Sugar wash

[packhorse]

I have done a couple of sugar/ tubro washes so far. (noobie)
Using my Copperhead reflux I get 92% which I am happy with.

But there is a flavor there that I dont really like. I guess its the taste of the wash coming through and its quite sweet.

Now I am well aware that the ultimate answer is to not use sugar and or turbo yeast. In that regard my next wash is sugar and a "Vodka yeast" and the next is malt extract, sugar and "vodka yeast" with an all grain and "cider yeast" wash ready to go too.

But can I fix what I have so far?

If I mix it down to 40% with water and re distill it will I get a better taste?
Are the flavors coming from the 8% that isnt ethanol or is the ethanol flavored?

At the mo I am mixing store bourbon with my product and coke. Its OK but not great.

[InglisHill]

Try something from the Tried and True section of the forums.

[still_stirrin]

Can you describe the taste?

You said sweet. Is there a solvent-like taste with it? That would be early heads, or even some of the foreshots (not good to drink). Does it have a "wet cardboard" taste? That would be the tails. Often all grain recipes push tail flavors through which can add complexity to the finished product.

Did you let the product air (breath off volatiles) for 24 hours? Those volatiles can burn your nose and even make your tongue tingle.

If you want assistance, please be descriptive. And add as much detail as you can: recipe, still type, OG, FG, proof/%ABV, etc.
ss

[packhorse]

Try something from the Tried and True section of the forums.

Try reading my post.

[packhorse]

Can you describe the taste?

You said sweet. Is there a solvent-like taste with it? That would be early heads, or even some of the foreshots (not good to drink). Does it have a "wet cardboard" taste? That would be the tails. Often all grain recipes push tail flavors through which can add complexity to the finished product.

Did you let the product air (breath off volatiles) for 24 hours? Those volatiles can burn your nose and even make your tongue tingle.

If you want assistance, please be descriptive. And add as much detail as you can: recipe, still type, OG, FG, proof/%ABV, etc.
ss

No solvent taste ( not that I taste solvents) or smell.
With the cuts I made I am pretty confident that my hearts bottle is free from heads. There may be some early tails in there though but it does not have any wet cardboard smell. Mind you, neither does the tails bottle.

Recipe was 3.5kgs dextrose 1.5kgs white sugar ( sucrose?) 1/2 pack of turbo yeast and 20 litres of water.
Still is a copper head reflux. 25 litre boiler, copper 2 inch reflex with ceramic saddles.

I have always found it hard to describe taste and smell so I cant be more specific than to say it smells sweeter that what I expected.


Anywho, my question seems like a simple one. If there are any off flavors, will redistilling it help to remove them assuming the fores and heads and tails are removed.
My thinking is that 92% is ethanol and 8% is water and flavoring from the wash. If its mixed with water and redistilled the amount of flavoring from the wash should be reduced. Is this how it works?

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

I know the taste you're talking about. And no you can't fix it. That taste is one of the reasons why turbo yeast is not liked.

[InglisHill]

You have a refluxing pot still with a small boiler charge, it will smear.

I read your post again, why not read mine again?

Tried and true section, you have not said you were following any of these, so why should I re read your post mate?

You are not making sense to me.

[NZChris]

You might have to drink it as it is. Your friends will give you a hard time if you show it off to them, so don't.

If it is really bad, dump it.

[packhorse]

You have a refluxing pot still with a small boiler charge, it will smear.

I read your post again, why not read mine again?

Tried and true section, you have not said you were following any of these, so why should I re read your post mate?

You are not making sense to me.

Because I asked a simple question and instead of trying answer it you suggest something that I had already said I would do. There for your reply was redundant and a waste of electron movement.

[packhorse]

You might have to drink it as it is. Your friends will give you a hard time if you show it off to them, so don't.

If it is really bad, dump it.

Thanks Chris,
No, its not really bad, just not really good.

Im hoping the next 3 different washes will provide 3 different results and help lead me in a better direction.

[packhorse]

I know the taste you're talking about. And no you can't fix it. That taste is one of the reasons why turbo yeast is not liked.

Yeah. as I said. it was my first wash/ washes. Already convinced not to use it again. Just wanting to know if it can be saved in some way like by a second destill.

[InglisHill]

Sorry mate, you lost me.

Totally.

I see no mention of the T&T in your post, which is what I had suggested. Perhaps, I will stop trying to understand and/or really giving a fuck.

Thanks for your reply, and, don't take anything I say too personaly.

[rad14701]

Now that you've succeeded in making nasty spirits with turbo yeast, and managed to piss off people trying to help you, it's time to slow down, do what we consider mandatory research, and use an actual Tried and True recipe... We'll keep reiterating this no matter how much you try defending yourself by trying to make it sound like we don't know what we're talking about... Remember, you're the noobie here by your own admission... When you post here you don't get a choice in the responses which might tell you what you need to hear, not what you may want to hear...

You can, and should, do better... It's up to you as to when and how... For a clean neutral spirit try Birdwatchers, All Bran, Death Wish Wheat Germ (DWWG), Gerber, or any of several other T&T sugar washes...

At least you aren't shooting for excessively high gravity washes, and that's a good thing...

[packhorse]

Look, I asked a specific question

But can I fix what I have so far?

I already realise the error of may ways using turbo yeast. I fully intend to try the tried and true recipes but that is not what my question was about. Im sorry if I pissed anyone off, but then perhaps they pissed me off by not answering the question and taking the thread in a different direction that had nothing to do with the primary question.

[NZChris]

Seems like your answer is ... if there was an easy fix, we would know about it and be doing it and you could have found it by searching the forum or consulting your supplier.

[packhorse]

Seems like your answer is ... if there was an easy fix, we would know about it and be doing it and you could have found it by searching the forum or consulting your supplier.

Thanks Chris. I guess all questions can be answered by searching the forum aye? So perhaps posting any question is a waste of time?

So my question now is why cant it be "fixed"
Now I get that the real fix is to do a proper wash ( from the T&T).

But why cant any wash be redistilled to get a cleaner taste?
If you have 90% ethanol 9% water and 1% other and the other is what is giving you your flavor, then why can you remix this with same volume of water. This will then give you a mix of 45% ethanol 54.5% water and 0.5% other. Distill this down to 90% and you get 90% ethanol 9.9% water and 0.1% other.
In theory a reduction of other to 10% of the original.
Or does it not work this way. Are the off flavors some how bonded to the ethanol?

No, I am not seeking the answer to continue to brew this way. Im simply trying to understand the science behind it more.

[googe]

I'm guessing your not getting a divined answer because not.many deal with turbos. I can't see why rerunning it wouldn't clean it up though!. No better way to find out than to just do it and yes the flavors shouldn't be doing from the eth, as far as im aware, pure eth is tasteless.

[NZChris]

Thanks Chris. I guess all questions can be answered by searching the forum aye? So perhaps posting any question is a waste of time?

That is not what I said, or inferred. When there is no answer forthcoming that you want to hear, and searches don't find one, consider the possibility that an answer you would like to have isn't in the forum. or the internet, or youtube, and you will have to look elsewhere. You might even be flogging a dead horse.

I've lit fires with my cockups. What are you going to do?

[Tal]

I have a reflux still too Packhorse and also have a pot still. The reflux strips flavour from your wash and the pot still doesn't. As you used turbo yeast I would say the taste you got is typical, you will notice a difference from your heads to your tails but only slight in my opinion. I don't consider putting it thru again will change things ...what you have is what you get...Now a pot still is what you need if you want great flavours. You will find plenty of recipes within these pages that you can choose to try. If the pot still isn't an option then try different yeasts...could be worth a try...good luck and enjoy...

[packhorse]

I've lit fires with my cockups. What are you going to do?

Perhaps I'll run my car off them!

I have a reflux still too Packhorse and also have a pot still. The reflux strips flavour from your wash and the pot still doesn't. As you used turbo yeast I would say the taste you got is typical, you will notice a difference from your heads to your tails but only slight in my opinion. I don't consider putting it thru again will change things ...what you have is what you get...Now a pot still is what you need if you want great flavours. You will find plenty of recipes within these pages that you can choose to try. If the pot still isn't an option then try different yeasts...could be worth a try...good luck and enjoy...

Thanks Tal,

Yeah, I am thinking that a pot still may soon be on the cards.

[shadylane]

packhorse
Redistilling will remove some of the flavors.
The more water that's used to dilute with, the cleaner and more neutral the spirit will be.
This is a common way to salvage drinkable alcohol from recipe or cuts mistakes.

[T-Pee]

"Shit in, shit out" is a common refrain here on HD you'll learn. If your ferment is good, the output should be as long as you make your cuts correctly, blend properly, age, oak, flavor, air out...aw hell. Nothing to it, is there?

tp

[rad14701]

Dilute down to anywhere between the original wash %ABV and 40% ABV and redistill... The more water, which is the best filter, the better... You'll get what you get...

[roberto188]

Little bit of carbon filtering will very easily remove that "sweet" taste your talking about. I built a carbon filter to remove the sweet aroma from my sugar wash vodak.Mine didn't have a sweet taste, I only had a slight aroma. BTW the smells and taste will come out MORE as you dilute closer to 40%. None the less, white sugar and tons of bakers yeasts (or some turbo) is a super cheap faster fermenting mash that can yield decent stuff (as long as you like it, that's all that really matters). A little bit of carbon filtering will take the sweet right out. People will say you're "cheating" but if it yields what you are after, who cares. IMO an easy mash with some filtering at the end is WAY more time/cost effective than slow fermenting a complicated/expensive mash. Now making something like a rum, you will definitely want to pay much more close attention to your mash and your fermentation, as that is what gives you the flavor. But for vodka, ferment it, pull it off (veeeery slowly), filter it and be done.

[roberto188]

Also, I'd recommend for a fast sugar ferment, just use 1lb of bakers yeast (cake) a tiny aquarium pump and an aquarium heater in your vessel. You can ferment 20lb of sugar in about 24 hours with it. My experience is the results are a bit better than the turbos. Just my 2 cents.

[T-Pee]

tp (short on words)

*edit* Thanks, rad.

[rad14701]

Also, I'd recommend for a fast sugar ferment, just use 1lb of bakers yeast (cake) a tiny aquarium pump and an aquarium heater in your vessel. You can ferment 20lb of sugar in about 24 hours with it. My experience is the results are a bit better than the turbos. Just my 2 cents.

OMG...!!! An air pump running in an actively fermenting wash...??? Have you actually researched how yeast work and what they do and don't need...??? I'm assuming you are referring to 20 pounds of yeast in 10 gallons of water with 1 pound of yeast... That isn't a recipe, that's a horror story... It's no wonder you need carbon filtering... Time to do some research rather than handing out bad advice...!!!

[roberto188]

OMG...!!! An air pump running in an actively fermenting wash...??? Have you actually researched how yeast work and what they do and don't need...??? I'm assuming you are referring to 20 pounds of yeast in 10 gallons of water with 1 pound of yeast... That isn't a recipe, that's a horror story... It's no wonder you need carbon filtering... Time to do some research rather than handing out bad advice...!!!

Firstly Rad, if you actually READ my post, you'd see I said an aquarium PUMP, not an aerator. The pump is used to circulate the heat from the aquarium heater not add AIR to the mash. The aquarium heater keeps the mash at a nice warm temp which allows the yeast to work faster. Also, I brew in my garage which right now is about 40F, so the aquarium pump and heater are essential.

Secondly, this method is not just mine but a recommended method by John Stone in his book Making Gin & Vodka. I've already mentioned, yes you can do other mashes with bran, and ferment slower etc but if you read the complete post, why spend more time or money on a more complicated wash when you can make a simple fast fermenting wash that is easily polished. It's a PREFERENCE!

So while I'm sure you do have a lot of great information to offer on this board, slow down, ACTUALLY READ what people post rather than making stuff up and recognize that while you can disagree with what people say, most of this entire process is preference, not objective right and wrong.

[rumBum2]

OMG...!!! An air pump running in an actively fermenting wash...??? Have you actually researched how yeast work and what they do and don't need...??? I'm assuming you are referring to 20 pounds of yeast in 10 gallons of water with 1 pound of yeast... That isn't a recipe, that's a horror story... It's no wonder you need carbon filtering... Time to do some research rather than handing out bad advice...!!!

Firstly Rad, if you actually READ my post, you'd see I said an aquarium PUMP, not an aerator. The pump is used to (pump air from outside your fermenter directly into your wash/mash.. completely backwards to the very basic's of fermenting. ) circulate the heat from the aquarium heater not add AIR to the mash. The aquarium heater keeps the mash at a nice warm temp which allows the yeast to work faster. Also, I brew in my garage which right now is about 40F, so the aquarium pump and heater are essential.

Secondly, this method is not just mine but a recommended method by John Stone in his book Making Gin & Vodka. I've already mentioned, yes you can do other mashes with bran, and ferment slower etc but if you read the complete post, why spend more time or money on a more complicated wash when you can make a simple fast fermenting wash that is easily polished. It's a PREFERENCE!

So while I'm sure you do have a lot of great information to offer on this board, slow down, ACTUALLY READ what people post rather than making stuff up and recognize that while you can disagree with what people say, most of this entire process is preference, not objective right and wrong.

[Kegg_jam]

Gotta admit I thought roberto meant an air pump too.

Makes sense to distribute the heat evenly but I'd have to think about sinking a pump in there to do it.

What the heck, I downloaded a copy of that Stone book to see what this is all about. Might as well add it to the reading material.