Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[rad14701]

What temperature did you pitch the yeast at...??? What temperature is the wash right now...??? What is the current SG...??? How much yeast in how much wash...??? See, we still have more questions than answers...

[canvasback88]

Pitched temp: 78 degrees F
Temp now: 75 Degrees F
Current SG: 1070
72 grams of yeast in five gallon wash

[hanon]

I would recommend using bakers yeast. From my experience distillers yeast is much slower. I did a 10 gallon sugar wash with an SG of 1.060. I used ~200g distillers yeast on 7.5 gallons and it barely moved in two days while the other 2.5 gallons of the same wash with bakers yeast was almost finished. I ended up throwing everything back together and pitching another 1/4 pound of bakers yeast on top of it. It finished two days later and ultimately made a great pot stilled vodka. Check your wash in 2-3 days, if it isn't below 1.030 I would say it's slow.

[canvasback88]

Just an update……looks like it takes about 48 hours for my wash to get started. Burping coming every 3-5 seconds. Thanks for your response hanon….gonna check the SG in the next few days as you suggested.

[Boozy25]

Hi everyone. I seem to be having problems with this and was hoping someone could help. I followed the recipe and had a starting SG of 1075. Two weeks later it's stopped bubbling and I have a SG of 1035 which I know is to high. Also it still tastes sweet. I have pitched some more yeast and it started bubbling fast again right away but slowed very quickly. About 2 hours later it's down to about a bubble every 10 seconds in the airlock. It may be ok know but I was wondering if maybe I didn't put enough DAP in? Could this be the reason it's stalled?

I used 50 grams of youngs active dried yeast to begin with (normally used for making wine I think). When I pitched more yeast I put in 30 more grams.

[rad14701]

Hi everyone. I seem to be having problems with this and was hoping someone could help. I followed the recipe and had a starting SG of 1075. Two weeks later it's stopped bubbling and I have a SG of 1035 which I know is to high. Also it still tastes sweet. I have pitched some more yeast and it started bubbling fast again right away but slowed very quickly. About 2 hours later it's down to about a bubble every 10 seconds in the airlock. It may be ok know but I was wondering if maybe I didn't put enough DAP in? Could this be the reason it's stalled?

I used 50 grams of youngs active dried yeast to begin with (normally used for making wine I think). When I pitched more yeast I put in 30 more grams.

Your experience is not isolated and is one of the reasons why I have no desire to try this particular recipe... The first two items to check would be pH and temperature... The wash should be in the 75F/24C - 85F/30C range... pH should be in the 5.2 range and no lower than the low 4's... Dipping into the 3's gets things too acidic and can damage or kill the yeast colony... Pitching more yeast without pH adjustment is just committing them to the same death sentence that the original yeast suffered...

[lampshade]

Pitching more yeast without pH adjustment is just committing them to the same death sentence that the original yeast suffered...

It helps to know that, during fermentation, yeast naturally give off acid, and so you will see the pH gradually drop. The pH will drop into the kill zone, unless you take measures to prevent that with a buffer or by adding alkaline chemicals during the fermentation. I suspect Rad doesn't like WPOSW because it provides no buffer.. Grains (and cereals) do buffer. Check out http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =14&t=9981

[Boozy25]

Thanks rad,
I guess I should buy a ph meter then. Probably is the problem as yeast seems to work for a little while then bubbling stops. Can't be the temperature as I keeping it within the range stated. Do you think it could have anything to do with nutrients? I read that you should use 60 grams of DAP per 20 litre of wash. Which is a lot more than it says to use in the recipe

[rad14701]

Thanks rad,
I guess I should buy a ph meter then. Probably is the problem as yeast seems to work for a little while then bubbling stops. Can't be the temperature as I keeping it within the range stated. Do you think it could have anything to do with nutrients? I read that you should use 60 grams of DAP per 20 litre of wash. Which is a lot more than it says to use in the recipe

You could also use the poor mans pH strips for testing as an option...

I'm not thrilled with the composition of the ingredients for this recipe which is why I haven't tried it... Sounds simple, but this recipe seems to have more failures than any other in the grand scheme of things... And that's because there is no source for all of the nutrients yeast require to remain healthy, which explains why the yeast get stressed and the wash becomes acidic... More DAP "might" help prevent this... Personally, I'd go with a more goof-proof and forgiving recipe... I don't consider WPOSW to be a recipe for beginners, for good reason...

[lampshade]

Thanks rad,
I guess I should buy a ph meter then.

A pH meter is needed to figure out what when wrong. You probably won't need a pH meter if you use a different recipe, as Rad suggests. Rad's All Bran is an excellent recipe, especially for beginners. Check out http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =14&t=9981

A word about pH strips. Many pH strips are intended for the swimming pool application. As such their pH range is limited to around 7, which is not applicable to fermentation, in which the pH often is in the 4-5 range.

[aladan]

I just finished this one today. I followed directions except for the gypsum. Here we're my notes.


Used distilled water. (Water around here is horrible)
Used 2 TSP. gypsum instead of 1. (I always use 2 TSP. per 6 GAL. Distilled water)
My PH was 4.6 I wanted 5 so I added 1/2 TSP. of calcium carbonate.
Adj. PH was 5.2
SG 1061
Hydrated bakers yeast, Pitched at 88 degrees
I use a car boy heater and kept at 77-82 degrees
After 7 days it stopped at an SG of 1.000
That's 7.89 %

Not to bad I think.

Can't wait to compare this to my turbo. wash hootch

[S-Cackalacky]

This is the first recipe I ever made - used it for my sac run. I haven't made it since, so I don't have a clue how it taste. I guess I was pretty lucky with that first run. As Rad has said on more than one occasion, it's probably not the best choice for a beginner. The root of the problem for most seems to be the water used. I guess mine must be good for this recipe, because that first ferment went well for me. I'm planning to set up another ferment of this. I want a good neutral to use for making a batch of gin. Because Wineo says it works well with a pot still, I thought it might be the go to recipe for my gin.

[Captb]

Going to set up a batch of this as my second ever batch hoping to get a good consumable product, I am going to use bakers yeast but am having trouble finding epsom salt. Can I use the type found in a pharmacy? what is its purpose?
Some have mentioned water being a factor in having this work properly, would distilled water make that difference?

[FullySilenced]

Good clean water... is the key... if it's over chlorinated just leave it out to air for a couple of days and the chlorine disapates.

No need for distilled water unless your in an area where extreme minerals or sulfur is in the water supply and may carry over.



Yes can buy epson salts at a pharmacy or most any of the discount houses... Kmart Walmart etc.

[S-Cackalacky]

Good clean water... is the key... if it's over chlorinated just leave it out to air for a couple of days and the chlorine disapates.

No need for distilled water unless your in an area where extreme minerals or sulfur is in the water supply and may carry over.



Yes can buy epson salts at a pharmacy or most any of the discount houses... Kmart Walmart etc.

I use well water and draw off what I use with a garden hose hooked up to a valve straight out of my pressure tank. It has some sulfur smell (hydrogen sulfide). Hydrogen sulfide is a gas in suspension in the water - much like chlorine gas in treated (city) water. I draw it off into buckets and let it air for a day before using it. I sometimes speed up the process by using a small air compressor to aerate it. After airing, the sulfur smell is gone. I have also used my well water after it goes through a conditioner and it works just as well, but then, I have to carry it down a flight of stairs in gallon jugs.

Anyway, the condition and composition of well water can vary from one location to another, so you would probably need to experiment with what you have. PH and the presence of undesirable minerals like iron would seem to be the biggest problems affecting this recipe. Water is an important ingredient because of some of the things it contains. I wouldn't recommend distilled water at all - most of the good stuff has been removed. Use store bought spring water instead if you have to go that route.

[shine406]

Made my first Wineos two weeks ago. Fallowed the recipe exactly and used my well water and superstart yeast. After the first week, the wash seemed to have stalled. It had only fermented 2% of the 8% potential. Checking into my well water as one of the variables I found that the current PH of the wash was 3.6 and water right out of my faucet is somewhere in the 5s. I tried to do some research on PH and I'm thinking that may be my problem? Instead of trying to adjust the PH (I'm not completely sure how) I pitched some bakers yeast. That was two days ago, it seems to be fermenting at a decent pace now, I haven't checked the SG yet. So I would love some opinions, is my superstart yeast bad? Or is my water to acidic? How can I adjust this recipe in the future?

[Galeoturpis]

Wineos sugar wash- This is for a 6 gallon wash. 8 pounds of sugar; 1 tsp of citric acid; 1 tsp of DAP; 1 tsp of gypsum; A pinch of epsom salts; 1/2 cup of bakers yeast

My Recipe for 24- 25 litres (which I have adapted from scientific yeast articles I have read but dropped the amount of DAP)
Sugar 250 mg/ l - about 6 kg
Protein - DAP  24 g gives you 200 mg/l FAN and 18 g makes 150  
Fat - 1 fish oil capsule or a ml of flax oil and a ml of sunflower oil &  anti-frothing detergent 
Minerals - potassium chloride 3g (1/2 tsp), calcium ( I use 1/2 tspn of lime or gypsum), magnesium (1/2 tspn of Epsom salts), 
Trace minerals - I add a vitamin tablet so that the zinc level is about 0.2 mg/l
Ultra trace elements - all the little things like selenium, vanadium etc which aren't present in Australian human  multivitamins but are essential. I use an animal vitamin called anitone (20 ml - 1 tbspn)
Vitamins - in addition to the vitamin pill I add extra pantothenate and biotin just to make sure that the levels are above- Biotin 5 mcg/ L, Pantothenate 500 mcg/l, Thiamine 600 mcg/l, Zinc 0.4 - 1 ppm ( mg/l)  (<0.05 or > 10 = toxic)
Titratable acidity - should be 0.5-1 g/l , so I24 g citric acid (15 ml) mixed with about the same amount of bicarbonate of soda in water and added to the wort after it has stopped fizzing. 
Bentonite 2g - add on day 2. 
Yeast - at least 3g per 24 litres.  (I have 10g bags) 

Comparison - I use a lot more DAP, vitamins, minerals and citrate and a lot less yeast.  I've not had a stuck ferment yet but probably only done 20 ferments with it.  If wineo's ferment fails, it's probably mainly due to a dud batch of yeast or poor dried yeast rehydration.  There's only enough DAP to grow 1g/l of yeast which will give a stuck fermentation. 

Room for improvement  on my recipe - inverting the sugar; trehalose addition; the fat addition might not be useful; ? Yeast hulls addition;I haven't properly calculated the pH estimation using Stewart and so the minerals and citrate/ tartaric acid might be off. 
I know it's a lot of extra little ingredients to buy but I also take most of the minerals (except the DAP and bicarb/citric acid) daily (in that same dosage) as a supplement. Cheaper than tablets.

[S-Cackalacky]

Made my first Wineos two weeks ago. Fallowed the recipe exactly and used my well water and superstart yeast. After the first week, the wash seemed to have stalled. It had only fermented 2% of the 8% potential. Checking into my well water as one of the variables I found that the current PH of the wash was 3.6 and water right out of my faucet is somewhere in the 5s. I tried to do some research on PH and I'm thinking that may be my problem? Instead of trying to adjust the PH (I'm not completely sure how) I pitched some bakers yeast. That was two days ago, it seems to be fermenting at a decent pace now, I haven't checked the SG yet. So I would love some opinions, is my superstart yeast bad? Or is my water to acidic? How can I adjust this recipe in the future?

The most recommended solution would be to add calcium carbonate to bring the PH up. In a pinch you could also use baking soda, but if used to much, it can add salts to the wash which can cause additional problems. A good way to buffer your wash is to add a handful of crushed oyster shells (from the feed store). Sea shells are basically calcium carbonate. As the PH goes down (acidic), the acid will react with the shells to raise the PH until there's a balance.

This recipe seems to be notorious for PH problems - mostly associated with water.

[shine406]

I will definitely be ordering some calcium carbonate. but next time I try this wash, considering my water is slightly acidic, should I leave the citric acid out? or does it play a larger roll in this recipe?

[hanon]

If your water is that acidic, definitely leave the citric acid out. Most water is alkaline. 3.6 is a good pH to invert sugar, but an ideal pH for a wash is between 5-6.

[wayne1776]

This is my very first attempt at a wash. I multiplied everything by 4 to make a total wash of 24g. Total bakers yeast came out to 2 cups. Was this way too much? i had a SG of 1.075, and after 4 days it is now below 1.00. That seems like it fermented way to fast. The temp has been in the mid 70's(F) all week. Should i give it a few more days to clear then do a stripping run, then a reflux run?

one more thing. I may have messed up because after I dissolved all the sugar and other ingredients, I added enough cold water to my fermenter to get a SG of 1.075 and I don't think it came out to 24 gallons. The instructions say add enough water to make 6 gallons, which would be 24g for me. Should i have added enough water to make exactly 24 gallons, then check SG? What if my SG is to high or low, do i need to adjust it, or should it be pretty dang close to what is stated in the instructions?

[Haus]

Dumb kid question, did some reading but no real clear cut answer, at least to me anyway.
First attempt at this recipe and getting near the time to run it.
I built my boiler for optional heads, 1: 16" column to Liebig, 2: 16" column to thumper to Liebig.
Which one makes the most sense for the first run and in what order if I were to use both for multiple runs?

[rad14701]

Dumb kid question, did some reading but no real clear cut answer, at least to me anyway.
First attempt at this recipe and getting near the time to run it.
I built my boiler for optional heads, 1: 16" column to Liebig, 2: 16" column to thumper to Liebig.
Which one makes the most sense for the first run and in what order if I were to use both for multiple runs?

This recipe is really best suited for refluxing for neutral spirits... That being said, I'd be inclined to so a fast stripping run without the thumper and then at least one spirit run of low wines diluted to 40%, or even down to 30% or lower...

Done properly, you should be able to wind up with fairly clean spirits that need little or no further dilution... Check out the pot still calculators on the parent site for more on this concept... When pot stilling, what goes in the boiler has a direct impact on what comes out...

[Haus]

Thanks Rad,
I think I can file this under standard process for neutrals for the hardware I have.
no thumper: Strip it, dilute it, spirit.

[whistlewetter]

I am here to second the oyster shells. I made four 5 gallon batches all of which stalled. One didn't even ferment past 1.04. The other 3 made it down between 1.01 and 1.02 after 7 days. I made three more batches on this past Saturday. I did everything the same way except I added a handful of oyster shells to each bucket. Within three days, two batches are below 1.0 and are dry, the other is 1.0 with just a tad of sweetness left. The ONLY difference this time around were the shells.

[S-Cackalacky]

Might also try whole shells. The last ferment I did I used some scallop shells about 3.5 inches in diameter. When I removed the wash from the ferment buckets, I pulled the shells out, rinsed them off and will reuse them in the next ferment. I bought them in an aquarium shop for something like 25 cents each. Point is - most any kind of sea shell will work.

[Kegg_jam]

I got a bag of sea shells at the dollar store when picking up some marbles.

They work really good.

[Haus]

I must have gotten lucky. Everything exactly as the op stated. 1.070 start and .995 after 7 days. Let it clear and we'll see what happens.

[Haus]

Made the stripping run this morning and have to say I am quiet pleased.
First let me say Thanks to all that answered all my noob questions! I applied them all and things went so much smoother.
Pitch 200ml to start, will pitch a bit more on the spirit run.
Jar 1 120-110
Jar 2 110-100 - Tasty as is
Jar 3 100-80
Jar 4 80-50
Knowing I was going to do a spirit run, I just saved to QT jars but jar 2 is the best I have ever made.
Funny how much you think you know and yet how far from the truth you are.
Again, Thanks

[Stijepovic]

So I made the mistake of using 16.6 pounds of sugar instead of what was recommend. All my other ingredients are the same and I used a half a cup of bakers yeast. What will be the outcome?