New to the Still

[gmac982]

Hey Y'all,

I'm Geoff, new to this whole distilling thing. I made my first still a few weeks back and currently have my first sweet feed mash going now. I've set up a 5 gallon operation, and am looking forward to running the first still.

I added a thumper to my set up, and I have two questions for the more experienced folks out there.

1. What can you run in your thumper if its your first batch and you don't have anything from a previous run to add to it?

2. How did y'all prime your system before you use it? I want to make sure I'm cleaning out everything from my build. I've heard vinegar and water mix, any experience?

Thanks!
Geoff

[Halfbaked]

Welcome Geoff. Glad you found us. Before we get to ur question let me tell you that keeping you safe is our number 1 priority. It sounds like you have not done much reading and are on about 8 and skipped 1-7. If I am wrong please accept my apology. First you should have already read the link into signature called cranky a spoon feeding. Second I would post a pic of your still to be sure it is safe. I'd say 75% of the stills I see from someone that just starts are unsafe in the materials they used to put it together. Nothing personal to u but if you do this don't take anything personal if the coments are not what you were hoping. First thing you need is only copper or stainless and Teflon are safe if it touches vapor or liquid. There is a 3 step method of cleaning your still. If none of these things are familiar you should not run your still. On to your question, you can put water in the thumper or your wash in it. Happy still in and don't take any short cuts. Your drop will thank you.

[Bigbob]

+1 Halfbaked! Geoff run,don't walk over to crankys post and read it all. It will answer all your questions that you have now,and most you don't even know you have! Take your time, your sweet feed will wait for you. Make sure you understand the whole process. The cleaning is critical, again welcome to the forums! Enjoy!

[HDNB]

Geoff, if you don't take halfbaked's advise and read the spoonfeeding thread...take Bigbob's advise and read it.

Bigbob LIKES HIS SWEETFEED! and knows what he's talking about.

[GrassHopper]

Double on what these guys just said! You won't believe the color of your first liquid that comes out of your system. Mine was a muddy greyish brown on the first vinegar/water run. I ran 50/50. Then on the sacrificial run it was better but still not clean. Then on the all water run it was pretty good. Of course this is all preliminary stuff that is basic knowledge and should be understood before you start your ferment. Your ferment will wait.....time to clean house, read, read, read and then you'll find your answers.
Oh by the way, welcome.
Enjoy the hobby

[gmac982]

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate the input. I've done quite a bit of research, but always looking for more information.

I've attached a picture of my current set up. Please note, this was just to show you the equipment. I won't be running the still in it's current position or in my garage - I've got a large private backyard, and a table I've set up. I have the last pot on the bucket just for the pictures sake.

The pots are all stainless steel, along with the connection tubes and the thumper. The worm is copper, as is the parrot.

Thanks!

[HDNB]

I've done quite a bit of research, but always looking for more information.
Thanks!

i guess you already know the take off is small bordering on dangerous and the thumper and the flake stand are too small for the boiler size.

if you choose to run it be *very* careful not to allow anything into the boiler that could plug the output and be very wary of puking it.

you got the gist of it for sure, now just biggy size a few things and your set. get a bigger boiler, say 10-13gal milk can? , use the 5 gallon you have now as the thump. 2" copper isn't that expensive so use that between the two and then make a nice easy, inexpensive 3/4 over 1/2 liebig for your PC.

use the little pots for oatmeal or something.

[Danespirit]

Welcome in Geoff..
The guys have already given you the best advices to keep you safe on your way.
The thumper on your current setup, is a bit on the small side.
It should be in the ballpark of 1/4 to 1/3 the size of your boiler.
Also the worm won't cool much, without constantly feeding it with cold water.
Like HDNB pointed out, the output is a bit small...please don't distill anything with solids in there..!! (if it cloggs up..you are in trouble!)
Bet you are already reading the link you were pointed to...it will give you some answers..

Have fun and stay safe..

[pfshine]

I think you meant 1/3-1/2 the capacity of your boiler.

[gmac982]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the feedback.

HDNB, any pictures/plans of what this would look like? "make a nice easy, inexpensive 3/4 over 1/2 liebig for your PC."

Thanks again!

[pfshine]

Just go to the top right of the page. Type leibig into the box and hit enter. There is plenty of info on them all over. Lots of pics. More research is needed on your side to ensure a happy and safe hobby for you.

[Danespirit]

I think you meant 1/3-1/2 the capacity of your boiler.

Yes..sorry for the typo..good catch Pfshine..

[HDNB]

liebig http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =87&t=9247

have you found the board index? i read this place for 3 months before i realized there was an index....i remember thinking "what a great idea!" http://homedistiller.org/forum/index.php
(no one accused me of being the sharpest knife in the drawer!)

there is a whole section for your type of equipment http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=16

[sltm1]

First, welcome to what is the best site on the net for all aspects of hobby distilling. +1 on what everyone else said, but I can add on the first thumper liquid. I've been told that running straight water will diminish the alcohol content, but have never done it so don't know for sure. I would recommend getting some cheap vodka to keep the alcohol form being leached away. I have a 6 gal still with a 3 gallon thumper and I put one quart of 150 proof (a mix of heads and tails), and one quart of water in it to start. This just barely covers my "L" shaped bubble bar and enhances the alcohol out put quite well. That being said, also remember it's important to have the outlet of the pipe from the boiler under the surface of what ever you're using in the thumper.

[gmac982]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for the advice. I did my first run this past weekend. I learned a ton, and also came away with a lot more questions. Overall, I got 3 quarts from the run, not nearly as much as I should have, but I have a bunch of takeaways which should produce more next time. I have a few questions from the run, I was hoping you vets could weigh in on.

1. How much are you putting in the boiler? I'm not sure if I just put too much in. Before turning on the heat I had about two inches between the top of the liquid and the lid. Right when I started to get my first drips (about 20 mins in from boiler start), my lid came apart (the seal buffer fell just barely off the lid, causing the pressure to release and tons of liquid and steam to come out the side). I was able to put it back on, but I had to virtually restart. Any advice for amount of liquid and space below the lid? Also, Any advice for preventing a future blow out?


2. The product I produced was yellowish, the same color as the mash. My hydrometer had it at 50-80 proof after ditching the foreshots, but all of the liquid was the same color as the mash. It burns blue, tastes like shine, but looks like shit... My thump liquid (started off with water) also turned to the mash color. Any idea of what I may be doing wrong here?

3. As you'll see from my still picture, my temperature gage is run through the lid of the boiler. Halfway through the run it just seemed to be stuck around 92 celcius. At this point I adjusted the temperature and it still read the same. I decided to stop at this point, and when I took the lid off I noticed that the gage was caked in mash parts. I filtered the mash with a brewers bag, but apparently I didn't filter it enough. Any pieces of advice on how to prevent this, or perhaps where to relocate my thermometer?

Thanks!

[pfshine]

Wow. Just put the brakes on for a minute. There is so many things wrong with what happened and what you said. Just stop for a little bit and read more. Alot more. A whole lot more. I'm guessing you didn't listen to the advice given to you on this page. Look for and read crankys post, a little spoon feeding. I'm not trying to be an ass but this almost ended badly for you and my hobby.

[HDNB]

Ok, once more for the learning impaired.


the take off is small bordering on dangerous and the thumper and the flake stand are too small for the boiler size.

be *very* careful not to allow anything into the boiler that could plug the output and be very wary of puking it.

now: just biggy size a few things and your set. get a boiler, say 10-13gal milk can? , use the 5 gallon you have now as the thump. 2" copper isn't that expensive so use that between the two and then make a nice easy, inexpensive 3/4 over 1/2 liebig for your PC.

use the little pots for oatmeal or something.

Of course i'm just giving you a rub with the opening sentence, but the rest is deadly (as in boom, followed by fire) serious. no more screwing around. read and ask some questions before you get hurt.

cheers.

[rad14701]

We had pretty much covered the downfalls of that rig and now you have realized that we knew what we were talking about... Now is the time to stop all activities and do ample amounts of what we consider mandatory research... You came away unharmed, this time, by not heeding warnings about component sizes but don't push your luck any further... We want you to be both safe and successful...

[Halfbaked]

What Rad said +1 I like your burner I like your parrot. Your pot might be OK but the pic is so small I can't tell. The min size copper should be 1/2. It looks like you are connecting with braided stainless. Id say you have rubber in them. I could be wrong. The only thing that needs to tough vapor and liquid is stainless or copper. A liebig would be a great idea for you.. I am still back to what I said in the first post.... YOU need to stop what you are doing and read the link. I told you in the first post your drop will thank you for you reading .. It just did. Safety first then good drop is what we are after.

[bearriver]

Welcome to the boards. I think you have a good idea now how these forums are structured, which isn't by mistake. The methods of which to attain information here have a proven track record in both safety and success. That is what it is all about anyway... Individuals are then free to choose to take it or leave it.

Have fun, stay safe, and enjoy your journey.

Edit: I'm with HB. Among other concerns, my immediate one is for the possibility of synthetics in your plumbing.

[sltm1]

Man, if you don't pay attention to the advise given here you could be our first "Suicide By Negligence". Stop, read, re-read, you've got years of experience here at your fingertips! I've only been doing this for several years but there are many members with way more knowledge than I can offer, no point to reinventing the wheel as the saying goes. BE SAFE !!! And again, incase you missed the advice in previous posts.....read crankys post found at the bottom of my post!!

[MooseKnuckle]

I'll elaborate a little on what happened as well. You overfilled with kind of dirty wash, maybe not bad to look at but when it started heating, you got clumps of crap in it. Your boiler foamed up and puked into your thump, causing thump liquid to turn mash colour.

Your thump, being too small, overfilled and dumped into the condenser rather than actually re-distilling the liquid. This is why it came out the end the same colour.

I assume that it was your first wash run through the still as well, since you said you did your first run and didn't say anything about doing a sacrificial run. This is where you have already done the water and vinegar cleaning runs, and then you run some wash (sugar wash, nasty cheap wine, anything you don't want) through the still and THROW IT OUT. Because that first run will leach toxins out of the metals and into the alcohol that comes out...

You would know all this quite quickly if you did the research that was placed right in your lap. I could be wrong, only you know exactly what you did, but it doesn't sound like you did any of the stuff you should have.

DO NOT DRINK THE PRODUCT unless of course, you simply forgot to mention that you did do the cleaning runs, and unless a couple people here are wrong in assuming that those stainless lines are braided (which will contain rubber). It's a small pic, but I believe it does kind of look like a solid stainless line bent into shape and not the rubber-laced braided stainless lines. IF they are solid stainless lines and not the braided type, you still need to be sure that there is absolutely no rubber or silicone or whatever isn't Teflon in the form of O-rings or seals or whatever.

If all of that stuff is safe, then go ahead and drink the next batch but be extremely careful not to fill the pot anywhere near the top and filter the S#^%$^ out of whatever wash you put in there to avoid clogging. Use flour paste for the lid and some clamps and it shouldn't come apart. The size of your condenser lines will put an extreme limit on the speed at which your product comes out, even besides being unsafe, so you WILL get sick of it and wish you made it bigger anyway. I made a 7.5 gal pot with a 2 gal thump got sick of it after a few batches and built a 13 gal pot with 7.5 gal thump.

The advice you're receiving is perfectly spot on, and everyone here is simply trying to keep you safe and happy with your new hobby. The reading is worth it. The little bit of extra investment in that still is also worth it. I can make 4 times the product in 1/2 the time compared to my first still, it cleans easier afterwards and is easier to set up run.

I suggest you look at some of the beer keg builds on the site (after the spoon feeding thread), and electric is always safer in my opinion than gas especially in the type of situation where your lid opens, like you had happen during your first run. Much less chance of boom, much easier to control as well.

[Bobdoe]

..."my lid came apart (the seal buffer fell just barely off the lid, causing the pressure to release and tons of liquid and steam to come out the side). I was able to put it back on, but I had to virtually restart. Any advice for amount of liquid and space below the lid? Also, Any advice for preventing a future blow out?

Hey
You're getting a lot of good advice. I wanted to stress that our stills should not be under pressure. You have been told that the tube leading out of the boiler is too small and was probably plugged. What I want to make sure is that you know the serious ramifications of this; any restrictions will lead to a build-up of pressure. Bad news. The way to avoid a "blow out" is to NOT build up any pressure. This can be extremely dangerous. Flammable vapors, pressure, and open flames can be disastrous and this hobby does not need bad press.
Sincerely
Bd

[Danespirit]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for the advice. I did my first run this past weekend. I learned a ton, and also came away with a lot more questions. Overall, I got 3 quarts from the run, not nearly as much as I should have, but I have a bunch of takeaways which should produce more next time. I have a few questions from the run, I was hoping you vets could weigh in on.

1. How much are you putting in the boiler? I'm not sure if I just put too much in. Before turning on the heat I had about two inches between the top of the liquid and the lid. Right when I started to get my first drips (about 20 mins in from boiler start), my lid came apart (the seal buffer fell just barely off the lid, causing the pressure to release and tons of liquid and steam to come out the side). I was able to put it back on, but I had to virtually restart. Any advice for amount of liquid and space below the lid? Also, Any advice for preventing a future blow out?


2. The product I produced was yellowish, the same color as the mash. My hydrometer had it at 50-80 proof after ditching the foreshots, but all of the liquid was the same color as the mash. It burns blue, tastes like shine, but looks like shit... My thump liquid (started off with water) also turned to the mash color. Any idea of what I may be doing wrong here?

3. As you'll see from my still picture, my temperature gage is run through the lid of the boiler. Halfway through the run it just seemed to be stuck around 92 celcius. At this point I adjusted the temperature and it still read the same. I decided to stop at this point, and when I took the lid off I noticed that the gage was caked in mash parts. I filtered the mash with a brewers bag, but apparently I didn't filter it enough. Any pieces of advice on how to prevent this, or perhaps where to relocate my thermometer?

Thanks!

You should really take the advice given by other members in here...if you just proceed, it will end up in a disaster..!
Two inches from the lid..? The advice would be: DO NEVER EVER fill your boiler with that much liquid....hence the yellow "distillate".
It's not distillate, your boiler puked all into your condenser..!
Also as i wrote...your thumper is way too tiny..
Forget about that thermometer...rip it out and stomp on it..!
Your whole run went into a half way manageble disaster, rendering your product worthless and you as a very lucky guy, because nothing worse happened.
Please do not proceed, until you got some basic knowledge we consider mandatory for operating a still safely. (the link in my signature will help you).
I don't even like to think about what would happen if you run a spiritrun on that thing, and the liquid squirts all over the place...

[Mikey-moo]

Howdy Geoff. Welcome to the forum. The guys above my post have given you some excellent advice. I hope you have the sense to take it.

Good luck to you

[pfshine]

I think the dog pile is over or should be anyway.

[HDNB]

geez, didn't mean to start anything, that line was tongue in cheek...havin' ya on kinda fun...

seriously though, you gotta look at keeping yourself alive/ the steam you are talking about is flammable ethanol vapour and is serious as a heart attack if a flame finds it!!

just want you to stay safe and have some fun!

[gmac982]

Thanks, y'all. I appreciate the feedback. Especially MooseKnuckle, it's good to know what went wrong and how to fix it.

A few quick things.

1. I did run a sacrificial and cleaning run before doing this one. During those runs, everything went smoothly, just enough to give you some false confidence!
2. The stainless steel is indeed all solid stainless steel, no rubber or anything.
3. I have read the spoon feed, and I appreciate the reiteration here, I'll go back and read it again now that I have a real example to compare to.

Some questions.

1. Does anyone have a recommendation for a thermometer? Do any of you go digital?
2. I'm looking at switching from gas to electric. Is there an issue with induction heating with my stainless steel pot? I will be upgrading the boiler as well. Milk jugs are pretty hard to come by.

Thank you.

[Mikey-moo]

You see... You say you've done the reading and we believe you, we really do, right up to the point when you ask for recommendations for a thermometer for your pot still.

You can't run a pot still by temperature no matter what youtube has shown you. Reflux still? Yes ok. But again not on the boiler.

I use induction on my setup as I don't like the idea of open flames in the house. It works ok at 800W and higher. Below that it cycles on and off and smears the product. You need an induction compatible pot though, if you don't have one already...

[MooseKnuckle]

check it with a magnet if it sticks to the bottom of the pot it should work. And I did kind of use thermometers in my first one, one in the boiler's column and on on top of the thump, they DO serve a purpose for newbs to get the confirmation that the thump is actually working, and provide a bit of a visual indication as well, but aren't something to use as a guideline for making cuts. Pretty much useless once you get the hang of things. All I did was drill a little hole and shove a little meat thermometer into it with some flour paste. But seriously, you don't need one.