Just finished my first build

[slowNlow86]

I wasn't gonna post this until I got it all purdy'd up, but I'm just too excited to share with y'all. Plus I'm kind of digging the pitina look.... The inside has been scrubbed out, though. It's 100% copper with a 10gal boiler, a 3'x2" column with a 2' long 3/4-1/2" Liebig condenser. About 6' tall in total. It's basically a clawhammer supply clone. I reverse engineered their design based on what was on their site and some simple math. I made the column 2" instead of 1-1/2" and a little taller. I've never soldered before in my life... I haven't ran any of the "big 3's" yet. I literally just finished it. Hell, the metal is still warm! Any feed back is gladly welcomed. I have been reading everything I can on this site for going on a year now while planning and saving my pennies. I decided to build my own instead of buying one because I could save $100+, stay off the TTB watch list, and I have much more pride in knowing that this is something I created. I went with the 2" column instead of the 1-1/2" clawhammer design based on what I have read here. (1-1/2" min, but 2" is better) and made the column a little taller too. I have enough stuff left over to build a reflux column when I'm ready for that. What do y'all think? My biggest concern is whether or not the Liebig is gonna be big enough. Think I should of gone 1"- 3/4"? Edit: forgot to attach an image, but the uploader isn't wanting to work... Here's a link: http://i.imgur.com/J3XYKAi.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Halfbaked]

I can't wait to see it.

[shadylane]

Sounds good. The 2" X 3' riser could make a good future column.
The 2' long 3/4-1/2" Liebig condenser is kinda short but with enough water flow it will work.
You've built one still, the next will be better.

[slowNlow86]

I can't wait to see it.

Edited post to add an image. Sorry.

[pfshine]

How you gonna fill it? The cap looks soldered on. Unless the cone isn't soldered. If that is the case it's gonna be a pita to use if it don't just fall off.

[slowNlow86]

The column and boiler separate above the vapor cone. Just needs a little flour paste to seal 'er up. I can post an image of the two pieces seperated if anyone wants to see it.

[FreeMountainHermit]

We wanna see it. Post 'er up there friend.

[pfshine]

Could ya I'm cornfused. It all looks soldered except the cone

[slowNlow86]

Here ya go. The cap at the bottom of the column is tapered. It wedges into the collar above the vapor cone then gets sealed up with flour paste during operation. She ain't pretty, but she's mine! Haha

http://i.imgur.com/NAyMDwy.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[FreeMountainHermit]

She ain't pretty, but she's mine

Kinda like havin'a fat chick on the back of yer bike.

It's all good till someone sees ya with her.

[pfshine]

It should make you a fine drop.

[john2674]

Feels great finishing your first still huh! Only thing that I noticed is the output is right above the boiler, it will work but make darn sure no likker spills onto your heat source.

[john2674]

Or maybe you have an extension going on that 45?

[stilldistillin]

condenser is fine. I have a 3/4 over 1/2 libeig on my still and it's about 30"... nothing gets through that sucker.

[slowNlow86]

Or maybe you have an extension going on that 45?

That's exactly what's going there. I need to get a coupler, first. I was gonna use the remaining 2' or so of 1/2" to bring it out to my collection vessel. I haven't decided if I want too solder that extension piece in or just leave it a "push in" connection to make for easy storage... Thoughts?

[pfshine]

You need to solder it right there or it will leak booze. Put a union on it so it's detachable

[stilldistillin]

Big fan of unions and screw attachments. Breakdown of a still should be easy and make for easy storage.

[still_stirrin]

Yeh, I'd stick a union between the two elbows in the vapor take off line so you can cant the Leibig at a 45* angle, or so. It'll help stabilize the product when condensing. Plus, when you do that you won't need such a long column for your potstill. The column does nothing for you other than geometry. Swinging the Leibig up will allow you to use a shorter column.

Planning ahead...a way to add column for a reflux head might be good forethought as well. But you need to research the different types of reflux managed heads and determine which you'd like.

In the meantime, the potstill will get you to "the cuts". Practice, practice, practice. And don't forget your cleaning runs....lest you "contract the runs".

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss

[stilldistillin]

The column does nothing for you other than geometry.

I noticed you mentioned potstill mode just before this, but the column allows for a vapour fraction build-up if he built any sort of reflux system on later. Solid design for more additions later. Also the column provides passive reflux if not insulated and he controls the input heat correctly.

[slowNlow86]

Also the column provides passive reflux if not insulated and he controls the input heat correctly.

I can pack the column with copper pot scrubbers to get a little more passive reflux too. As far as a real reflux column, I was planning to build basically the same design with the cap that wedges into the vapor cone only I wouldn't have a Liebig, obviously. This way i can have both styles and easily interchange them. I like the boka design, but a reflux column is still in the distant future for me. I want to get the basics down solid before I step up to the major leagues.

[still_stirrin]

Also the column provides passive reflux if not insulated and he controls the input heat correctly.

I can pack the column with copper pot scrubbers to get a little more passive reflux too. As far as a real reflux column, I was planning to build basically the same design with the cap that wedges into the vapor cone only I wouldn't have a Liebig, obviously. This way i can have both styles and easily interchange them. I like the boka design, but a reflux column is still in the distant future for me. I want to get the basics down solid before I step up to the major leagues.

I disagree. What condensation you'll get (during heat up maybe) will run back down the column walls, not through the pacing core, which is what causes reflux rarification/separation.

To be effective with reflux, you need a true reflux condenser at the top of the column causing the condensing vapors to collapse and fall back into the rising vapors. With condensing, revaporizing and recondensing (again and again), you get the purification of the alcohols.

Thinking a potstill works, or can work in a reflux mode is delusional.
ss

[NcGunny]

At first I thought it was a modified Clawhammer kit..(btw..I do like his stuff) I even received one for a birthday present when he was still in NC. Looks decent though,although I am not a fan of the attachment. Cant really see by the pic,but I would.take some flat copper and solder it to the inside edge of the top cap. It will allow a press fit of ur column into the neck. Would definately keep the patina look.but ditch the green...nice job bud.

[Bobdoe]

It's beautiful! The elegance is its simplicity. And it looks sorta like mine!
Bd

[Bobdoe]

Or maybe you have an extension going on that 45?

That's exactly what's going there. I need to get a coupler, first. I was gonna use the remaining 2' or so of 1/2" to bring it out to my collection vessel. I haven't decided if I want too solder that extension piece in or just leave it a "push in" connection to make for easy storage... Thoughts?

I have essentially the same still, and I just friction fit the extension piece when I use the still. It's a very tight fit, but I also add a little duct tape to ensure it doesn't fall off. I'd not want distillate dripping on my heat source! And this part of the output never gets warm (the Liebig is very efficient!).
Bd

[Bobdoe]

What condensation you'll get (during heat up maybe) will run back down the column walls, not through the pacing core, which is what causes reflux rarification/separation. To be effective with reflux, you need a true reflux condenser at the top of the column causing the condensing vapors to collapse and fall back into the rising vapors. With condensing, revaporizing and recondensing (again and again), you get the purification of the alcohols.
Thinking a potstill works, or can work in a reflux mode is delusional.
ss

Hi Still_stirrin- I think I've read your comments about this on other threads but this is the first time I understand the problem about how just packing a column with scrubbers does not a reflux column make. But I have a question, because I was certainly under the impression that packing a column like the one slowNlow86 has can give at least a little reflux, more than that same column with no packing. If the column is packed tightly (BUT, not so tightly that any pressure builds up) wont some of the condensate run through the packing? Especially if the column is as perfectly vertical as possible and the distillation rate is relatively slow?
I guess I'm hoping you'll say that I'm getting a least a little reflux with copper scrubbers in the column of my pot still (man, I had to drive all over looking for all copper ones!)
Thanks, ss
bd

[slowNlow86]

What condensation you'll get (during heat up maybe) will run back down the column walls, not through the pacing core, which is what causes reflux rarification/separation. To be effective with reflux, you need a true reflux condenser at the top of the column causing the condensing vapors to collapse and fall back into the rising vapors. With condensing, revaporizing and recondensing (again and again), you get the purification of the alcohols.
Thinking a potstill works, or can work in a reflux mode is delusional.
ss

Hi Still_stirrin- I think I've read your comments about this on other threads but this is the first time I understand the problem about how just packing a column with scrubbers does not a reflux column make. But I have a question, because I was certainly under the impression that packing a column like the one slowNlow86 has can give at least a little reflux, more than that same column with no packing. If the column is packed tightly (BUT, not so tightly that any pressure builds up) wont some of the condensate run through the packing? Especially if the column is as perfectly vertical as possible and the distillation rate is relatively slow?
I guess I'm hoping you'll say that I'm getting a least a little reflux with copper scrubbers in the column of my pot still (man, I had to drive all over looking for all copper ones!)
Thanks, ss
bd

Been thinking about this since I read SS's reply this morning... Im not sure where the theory behind packing the column with scrubbers came from, but I have definitely read it in several places. But now that I think about the science of distillation, specifically condensation, the only way to cause the distillate to condensate (creating the reflux we are after) is to cool is below its boiling point. The column being cool can cause that for a bit until it warms up, same with the scrubbers. I think the idea behind the scrubbers is that it will cause more surface area for the distillate to cling to. Now that I think about it, though, I realize that's only going to work until everything warms up. Once the scrubbers are warm, they are going to be worthless. So, back to what SS was saying, it will only work in the beginning. I think I was under the misconception that having the column packed would cause more friction and somehow magically create passive reflux. After considering the science, I realize I was mistaken.

[still_stirrin]

...this is the first time I understand the problem about how just packing a column with scrubbers does not a reflux column make. But I have a question, because I was certainly under the impression that packing a column like the one slowNlow86 has can give at least a little reflux, more than that same column with no packing. If the column is packed tightly (BUT, not so tightly that any pressure builds up) wont some of the condensate run through the packing? Especially if the column is as perfectly vertical as possible and the distillation rate is relatively slow?

Well, maybe be a little condensation back down the column will occur. But "reflux" is the boiling/condensing/reboiling fractionation of the spirit's vapor and I doubt much of that will (actually) happen in a "stuffed" potstill riser.

As the still comes "online" the temperature of the hardware (column) is still cooler than the vapor, so some condensation will occur, especially on the uninsulated riser. But as the boil progresses, the heat will transfer more vapors up the column and the column itself will heat up to the gradient of operation.

...I guess I'm hoping you'll say that I'm getting a least a little reflux with copper scrubbers in the column of my pot still (man, I had to drive all over looking for all copper ones!)

You may have a "partial theoretical plate" resulting from a (tall) column stuffed with SPP or possibly copper scrubbies. I would doubt that even SS scrubbies would be effective at transferring the heat radially out to the shell enough to cause condensation for reflux. But most of the energy in the vapor is continuing to rise up the column.

It would actually be more effective just to "blast through" your strip run and come back to the still for a spirit run, using a reflux still if desired, or a 2nd pass through the potstill (which would potentially raise your product to 160/180 proof). Thumpers serve that same "doubler" duty.

Stick a reflux condenser above the column and the whole story changes. You can easily get to neutral quality with a good low wines charge.

Now, you can detune a reflux still head to run in "modified" potstill operation. But it is exceedingly difficult to enhance a potstill to accomplish successful reflux operations. Sorry to be the bearer of such news.

What I'm telling you guys is nothing new. It has been asked and answered many times on this forum. But potstill operation has its virtues, i.e. - carryover of flavor constituents. Use it that way and all is well.
ss

[still_stirrin]

....Now that I think about it, though, I realize that's only going to work until everything warms up. Once the scrubbers are warm, they are going to be worthless. So, back to what SS was saying, it will only work in the beginning. I think I was under the misconception that having the column packed would cause more friction and somehow magically create passive reflux. After considering the science, I realize I was mistaken.

The "ah ha" moment of science! Well stated slowNlow86.
ss

p.s. - you posted while I was drafting a follow up, which ironically states exactly what you just did.

[stilldistillin]

I think I was under the misconception that having the column packed would cause more friction and somehow magically create passive reflux. After considering the science, I realize I was mistaken.

I'm trying to stay out of this conversation because I know the general consensus around here is that they won't cause passive reflux. If you say anything more or suggest temperature as a control, the old timers like to hang you from the ceiling and call you a witch.

But the truth of the matter is, when there is a large column, with or without scrubbers, there will be passive reflux if you apply a low amount of heat. I have experimented greatly with this in my own columns. How else can you get 75% out of a potstill from a 10% wash? It's possible with a large column and no reflux condenser, I've done it myself.

I know people here aren't chemistry majors, so I'll explain what happens:

When no inline reflux condenser is available on the still head, the vapour rises up through the column to the top. If the column is big enough and the heat applied to the boiler is low enough, the column will experience a temperature gradient. In essence, it will be hotter on the bottom of the column and cooler on the top because of the air cooling it.

Now, remember that the vapour is a mixture of different molecules. Some of those molecules don't have the energy to travel all the way up the column and remain in a gas form. Such as H2O. H2O requires a ton of energy to make it all the way up that temperature gradient column. A lot of it will drop out and back down the column, making your distillate more pure. Yes, this is reflux of the H2O and less volatile molecules, and also contributes to fractional distillation. The more volatile molecules such as ethanol, methanol, acetone, will make it up the column depending on the amount of heat applied in the boiler.

Most of the ethanol probably won't be refluxed upon itself because you'll have the column hot enough for most of it to make it up and over the head and on to the descending path. However, if you apply extremely low heat on the boiler at the start, you can try to fractionally distil the acetone from the ethanol. If there isn't enough heat to have the top of the column at or around 80c, ethanol will turn back into liquid and flow back down to the boiler and the acetone and methanol will make it through.

Obviously this isn't the best way to cause reflux or fractional distillation, and it is better to have some scrubbers involved and an inline condenser, but it does in fact work. You won't have complete control, and you can't force all the liquid to re-condense, but it will create a purer product.

[rad14701]

I think it might be time to do a write up about the difference between "condensation" and "reflux" as it may resolve the misconception regarding packed pot columns once and for all... I'll see what I can work up in the near future...