Inverted Sugar

[FreeMountainHermit]

From time to time inverting sugar is mentioned here at the HD forums. Pretty simple operation as it is described on the parent site and I don't think that I would mind incorporating it into my regular mash routine.

Pros/cons ??????

Comments please.

TIA, FMH.

[Dnderhead]

it makes it a bit easier for yeast to "eat" but iv never seen any big advantages.

[Tater]

I think inverting the sugar helps also with taste .

[rubber duck]

The advantage is that it makes a cleaner product.

Refined white sugar is sucrose, sucrose is made up of fructose and glucose bonded together. Yeast can not use sucrose, it first must break the bond to use the to sugars separately. In breaking this bond the yeast has to work harder then it has to and the stress will produce some off flavors. Invert sugar just tastes good to, I could eat it on ice cream.

The disadvantages are that inverted sugar is less fermentable buy between 10 and 15%. It's also a pain to make compared to just dumping in some sugar.

[bluestar]

Much commercial yeast has been bred to adequately produce the enzyme necessary to invert the sucrose to glucose and fructose. Such yeast will actually perform better with sucrose solution than invert sugar. There are yeasts that are bred for improved efficiency for direct fermentation of fructose, and but these are not ideal for invert sugar, since you will get depletion of one sugar over the other. This problem of getting stuck on excess glucose can even occur sometimes with yeast that prefer sucrose. So, there is not much advantage to inverting the sugar yourself unless it is called for because of a special yeast you want to use.

[rad14701]

bluestar, do you have any links to documentation on the subject you have described...??? I haven't read any such information and find it hard to believe that a single celled organism could be both yeast and enzyme at the same time...

I had stopped inverting my sugar for almost a year and recently went back to inverting... I can say without hesitation that inverting speeds up yeast colony propagation during the aerobic phase as well as speeding fermentation during the anaerobic phase... Also, inverting without citric acid, lemon juice, or cream of tartar is not as effective as when used... Unfortunately, I won't be able to do the side by side comparison I wanted to do for several months...

[Boda Getta]

I will ask a follow-up question here: I have not been inverting but plan to my next batch of 4th Gen UJSSM. I use a 25# bag of cane sugar per 15 gal batch. How much water (or back-set) and how much lemon juice should I use for 25# and how long should I simmer it?

Thanks,
BG

[rad14701]

I will ask a follow-up question here: I have not been inverting but plan to my next batch of 4th Gen UJSSM. I use a 25# bag of cane sugar per 15 gal batch. How much water (or back-set) and how much lemon juice should I use for 25# and how long should I simmer it?

Thanks,
BG

From my private library...


Inverting Granular Sugar

Inverted sugar is created by combining a sugar syrup with a small amount of acid (such as cream of tartar or lemon juice) and heating. This inverts, or breaks down, the sucrose into its two components, glucose and fructose, thereby reducing the size of the sugar crystals.


Method #1 - 1:1 Ratio

Bring eight pints (16 cups) of water to a boil.
Add eight pounds (16 cups) of granulated sugar and stir the mixture to completely dissolve all of the sugar.
Once dissolved cream of tarter is added to the mixture. One teaspoon to one gallon of syrup is sufficient to invert the sugar in the syrup.
When using eight pints of water and eight pounds of sugar you need to add one and a half teaspoons of cream of tarter because you will end up with a gallon and a half of syrup.
It is important that you boil the mixture for twenty minutes to invert as much as the sucrose as possible. Be sure to stir the mixture a lot and don't let it sit or it will carmalize in the bottom of the pot.


Method #2 - 2:1 Ratio

Invert sugar is made by mixing two parts sugar to one part water, adding two teaspoons lemon juice per pound of sugar. This is brought almost to a boil and then reduced to a vigorous simmer for about 30 minutes (do NOT allow to boil).

For 1 pound invert sugar:

2 cups finely granulated sugar
1 cup water
2 tsp lemon juice


Expand the recipe above to make the amount required by a particular recipe. For example, to make 2-1/2 pounds of invert sugar, use 5 cups sugar, 2-1/2 cups water and 5 tsp lemon juice. Make the invert sugar at least 2 hours ahead of time (to give it sufficient time to cool).


Method #3 - 4:1 Ratio

Dissolve 8 lbs (16 cups) of sugar in 2 pints (4 cups) of water with 1/2 tsp of citric or tartaric acid.
Bring to a boil and stir for 30 minutes.
Add water to make up to 1 gallon batch.
With this recipe, there is approx. 1 lb of sugar in each pint. Use 1-1/4 pints for each lb of Table Sugar called for in a recipe.


Sugar Syrup

Sugar syrup can be made in various densities:

Thin: 3 parts water to 1 part sugar
Medium: 2 parts water to 1 part sugar
Heavy: 1 part water to 1 part sugar

[bluestar]

Invertase, the enzyme that inverts sucrose, is produced by yeast. In fact, yeast are the primary industrial source of invertase. But yeast strains vary greatly in their efficiency of inverting sucrose, and the protein can be adversely affected by other contents of a must. Google yeast and invertase, and you will found hundreds of references to the fact that the yeast produce their own enzyme for inverting sucrose. But your choice of yeast my not be for an efficient inverting of sugar, and hence could produce better results if the sugar is first inverted by other means. Also, there is both an external and internal invertase form generated by yeast. The external form is sensitive to pH, so if the solution is far from neutral, that will slow things down. Really, the biochemistry is potentially much more complicated than any simple model, and highly dependent on the organism and its environment.

[bluestar]

Someone said something about a single cell organism couldn't also be an enzyme. Correct, a single cell organism is not an enzyme, but all can generate many different enzymes, some of which they may even secrete.

[FreeMountainHermit]

I had stopped inverting my sugar for almost a year and recently went back to inverting... I can say without hesitation that inverting speeds up yeast colony propagation during the aerobic phase as well as speeding fermentation during the anaerobic phase... Also, inverting without citric acid, lemon juice, or cream of tartar is not as effective as when used...

With that in mind I'm going to put sugar inversion in the plus column and it is my understanding that citric acid is available through brewers outlets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaric_acid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


Any ratio that I should know about ???

TIA, FMH.

[Braz]

Citric acid is also available at the grocery store, in the canning supplies area.

But I have found that you are much better off pricewise by buying in bulk, pound or two, from internet sources like e-bay.

[chris69ca]

Citric acid is also available at the grocery store, in the canning supplies area.

But I have found that you are much better off pricewise by buying in bulk, pound or two, from internet sources like e-bay.

i get the 100g thing at my grocery store for like $1.50 so i don't see much point to trying to save a few dollars seaming as we dnt use it by the kg anyway

[AlaskaHooch]

Can pure cane brown sugar be inverted?

AlaskaHooch

[snowman_fs]

From my private library...

Method #1 - 1:1 Ratio

Bring eight pints (16 cups) of water to a boil.
Add eight pounds (16 cups) of granulated sugar and stir the mixture to completely dissolve all of the sugar.
Once dissolved cream of tarter is added to the mixture. One teaspoon to one gallon of syrup is sufficient to invert the sugar in the syrup.
When using eight pints of water and eight pounds of sugar you need to add one and a half teaspoons of cream of tarter because you will end up with a gallon and a half of syrup.
It is important that you boil the mixture for twenty minutes to invert as much as the sucrose as possible. Be sure to stir the mixture a lot and don't let it sit or it will carmalize in the bottom of the pot.

Any idea if even more dilution is acceptable for inversion? Ideally I would like to use most (if not all) of my wash volume in a boil kettle to invert the sugar. Having the mix nice and thin would make stirring easy, avoid scorching and keep it clear. The tradeoff might be additional cream of tartar and a longer boil time but both are valid tradeoffs in my mind. I don't have the chemestry background to understand if this is still effective or how much cream of tartar to use. Input?

[kiwi Bruce]

I think inverting the sugar helps also with taste .

+1 Taste is "cleaner"

[Kegg_jam]

So is the taste cleaner because the yeast don't have to work as hard? I've made washes both ways and knew that the lag time was reduced by inverting. Never thought about the taste being better.

[DAD300]

Besides the breaking of the sugars for yeast, the taste is enhanced...granted we don't invert at the high temps mentioned below, but we do see the white sugar water turn brown.

"The Maillard reaction (/maɪˈjɑr/ my-YAR; French pronunciation: ​[majaʁ]) is a chemical reaction between amino acids and reducing sugars that gives browned foods their desirable flavor. Seared steaks, pan-fried dumplings, breads, even toasted marshmallows undergo this reaction. It is done with many other foods. It is named after French chemist Louis-Camille Maillard, who first described it in 1912 while attempting to reproduce biological protein synthesis.[1][2]

The reaction is a form of nonenzymatic browning which typically proceeds rapidly from around 140 to 165 °C (284 to 329 °F). At higher temperatures, caramelization and subsequently pyrolysis become more pronounced.

The reactive carbonyl group of the sugar reacts with the nucleophilic amino group of the amino acid, and forms a complex mixture of poorly characterized molecules responsible for a range of odors and flavors. This process is accelerated in an alkaline environment (e.g., lye applied to darken pretzels), as the amino groups (RNH3+) are deprotonated and, hence, have an increased nucleophilicity. The type of the amino acid determines the resulting flavor. This reaction is the basis of the flavoring industry. At high temperatures, a potential occupational carcinogen called acrylamide can be formed.[3]

In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created. These compounds, in turn, break down to form yet more new flavor compounds, and so on. Each type of food has a very distinctive set of flavor compounds that are formed during the Maillard reaction. It is these same compounds that flavor scientists have used over the years to make reaction flavors."

I avoid scorching by heating the water, turn heat off, 180F and adding the sugar. I put 25 pounds in eight gallons of hot water...never had trouble stirring it...stir until I see the color change. Add adjunct grins or cereals. Then I water it down to the right SG.

[S-Cackalacky]

I've read that the Maillard reaction doesn't occur in the presence of water. I think the browning of the sugar dissolved in water is caramelization which is a completely different reaction. Different sugars caramelize at different temperatures - fructose being the lowest at 230 dF. Caramelization can also occur at lower temps with more time. Are there amino acids present in cane sugar - idk? Are both reactions possible with sugar? Possibly, but not when dissolved in water.

[DAD300]

Hmm...but we do see the white sugar turn brown in the 150-160F water...

[Jimbo]

Invert sugar is sweeter, glucose and fructose are 20% sweeter than the sucrose its made from ( I dont know how the hell they measure sweetness, a panel of kids maybe?) And it is also less prone to crystalization in your product. Invert sugar for these reasons is a great choice for pantydroppers, in addition to fermenting as mentioned below.

[shadylane]

I seldom ask dumb questions, but here's one.
Would Gluco enzymes convert sucrose into glucose ?

[kiwi Bruce]

There is an interesting thing about white sugar in Homebrewing. If the sugar is not inverted there is a real risk of getting the taste of unripe apples in the beer. I'm just wondering if this isn't the source of the same strange flavor in distilling.

[ga flatwoods]

Dad300 wrote I avoid scorching by heating the water, turn heat off, 180F and adding the sugar. I put 25 pounds in eight gallons of hot water...never had trouble stirring it...stir until I see the color change. Add adjunct grins or cereals. Then I water it down to the right SG.
I do the same thing Dad except for not turning off the heat. When it clears off and there are no more crystals coming up on the stirring spoon, I dump it into the fermenter which already has the cooled backset and remaining water for the mash. I only add the water just before adding the syrup so it remains cool enough to cool the syrup without harming the yeasts. If some do die then it allows room for more to grow. Never had a problem with this method unless the ph was off after blending then some backing soda usually does the trick. The sg is usually fairly close when properly measured.

And for a certainty if adding sugar to make wine, the granulated will sit in the bottom and the sucrose will be gone down to dry!

Ga Flatwoods

[rad14701]

I seldom ask dumb questions, but here's one.
Would Gluco enzymes convert sucrose into glucose ?

I have read about people using enzymes to achieve the same end result... I would imagine there would be an even more distinct flavor difference using enzymes, but that's just my personal opinion... YMMV...

[rad14701]

From my private library...

Method #1 - 1:1 Ratio

Bring eight pints (16 cups) of water to a boil.
Add eight pounds (16 cups) of granulated sugar and stir the mixture to completely dissolve all of the sugar.
Once dissolved cream of tarter is added to the mixture. One teaspoon to one gallon of syrup is sufficient to invert the sugar in the syrup.
When using eight pints of water and eight pounds of sugar you need to add one and a half teaspoons of cream of tarter because you will end up with a gallon and a half of syrup.
It is important that you boil the mixture for twenty minutes to invert as much as the sucrose as possible. Be sure to stir the mixture a lot and don't let it sit or it will carmalize in the bottom of the pot.

Any idea if even more dilution is acceptable for inversion? Ideally I would like to use most (if not all) of my wash volume in a boil kettle to invert the sugar. Having the mix nice and thin would make stirring easy, avoid scorching and keep it clear. The tradeoff might be additional cream of tartar and a longer boil time but both are valid tradeoffs in my mind. I don't have the chemestry background to understand if this is still effective or how much cream of tartar to use. Input?

This is a fairly standard ratio, from my research... I have had success with inverting a more diluted mixture of sugar water using white vinegar but have not tried with cream of tartar that I can recall... When I used cream of tartar I stuck with the 1:1 ratio...

[Bobdoe]

I seldom ask dumb questions, but here's one.
Would Gluco enzymes convert sucrose into glucose ?

I am pretty sure that the answer is "no". My understanding is that some of the gluco enzymes will produce glucose from larger polysaccharides/starch by cutting them off the ends of the starch molecule, one glucose molecule at a time. Sorta like a PacMan. Something was posted a few years ago on this thread about invertase, an enzyme made by yeast. Invertase is not released from the yeast cell but remains associated with both the yeast cell wall and the inside of the cell. This is the enzyme that splits sucrose (the table sugar some add to the wash/mash) into glucose and fructose, both of which the yeast can metabolize (but most yeast will choose glucose over fructose if both are available).

I honestly doubt that the yeasts are all that stressed by having to split the sucrose with invertase; its a very normal part of their life. I'll bet that a lot of other factors in our ferments stresses the yeasts much more than having to deal with the sucrose to glucose reaction. A second mechanism by which sucrose is split into glucose and fructose is simply an acidic pH (and our mashes are in the acid range, so a little spontaneous splitting of sucrose occurs just because of the low pH).

So, in summary, I don't think the gluco enzymes can split sucrose into glucose and fructose; they do produce glucose, but by cutting it off of the ends of starch. If we choose to make a sugar shine with table sugar (sucrose), the yeast's invertase and the acidic pH will cleave the sucrose into glucose and fructose, and the yeast will metabolize the glucose until it's gone and then use the fructose til that's gone, then die. If we make a sugar shine with glucose only (aka dextrose or corn sugar), the yeast can just directly utilize that sugar with any need for it to be first hydrolyzed as is the case with sucrose.

It's not surprising that product made with sucrose vs inverted sucrose tastes different. I also bet that someone has made sugar shine with corn sugar (glucose) instead of sugar or inverted sugar that made a product that tasted unique.

Just my two cents
BD

Edit: I just learned that you can buy invertase enzyme purified from yeast. Candy makers use it to make glucose and fructose from sucrose. It's pretty how cool candy makers use it -they put invertase in the center of a candy, and the enzyme will liquefy the center (when it cleaves the sucrose). This is how those candies with a gooey center are made.

[Jimbo]

I honestly doubt that the yeasts are all that stressed by having to split the sucrose with invertase; its a very normal part of their life. I'll bet that a lot of other factors in our ferments stresses the yeasts much more than having to deal with the sucrose to glucose reaction.

Agree with this. When I make a gumballhead sugar shine from the spent bourbon grains, using straight table sugar, it ferments fast and furious to bone dry. Faster I think than the original bourbon wash fermented. Its low pH to start with so as Bobdoe says, that helps too.

I am curious about the flavor comments tho. Is hydrolysis of the sucrose via invertase in teh cell wall responsible or partly responsible for the sugar zing in sugar heads? Why doenst maltose, another disaccharide except with 2 glucose molecules instead of sucrose's glucose + fructose have that sugar twang? Its not the fructose bringing the zing either or we'd taste it in fruit brandys.

[Bobdoe]

I am curious about the flavor comments tho. Is hydrolysis of the sucrose via invertase in teh cell wall responsible or partly responsible for the sugar zing in sugar heads? Why doenst maltose, another disaccharide except with 2 glucose molecules instead of sucrose's glucose + fructose have that sugar twang? Its not the fructose bringing the zing either or we'd taste it in fruit brandys.

Hey Jimbo- Short answer: I don't know! This is a great and complicated question. I just spent time looking over the literature and didn't come up with a straight answer, but I can say this- the congeners produced by different strains of yeasts using different sugars under anaerobic conditions are different. I suppose different congeners may generate different tastes, including the sugar bite. The metabolic paths taken by these sugars are complex with lots and lots of alternative paths and by-products (some being the congeners).
Here's a figure from the literature. A diagram of a typical yeast cell. Note that the arrows designating a step in a metabolic path go both ways, meaning that these reactions can go forward, backward, and can take one of several paths, raising the possibility for more than one product for any given metabolized molecule/sugar:

And this only shows an idealized model of a yeast. Many other paths (including the ones that make the congeners that interest us) are not shown. Wish it was more straightforward! I plan to research this more when time permits, but I'm sure that every imaginable parameter for our fermentations will have an impact on how the yeasts handle any given sugar to give a particular taste/bite (temperature, pH, minerals (type and concentration), nutrients (type and concentration), yeast density, yeast strain and lot/batch number, precise type and amount of input sugars (e.g., an all grain mash will have a hell of a complex mixture of sugars), phase of moon, etc etc.)

BD

[Jimbo]

I suppose different congeners may generate different tastes, including the sugar bite.

Interesting supposition, but I dont think that explains it. Ive used dozens of different yeasts over the years and never had a sugar bite with grain or fruit. And when using sucrose, the sugar bite is ubiquitous, regardless of yeast used.

Its an interesting nut to crack, but at the end of the day sugar costs more than grain, so its not like we're gonna win a Nobel for figuring out finally how to make a great tasting hooch out of a more expensive base product.

Wow, that diagram.... Only thing I recognized in there was something that looked like a diode bridge.

Yes definitely on various fermentation conditions affecting congeners. In spades. I ferment my hefeweizen beers warm intentionally to kick up the hefe clovey banana thing that yeast does.

Im going with 'phase of the moon'.