FLUTE TALK

[olddog]

It will stop automatically, the takeoff will reduce from a stream to just a few drops when virtually all the alcohol is taken, then turn off the dephlag, and put the still into potstill mode to collect the tails. Watch how quick your abv drops


OD

[Mr.Spooky]

all plates are "perking right now.. im beginning to think that ill need a bigger water container. running 2 condensors out of the same 35 or so gallon water container is a little much.
spooky

[Thorn_veritas]

Anyway......

God I love these flutes I just cant wait to get mine goin I give up on trying 2 1/2 and am now on the lookout for some 4". Any1 near brisbane help? I will still use the 2 1/2 for graham and bits n pieces. But yeah im not guna use sight glasses to much effort for a non neccesity ( as I understand ). But yeah im just hanging out waiting.

But yeah lets move back to flute talk.

[Thorn_veritas]

hopfully not. I have to wait and scrounge me local scrapyard for a bit. Damn public holidays!

So do you think the sight glasses have any use other than asthetics? I understand it helps judge reflux ratio but after a couple of runs once you find all your perfect settings its just something pretty to watch hey?

I just couldnt be bothered if its a " want not a need " .

[Kentucky shinner]

you could get by just fine without I am sure. I do think they have some value though. I find it nice to know I am depleting the alcohol though because the bottom plates will start shutting off. Also for me I like to reflux for 30min. after all the plates start to bubble, without the sight glasses I guess you could go strictly by the thermo. I personally think they do have a good benefit other than just something to watch.
KS

[Mr.Spooky]

hmmmmm...

Awesome! Besides heat did you do anything different?

i dident do anything different. i just dident mess with much. before, i would turn heat up,, turn it down,,,,,turn water up,,, turn it down. i think that i was just messin with it too much. this time i just sat on my hands and let it happen. im feeling alot better about it now!
spooky

[Kentucky shinner]

Hey spooky, your doing right man.. I dont mess with mine much at all. You have to some though just to learn how it likes to be ran. after you have run it about 3 or 4 times you will have her dialed in im sure of it.
Man they have some pretty good pumps at harbor freight for about 40-50 bucks. You can screw a garden hose on it and just drop it in your tank.

[Mr.Spooky]

after i imediataly shut down the heat, (BTW,, this is #1 reason you should be at your still) i went ahead and cleaned up the mess i had out and came inside and got on the computer. after about 35 or so minuets, i heard something and thought what the hell is that??? so i went out and the pump was running.. odviousally i dident unplug it.. i think that it just got too hot and quit for a minute.
i went ahead and fired up the flute and ran as a pot still just so i could pull anything out to put in another keg so oneday i can do a fine heads/tails run!!
spooky

[LWTCS]

after you have run it about 3 or 4 times you will have her dialed in im sure of it.

I recon the thing that makes you (us,,them,,who ever) want to fiddle with the cooling adjustments is that there is a delay till the still settles back into the adjustment made.

Takes a few runs till you can gage the effect of any adjustments. Its like we want the rig to respond instantly but the rig would prefer to work at it's own pace or some shit like that there.

Prolly the same instinct that made us play with the power window buttons on that 74 cadillac when we wuz kids

[Kentucky shinner]

I think your right LWTCS. I think it just takes some getting use to. I tell the guys who have asked me about running this thing to make small adjustments when your starting out and wait at least 5 mins before doing anything. I know right where to set mine now. I just fire it up and let her go once I start pulling product. It pretty much runs itself.
Oh and your also right about the 74 caddy... I did the same shit first time i saw power windows..

[bgrizzle]

Spook... so your pump died... I hear that on a flute there is very little water necessary to flow through the dephlag... I wonder if your pump went bad due built up pressure and strain on the pump...

Do you have a pressure release valve? I'm sure you do and I'm being an idiot to you ask you such a dumb question.

I use a water fountain pump that I bought at Lowes... I think its 500 gallon per hour (probably way over kill)... Like K.S. said, there is some awesome stuff at Harbor Freight. I know thats its pretty cheap, but I have had good luck there. Its all made in China, but what the hell isnt these days!

Good luck man and merry christmas.

[olddog]

If you have a control manifold, as you cut down the flow to the dephlag, you compensate for the increase pressure , you increase the flow through the Graham condenser by opening up that valve.


OD

[moonshiner dave]

Dang, looks like I missed the party this morning. . Glad to hear everything is ok O.D.. As for that graham, it was my first and I didn't do much research on the size it needed to be, so I just threw about 15 ft. of copper tubing at it and cut everything else to fit. I knew from the pics that it was probably a little bigger than what was needed. I managed to get my car rim burner made but am still waiting on the burner itself to ship. I can't wait to get this thing going, it's driving me crazy.

[olddog]

I am now feeling good, all health problems resolved, all Flute builds completed and shipped, I had time to run my own Flute with the latest gen of my UJSSM.
I have now got time to do some R&D on my new design, I briefly touched on it at the start of this thread. It will be a "Stumpy "Flute, with a drop in shotgun dephlagmater, with 2 plates with a single 2" bubble cap, and a weir type downcomer. I am looking into the Laminaire used above the dephlagmater like they use on the Holstein stills which turn the vapor from a turbulent flow to a laminar flow to improve takeoff. I am also looking into a 3 way control valve, I am not sure if it will work, but a valve with a single lever, one input and two outputs to control the product condenser and the dephlagmater condenser with a single lever, at this stage I am not sure if as you gradually close one output it will gradually open the other, or whether they are one open and one closed without graduation.
As soon as I get more progressed with this design, I will post some pics for comment.



OD

[Mr.Spooky]

Spook... so your pump died... I hear that on a flute there is very little water necessary to flow through the dephlag... I wonder if your pump went bad due built up pressure and strain on the pump...

Do you have a pressure release valve? I'm sure you do and I'm being an idiot to you ask you such a dumb question.

I use a water fountain pump that I bought at Lowes... I think its 500 gallon per hour (probably way over kill)... Like K.S. said, there is some awesome stuff at Harbor Freight. I know thats its pretty cheap, but I have had good luck there. Its all made in China, but what the hell isnt these days!

Good luck man and merry christmas.

auctually i dont have a pressure release valve.. i dont have a manifold that OD talks about eigther. at first, i was just going to run 2 seperate pumps but the pumps that i had dident have enough head pressure.. i got a submersable pump and put one of those garden water hose Y's and split the flow like that. with the way that im doing this,, there might be a few flaws. #1 my water container is about 30-35 galons, witch heats up pretty fast. #2, the pump im using i dont think is designed to run as long as it does (but it will shoot a 3/4" streem of water about 10 foot in the air).
all of these little things will be worked out.
thanks
spooky

[Kentucky shinner]

Hey OD I love the sound of your design changes. I am also thinking of some things. I really like your idea of 1 - 3way valve for water control. I would think it would work fine. Your Mind is hooked up and running on 8 cylinders that is for sure.. You go OD.. I love your engineering skills my friend..
I always look forward to reading your post... You are the Master
KS

[LWTCS]

I am looking into the Laminaire used above the dephlagmater like they use on the Holstein stills which turn the vapor from a turbulent flow to a laminar flow to improve takeoff.

Will that be a mechinized apperatus or more of a device like Condensificator has installed in his VM build?

[blanikdog]

The black stump is the place that everything is past eg, "Where's Patchiwallop?" "Follow this road for a few more miles - meaning several hundred - way past the black stump an you'll see the silos on the horizon. That's Patchiwallop".

[cob]

stumpy enough for ya olddog? 15x 58cm. it was headed for the baler.

[olddog]

The piece I am working with at the moment, is about 16"by 4".
BTW Cob, never throw copper away, you never know when you might need it.


OD

[cob]

The piece I am working with at the moment, is about 16"by 4".
BTW Cob, never throw copper away, you never know when you might need it.


OD

10-4 i rescued this at the scrappy last spring the bin had 40-50 pieces of 6" 8-10feet long going to the baler i can only rescue so much. cob

[valkyrie99]

I'm trying to understand the design here. Are we talking about a flute as a special design, or are we calling a physical plate reflux column a flute because that is what old dog named his. I'm ok with whatever I'm just trying to understand .
Also is there a difference between a flute and a mile high type other than the plates verses packing?
Thanks. Valk

[olddog]

I'm trying to understand the design here. Are we talking about a flute as a special design, or are we calling a physical plate reflux column a flute because that is what old dog named his

The Flute design came about when I tried successfully to downscale the types of design used by Holstien, and Carl stills, for use for a home distiller using a keg for a boiler. Unlike a packed column which tends to strip flavor, using plates from 3 to 10 in the column the aim was to retain flavor, increase the ABV and increase the takeoff speed.
The name Flute came about when I called for submissions as what to call the column, and I settled on the Magic Flute.


OD

[valkyrie99]

Ok, thanks, I have been reading most of the info here and think this is what I ultimately want to have. I have already started collecting parts. I need to get some experience at drilling first but I will collect parts as I go.

Thanks. Valk

[olddog]

Having a few bits of spare copper leftovers in the shop, I thought I would try them for my latest brainfart, which is a small plated column with a drop in deplagmater, and using just a single cap per plate and weir downcomers

Here is the drop in Dephlagmater, made from an offcut of 4"tubing, then cut lengthways and compressed to fit inside a 4"tuble.

It fits snuggly inside the 4"tube and has feed and return tube coming out of the top, I am not sure how this will go with the tubes passing through the vapor chamber and coming out of a plate which seals the top of the column.

This is the top of the vapor input tube for a plate, I have filed it down leaving 4 pillars, these pillars will be hard soldered inside of the cap leaving a gap for the vapor to pass.

.
The plate is then drilled out to take the riser tube and then hard soldered from the bottom.

The weir plate is then soldered to the plate, and then it is ready to be soft soldered into the 4"tube

the sides of the weir downcomer will be soldered to the column.
This is purely experimental, it could work great, or could be a dismal failure, I will report more as I progress.


OD

[gretschem]

Very interesting OD

[olddog]

I am just trying to work out how to make a vapor lock for the bottom plate with a weir downcomer, with a tubular downcomer it's easy you just make a "J " tube on the bottom plate, but a weir downcomer presents a few more problems.


OD

[Kentucky shinner]

Now I understand better. I was not exactly clear on the design after we talked the other night, but the pics make it crystal clear.. I really look for ward to seeing this progress. You may just have to use a downcomer on the bottom plate? would it be possible to make say a 1/3rd of a plate with a dam bent up on behind the weir? Maybe precharge the very bottom to make a vapor trap?

[olddog]

Yes I managed to work it out similar to your drawing, but with a dam rising up 1/2"from the plate to make the weir.


OD

[rad14701]

Been kicking around the single bubble cap with a downcomer in the center idea myself, olddog...

The other idea I have been tossing about was using fine SS mesh with a downcomer... If the mesh is fine enough it will only let vapor up through but not let liquid fall back through...

Grrr...!!! Wish I still had a shop and/or garage to work in... City livin sucks...