The Earth is Flat

[GrassHopper]

I brought this here to a new thread because I felt that the welcome thread was not
the appropriate place for further discussion. If the reader has a difficult time gathering
the context, then reread the Welcome thread under "Hello, I am Kareltje".

I read your links. Thanks.
I also read https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Dis ... pics/35812" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Nice piece of work.
But I impatiently wait for articles about tin (Sn), zinc (Zn) and iron (Fe). These may not be aal construction materials, but they are abundant in containers for food and drinks, kitchen utensils and farm or garden tools.
What about a tinned can for collecting distilates? I found a watering can of galvanized iron that looks perfect as a helmet for a still. Can I use it? I have a iron column or iron fillings for a copper column. Is that a problem?
What about toxicity, attacks by acids, transports by gasstreams etc.?
And what about other metals? I saw a still of titanium for sale (made by a engineer of a aircraft company). Is this safe?

Perhaps I did not understand the questions you were asking due to translation issues.
I answered based on what I understood. Which is this:
Are these metals safe for distilling alcohols? You mentioned galvanized iron specifically, and tin for collecting in and wanted info about zinc and iron. So, if I misunderstood what you were asking. Please set me straight.
And then this:
[quote="Kareltje[/quote]
I suppose you are refering to the first part of the article. I did read it, but you did not read my questions. I am not so stupid as to make a boiler of a tinned can or a galvanized bucket: I know very well what tin and zinc are used for. But a helmet is filled with a hot mixture of water and alcohol and that is supposed to be neutral. A recipient is supposed to be filled with cold distillate, also supposed to be neutral. Strong and hot alcohol may leach out plastics, but I wondered about the leaching out of metals and alloys by neutral alcohol.
In just read http://www.mast.is/Uploads/document/gui ... erials.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow, which is quite amusing, in view of your remarks.
Your arguments sound like: "The earth is flat and the sun revolves around it and everybody knows that and so it is, because it is the wellproven truth."
On the other hand: maybe this corner of the forum, especially for newcomers, is not the right place to discuss these matters.[/quote]
Yes, of course the earth is flat. And the sun revolves around it. Who said it wasn't?
Was it Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Einstein? Galileo was put under house arrest for
believing otherwise. I'm being facetious of course.
Cetain theory becomes accepted fact when a body of experts have observed it enough
over time that it is no longer questioned. "quoted from a physics class by bernstein"

Now you post a link to an article that is food related and has no bearing on distilling hot alcohols. And then ask a question of whether it is safe to use a galvanized watering can as a
helmet in part of your still? Is that correct or am I missing something? And then state that the vapor that passes through the helmet is "neutral", as if to say, (and I am only guessing here), that somehow it is less volatile in vapor form on the metal than in the boiler. Am I right? Or not?
I admit that I depend a lot on the senior members experience of this forum and do not claim to have all the answers. It has been well documented on here as well as other studies what is safe to use for distilling. If I have missed something, I will gladly stand corrected.

As to the science of it all, I have spent a great deal of time studying physics and chemistry, so I am not completely ignorant to most theories and especially chemical reactions. And yes, I do lean heavily on the current accepted literature available, simply because I don't have time or a lab to do my own tests. Even if it says the earth is flat, I would believe it because as Isaac Newton said: " If I have seen further than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants".

In closing, your questions are valid and open to a real discussion without prejudice.

[Kareltje]

OK.
Refering to your post in the Welcome Center:
You got a point and I have sufficient sense of humor. But have you?

Indeed: the Welcome Center is not the appropriate place for a discussion, but on my most recent posts I was just reacting to the welcomes and advices I got.
Apparently you reacted on the phrase: "The earth is flat and the sun revolves around it." And I agree: the Welcome Center is not the place to talk about that.
I was referring to the fight between Galileo and the church about the shape of the earth. And the people who warned Columbus not to sail too far to the west: he might fall off the disc of the earth.
I see a lot of statements made with much power and a lot of them are not true. Not only in everyday life people are lying to you every chance they get, but also in our trade/hobby.
I, for example, believed that methanol was removed in the heads, but recently I found that it is not.
I read statements that I know from my own experience to be false. Several!
(I have read scorns to me about one of the rules of this forum, in the same sentence violating the same rule.)

It appears that some subjects are taboo, step on long toes, offend people. And when these people have power, just like the pope, you have bad luck, just like Galileo.

So: Permission to speak freely, sir, sir!
And I rely on your sentence:

In closing, your questions are valid and open to a real discussion without prejudice.

Not only without prejudice, but also without punishment!!!

[UnSub]

I believe that what is lost in translation is:

Kareltje: Are you are looking for scholarly articles explaining the reasons to not use certain materials?

If so: they will not be readily available via this site. You will find some literature that is "proven", but maybe not exactly what you are looking for (but I could be wrong- I use a poor phone app).

BUT: you can have faith in knowing that thousands of member HAVE done research on a personal level and concur with the facts. I have looked for article (scholarly) on distillation of spirits and they are somewhat elusive (at least for me) and very involved research which is beyond my desire to attempt to comprehend.

Try looking for ANY available materials for SPIRITS distillation- very few are available besides the aforementioned. But if you look for products used in ethanol distillation; you find many but those products do not require to be a leach free product since ethanol is not meant for consumption as SPIRITS ARE.

Does that make sense?

I believe their may be other materials that distilleries use safely but, as I am not a licensed distiller I do not have availability to such items (I could be wrong...)

And yes: alternate materials is a very sensitive issue, so is using a phone app that has poor search results- both will get you black-listed pretty quick.

[GrassHopper]

I read statements that I know from my own experience to be false. Several!
(I have read scorns to me about one of the rules of this forum, in the same sentence violating the same rule.)
It appears that some subjects are taboo, step on long toes, offend people. And when these people have power, just like the pope, you have bad luck, just like Galileo.

So: Permission to speak freely, sir, sir!
And I rely on your sentence:

In closing, your questions are valid and open to a real discussion without prejudice.

Not only without prejudice, but also without punishment!!!
[quote="Kareltje

Speak freely of course. Some people who come on here perceive that they are being punished. It is the opinion of most here that it is constructive criticism.
If one does not receive constructive criticism well, then this can be a difficult place to be. All anyone asks is that if you have an opinion that is apart from the general consensus of the forum members, at least be willing to back it with data and facts and something other than just experience.

It would be helpful if you could be specific as to what rules you are referring to and which statements according to your experience do you believe to be false.
Keep in mind that safety is a main concern here. Some of the more experienced may very well be able to go against some of the rules safely, but to the inexperienced....it could be dangerous.

Other rules, such as size limit of the boiler is because there has to be a cutoff point for this hobby to be considered as hobby and not commercial so we don't have to have a license.... here in the USA anyway.

Carry on.....the discussions are on

[freaky_cutout]

OK.
Refering to your post in the Welcome Center:
You got a point and I have sufficient sense of humor. But have you?

Indeed: the Welcome Center is not the appropriate place for a discussion, but on my most recent posts I was just reacting to the welcomes and advices I got.
Apparently you reacted on the phrase: "The earth is flat and the sun revolves around it." And I agree: the Welcome Center is not the place to talk about that.
I was referring to the fight between Galileo and the church about the shape of the earth. And the people who warned Columbus not to sail too far to the west: he might fall off the disc of the earth.
I see a lot of statements made with much power and a lot of them are not true. Not only in everyday life people are lying to you every chance they get, but also in our trade/hobby.
I, for example, believed that methanol was removed in the heads, but recently I found that it is not.
I read statements that I know from my own experience to be false. Several!
(I have read scorns to me about one of the rules of this forum, in the same sentence violating the same rule.)

It appears that some subjects are taboo, step on long toes, offend people. And when these people have power, just like the pope, you have bad luck, just like Galileo.

So: Permission to speak freely, sir, sir!
And I rely on your sentence:

In closing, your questions are valid and open to a real discussion without prejudice.

Not only without prejudice, but also without punishment!!!

Yep, you are right.

[ga flatwoods]

But why? Why? Why is that? Why not? Well then why so? Why? What about ...? No. But why? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Etc.

[freaky_cutout]

But why? Why? Why is that? Why not? Well then why so? Why? What about ...? No. But why? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Etc.

They say, they recommend, if you don’t bend, you are a wrend, you are a classic, bombastic, refutable, totalitarian...... Nice to see some of you old timers step back.

[Tater]

But why? Why? Why is that? Why not? Well then why so? Why? What about ...? No. But why? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Etc.

They say, they recommend, if you don’t bend, you are a wrend, you are a classic, bombastic, refutable, totalitarian...... Nice to see some of you old timers step back.

Well see our troll InglisHill is back.

[rad14701]

I have no idea what the purpose of this topic or the original post... If any member doesn't like how this site views safety, etc, they are welcome to leave an go elsewhere... Our stance of materials and safety are for the greater good of the overall membership... If some lone wolf wants to do their own thing that's all on them but we don't need them trying to disrupt our efforts...

Good call, Tater...

[freaky_cutout]

But why? Why? Why is that? Why not? Well then why so? Why? What about ...? No. But why? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Etc.

They say, they recommend, if you don’t bend, you are a wrend, you are a classic, bombastic, refutable, totalitarian...... Nice to see some of you old timers step back.

Well see our troll InglisHill is back.

I will always be back, may as well just unban me

[Tater]

But why? Why? Why is that? Why not? Well then why so? Why? What about ...? No. But why? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Etc.

They say, they recommend, if you don’t bend, you are a wrend, you are a classic, bombastic, refutable, totalitarian...... Nice to see some of you old timers step back.

Well see our troll InglisHill is back.

I will always be back, may as well just unban me

Naw its to much fun to catch ya. Like a fish that is to stupid to quit biting.Only take 30 seconds to ban you . How long to reapply heh time is on my side. make one wonder how you act on your site . Kiwis is he a prime example of youall ?

[GrassHopper]

I have no idea what the purpose of this topic or the original post... If any member doesn't like how this site views safety, etc, they are welcome to leave an go elsewhere... Our stance of materials and safety are for the greater good of the overall membership... If some lone wolf wants to do their own thing that's all on them but we don't need them trying to disrupt our efforts...

Good call, Tater...

I have learned to have a great deal of respect for Rad. He does't beat around the bush.

I guess I stepped in the dog pile when I took on the original OP in the Welcome center. I thought I was answering a question that I felt was in support of the forums stand on safe materials for distilling. So, I answered it based on safety concerns that I have learned here as well as other verified and tested data. The OP responded as though I didn't understand the questions. And the following members remarks (in the welcome thread), led me to believe that perhaps, that was the case, since no one was stepping up to defend my remarks.
The purpose of this thread was to clarify whether I was misinformed or whether I was correct in my original response.
That's it!........That was the purpose of the thread.

You guys seem to speak in an (in house encrypted) language with each other that confuses me at times and I am unsure of whether I am being chastised, ridiculed or supported.

So, I apologize to the community if I have messed up.

[Tater]

No your fine I saw what you were after other is just me letting a troll know how its gonna be.Sorry it confused you had this been somewhere else then off topic id just edited post rather then responded

[shadylane]

Don't worry about it GrassHopper.
Your only sin, was to let a trollish individual lead you down the dark path

[jb-texshine]

Did y'all catch that episode of booze traveler that ingliss was in....Dude had some SERIOUS stills but...there seemed to be a few screws loose somewhere.kinda reminded me of a few friends I usta have...every time I went out in public with them someone went to jail...moral of my story- you just can't let some people out in public.

Your good grasshopper

[GrassHopper]

Thanks guys.....hate that when I question my sanity. Jeeze, life is still good, I might even be normal.

[shadylane]

Thanks guys.....hate that when I question my sanity. Jeeze, life is still good, I might even be normal.

Normal people are boring to the rest of us.
But, it may be time for a mod to put this post to rest.

[Kareltje]

I brought this here to a new thread because I felt that the welcome thread was not
the appropriate place for further discussion. If the reader has a difficult time gathering
the context, then reread the Welcome thread under "Hello, I am Kareltje".

I agree on that.
Thanks for your attempt to really talk about things.

In closing, your questions are valid and open to a real discussion without prejudice.

Apparently not!
I really tried to answer you, but seeing the biased reactions of other contributors I refrain from it.
I rest my case!

[Kareltje]

I have no idea what the purpose of this topic or the original post... If any member doesn't like how this site views safety, etc, they are welcome to leave an go elsewhere... Our stance of materials and safety are for the greater good of the overall membership... If some lone wolf wants to do their own thing that's all on them but we don't need them trying to disrupt our efforts...

Good call, Tater...

I have learned to have a great deal of respect for Rad. He does't beat around the bush.

I guess I stepped in the dog pile when I took on the original OP in the Welcome center. I thought I was answering a question that I felt was in support of the forums stand on safe materials for distilling. So, I answered it based on safety concerns that I have learned here as well as other verified and tested data. The OP responded as though I didn't understand the questions. And the following members remarks (in the welcome thread), led me to believe that perhaps, that was the case, since no one was stepping up to defend my remarks.

You did well. Your original feeling about my intentions was correct. But you did not understand my question.

The purpose of this thread was to clarify whether I was misinformed or whether I was correct in my original response.
That's it!........That was the purpose of the thread.

You were correct in your original response. I would have liked a serious discussion, but other people seem to be opposed to that.

You guys seem to speak in an (in house encrypted) language with each other that confuses me at times and I am unsure of whether I am being chastised, ridiculed or supported.

So, I apologize to the community if I have messed up.

I think you honestly reacted to my questions. But that is dangerous: you are not supposed to even vagely think about the possibility that the earth is not flat.

So be it: I have better things to do.