My stainless rig with SPP

[der wo]

Yes a NM!
Or DM (controlled by the diameter of the product path)

[DAD300]

If the mass of the SPP takes longer to heat, there is some compression going on during heatup and within the SPP.

From the time I can't hold my hand on the bottom of my SPP filled column until the vapor reaches the top can be 30 minutes. All the while the cold SPP is dropping reflux down the column. This is far more significant than wire mesh that heats up faster.

He has built in some control and increased reflux if the column is 3" at takeoff and the take off 2". It's just not variable.

I have many neutral runs were I change the reflux ratio only once. I know the sweet spot to get azeo from the first drop and very late in the run I will increase reflux to maintain it.

I don't usually go after deep tails, but have as an experiment. It just takes too much time and power.

[DAD300]

der wo,

What you say about diameter controlled is legit...I had a 2" dia column with a 1/2" diameter take off and it was fantastic for neutral. Unfortunately it was also fantastically slow.

[rad14701]

Stop fixating on reflux ratios and get your rig tuned for you...!!!

And, it is entirely possible that your heating element is to blame because they can start going bad at any time... They don't always just work until they fail... You could try testing it with an Ohmmeter which would be quicker than trying another run... Your 2000 Watt element should have 7.2 Ohms of resistance...

[skow69]

He has built in some control and increased reflux if the column is 3" at takeoff and the take off 2". It's just not variable.
I would say that he has built in increased reflux and unnecessary slowness, but he has control in the same sense as you have control of the gear on a one-speed bicycle.

I have many neutral runs were I change the reflux ratio only once. I know the sweet spot to get azeo from the first drop and very late in the run I will increase reflux to maintain it.
Me too. And that is when I'm happy that my bicycle has two speeds. Sometimes I can't do that with a new recipe, I need to feel around a little. .

I'm just saying that IMHO a VM with no way to manage the vapor, in real time, dynamically, during the run, is not everything that it could be. And, in fact, it is missing one of the basic functional components that is responsible for the fundamental properties of that type of still. It's like an engine without half the exhaust valves. Will it run? Ya, probably. Will it do what we expect an engine to do? Probably not. Do we still call it an engine?

And, honestly, wouldn't it be easier to fix this guy's problems if it had a valve?

BTW I run SPP also, and love it.

[der wo]

If the mass of the SPP takes longer to heat, there is some compression going on during heatup and within the SPP.

From the time I can't hold my hand on the bottom of my SPP filled column until the vapor reaches the top can be 30 minutes. All the while the cold SPP is dropping reflux down the column. This is far more significant than wire mesh that heats up faster.

When I run my SPP-column, the temperature just over the packing rises fast from room temp to about 80°C first. After that it drops slower and slower to 78.3 (or lower if there are foreshots). This 80°C is the proof, that the first vapor is not 95% but about 85% at the beginning. And the main goal is not the 95% but a good foreshots concentration and that demands much more redistillations than only the 95%. Of course I only can speak for my own still.

You could try testing it with an Ohmmeter which would be quicker than trying another run... Your 2000 Watt element should have 7.2 Ohms of resistance...

With an Ohm-meter you will not find out, if it will cycle after heat up. You have to test ist while running the still. Normally you should notice the cycling by hearing a "click" from the relay every few seconds. I used a cycling hotplate at the beginning. It was 2.2kW while heating up, but after that it switched off 1/3 of the time. So about 1.5kW was the average now. Enough for my potstill, not enough for my reflux.

[hoochlover]

When I run my SPP-column, the temperature just over the packing rises fast from room temp to about 80°C first. After that it drops slower and slower to 78.3 (or lower if there are foreshots). This 80°C is the proof, that the first vapor is not 95% but about 85% at the beginning. And the main goal is not the 95% but a good foreshots concentration and that demands much more redistillations than only the 95%. Of course I only can speak for my own still.

After the first 30ml of product I could no longer smell heads, and all I did was turn it on and let it warm up, which took about 30-40 minutes with the 10% wash. But to be safe I always discard the first 80-100ml regardless. Once it starts boiling in the boiler it takes another 15 minutes to heat up my SPP. So it has 15 minutes of concentrating as it creeps its way up the column, is 15 minutes what everyone runs? Nope, but given it seems to be concentrating the heads enough on the runs I've done so far I don't think its that big a problem.

With an Ohm-meter you will not find out, if it will cycle after heat up. You have to test ist while running the still. Normally you should notice the cycling by hearing a "click" from the relay every few seconds. I used a cycling hotplate at the beginning. It was 2.2kW while heating up, but after that it switched off 1/3 of the time. So about 1.5kW was the average now. Enough for my potstill, not enough for my reflux.

I can't hear it cycling but it may be a quiet switcher! I should definitely monitor it while it is running next time and see though. I can also try heating the room up to about 25C which will give it an ambient boost, probably enough to distil water. I cannot really distil water with this thing, I get tiny output which to me at least proves it is a pathetic boiler for the rig atop it.

Does anyone have any recommendations for quality 316L stainless steel boiler/pot that comes with a 2 or 3inch ferrule lid that is sealable? I really struggle to find anything, I would TIG Weld myself but all the lids I have found are like 1mm thin and just warp incredibly easy with the smallest heat input. Even using copper heatsinks and every trick in the book, my TIG welder is probably just rubbish. I'd love to buy some quality boiler that isn't made from crap or recycled 304 kegs. If I could find a thicker lid I'd likely be able to do it myself.

[yakattack]

Beer keg mate. Beer keg.

Add a 1 inch ntp nut or furrel to screw the water heater element in or go with 2 inch furrel and get the adapter setup from stilldragon.com for your element. If your column is 2 inches it will clamp right to the 2.inch furrel already on the keg. Add yourself a drain port and a fill port and you'll never look back.

If you look online I'm sure you can order a keg that is 316. But why are you against 304? For our application it is perfectly acceptable. That being said how much money are you looking to spend?

[hoochlover]

Beer keg mate. Beer keg.

Add a 1 inch ntp nut or furrel to screw the water heater element in or go with 2 inch furrel and get the adapter setup from stilldragon.com for your element. If your column is 2 inches it will clamp right to the 2.inch furrel already on the keg. Add yourself a drain port and a fill port and you'll never look back.

If you look online I'm sure you can order a keg that is 316. But why are you against 304? For our application it is perfectly acceptable. That being said how much money are you looking to spend?

I don't mind "Good" 304 but it seems the likelihood you get good 304 with random online purchases is low.

I also don't like the idea of a used keg, can you buy new kegs? Price really isn't a concern if the quality is good enough. Ideally I'd like to be using all glass but you can't find much of that to do any serious volume. I like to do batches that will set me up for a while rather than weekly runs.

[yakattack]

You won't have an issue with locally sourced veer kegs mate. I'd offer to sell ya one of mine but your in Australia so shipping would negate that.

There are a number of Aussies on here. Hopefully one of them can chime in with either a local suplier or a company that will ship to you.

Yak

[yakattack]

Here. 30 second search. Not sure where in ausi you are but 2 for $100 here ain't bad.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/dianella ... 1105094628" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Hound Dog]

Since you can TIG you have many options available to you. Beer keg, yes you can buy them new. Breweries do . You also can look at stainless barrels like wine barrels that come in a variety of sizes. Olive oil comes in stainless barrels. Here in the states small ss barrels are used for maple syrup. You can tig so any sized triclover fitting can be welded on top with fillports, drain ports and burner adapters. The ability to weld stainless is the largest hurdle for most hobby builders.

[hoochlover]

Since you can TIG you have many options available to you. Beer keg, yes you can buy them new. Breweries do . You also can look at stainless barrels like wine barrels that come in a variety of sizes. Olive oil comes in stainless barrels. Here in the states small ss barrels are used for maple syrup. You can tig so any sized triclover fitting can be welded on top with fillports, drain ports and burner adapters. The ability to weld stainless is the largest hurdle for most hobby builders.

Yeah I'm not the best TIG Welder though. My TIG Welder doesn't have pulsing which makes the thin stuff (which I would say is anything under 2mm) nearly impossible. The welding itself isn't impossible, it just seems impossible to not introduce warping which for a lid makes a big difference because you have to force it back to "Fit". As long as the container was sturdy it shouldn't be a problem, like a keg would be fine for me to weld.

My problem is just realizing how much stainless is rubbish. I bought 2 different "stainless steel pots", which are used for beer brewing. And it seems they riveted it with galvanized rivets (or at the least its not stainless, its a different metal) where the handles go. It seems they think polishing over these rivets which are clearly a different metal so no one notices is fine. And after I took them out and welded it shut I realized how flimsy they are to begin with. It would have caused a leak in no time so their use as a pressure vessel is "Not designed into it". At least I can use them fermenting I guess. Or if I ever need to feed an army some stew.

But I got a few PMs with some interesting links, and like you said the companies offering these containers for other industries seems a good place to look.

[DAD300]

Where are you building a pressurized vessel?

Still boilers should never see any pressure...

[hoochlover]

Where are you building a pressurized vessel?

Still boilers should never see any pressure...

Yeah I probably shouldn't have used that word, "Sealed" is better.