Storing Dunder/Backset

[jimsgins]

Thought this was the best place to as the question. I know we have a general 'no plastics' rule on here but given that backest contains no/minimal alcohol, is it acceptable to use old water bottles for storing backset? If no, what do you use to store it? What sort of shelf life does it tend to have?

[der wo]

Perhaps you find some made of PE (HDPE or LDPE) or PP. Better than PET, which can contain BPA or similar substances.
Many buckets are PE. For example buckets for wall paint. At least in my country I can get 10-15l buckets with lid very cheap at stores where I can buy paint. I use them for fermenting too.

[rad14701]

With backset you not only have to worry about the %ABV but also the pH... If the wash is overly acidic it could cause leaching even if the alcohol content is low, which it should be after distillation... But the pH shouldn't be all that terrible... The effects of pH on our fermentation vessels is something we often overlook from a leaching perspective...

[Bushman]

For storing long term I prefer my glass containers for exactly what Rad is referring too! I have both carboys and also a 4 gallon and 2 gallon ball jars that I have used if I am not collecting and storing my alcohol with wood chips before transferring to my oak barrels.

[jimsgins]

Thanks guys, guess I'll be looking for more carboys

[jb-texshine]

Check your local scrap yard for kegs or ss fire extinguishers

[jimsgins]

Nice idea JB, will do

[jb-texshine]

A word of caution on the ss fire extinguishers...
Some are chrome plated ,not true ss. Take a file with you to the scrap yard to file into them and check. Also a magnet.

[dukethebeagle120]

i got 10 gallons of dunder from my still tonite.i ran it into an extra keg.how long should it stay usable???????

[rad14701]

i got 10 gallons of dunder from my still tonite.i ran it into an extra keg.how long should it stay usable???????

I'd be a bit concerned about the acidity damaging the stainless over time... Have you checked the pH...???

[dukethebeagle120]

no but you think i should

[still_stirrin]

i got 10 gallons of dunder from my still tonite.i ran it into an extra keg.how long should it stay usable???????

I'd be a bit concerned about the acidity damaging the stainless over time... Have you checked the pH...???

no but you think i should

Well, if you would just read Rad's question...I believe the answer to your question will become very evident.

[dukethebeagle120]

sorry still,but i was just wondering ,seeing that beer was in the kegs which is obviosly
plenty acidic.so no its not that evident.is beer alot less acidic then rum dunder.
don't seem that beer can stay in a keg for months and not eat the metal up.

[Mikey-moo]

sorry still,but i was just wondering ,seeing that beer was in the kegs which is obviosly
plenty acidic.so no its not that evident.is beer alot less acidic then rum dunder.
don't seem that beer can stay in a keg for months and not eat the metal up.

What pH was the beer?

[shadylane]

I'd be a bit concerned about the acidity damaging the stainless over time... Have you checked the pH...???

A keg would be made out of 316 Stainless steel
That grade of stainless is noted for it's resistant to corrosion.

On a side note
I fill plastic milk jugs with backset' and store it in the freezer.
When I need backset, usually I need to cool the mash down also.

[Yummyrum]

Being a bit of a lazy SOB , I often have my keg full of Rum Dunder for several weeks at a time after a run ...after a quick rinse out , never seen any issues with it inside .

I do store my Keeper Dunder in HDPE buckets . ...incidentally My Rum Dunder has a pH of around 5 which is pretty much consistent run after run after run ...it also has a Specific gravity of around 1.055 -1.060

But then is this getting onto Dunder pit storage ?

My experience with them was that I had several ...up to eight at one stage and they all had varying degrees of mold in them .

I have to say that I found no positive benefits from using moldy Dunder and now I just keep a bucket of relatively fresh stuff to add to the next wash when I make it .

My only good tip is half your dunder into two containers so that if you have a bad Rum fermentation , you have a back up Dunder bucket to have another crack at

[Mikey-moo]

... if you have a bad Rum fermentation

Is there such a thing?

[RandyMarshCT]

My dunder pit is in a HDPE fermenting bucket and the ph is always below 5, usually 4.5 or lower. I transferred it to a different bucket about 3 months ago and cleaned the initial bucket, which had held dunder for about 1 year or so. I didn't notice any damage or pitting to the first bucket. I'm not too concerned about it since HDPE is inert, non-toxic, FDA approved, and highly resistant to strong acids (even at elevated temperature [140 F]). It does get stained from the dunder, but the only application I use those 2 buckets for is dunder storage.

[rager]

My dunder pit is in a HDPE fermenting bucket and the ph is always below 5, usually 4.5 or lower. I transferred it to a different bucket about 3 months ago and cleaned the initial bucket, which had held dunder for about 1 year or so. I didn't notice any damage or pitting to the first bucket. I'm not too concerned about it since HDPE is inert, non-toxic, FDA approved, and highly resistant to strong acids (even at elevated temperature [140 F]). It does get stained from the dunder, but the only application I use those 2 buckets for is dunder storage.

makes me feel better about leaving y dunder in HDPE buckets

[The Baker]

A word of caution on the ss fire extinguishers...
Some are chrome plated ,not true ss. Take a file with you to the scrap yard to file into them and check. Also a magnet.

But MAYBE (don't know) they are like the urn I am cleaning up to use as a still; COPPER with a very thin coating of what seems to be chrome.
And if so I would think they would be okay.
Of course they could be BRASS and that would be a no-no; lead-free brass is often (?) used now but scrap-yard stuff is probably too old for that anyway.
Geoff

[lest1]

Ill be finishing up 2 recipes that are about 8 gens in and wish to try two new recipes

Has anybody done a backset reduction for long term storage almost like a syrup that i could keep in a 4L demi for 12months or so

Can anyone see the downsides of this?

[hawkwing]

I usually put hot backset right off the run in mason jars with snap lids. I reuse old lids that aren’t scratched and they seal. Then I can store at room temp. Otherwise things tend to grow mold in buckets. Not sure if that’s what you want for a Dunder pit.

[lest1]

I usually put hot backset right off the run in mason jars with snap lids. I reuse old lids that aren’t scratched and they seal. Then I can store at room temp. Otherwise things tend to grow mold in buckets. Not sure if that’s what you want for a Dunder pit.

i was hoping to take 20l or so of backset and simmer it down to 4L into a concentrate ive looked through the forums and havnt seen anybody do this not chasing a dunder pit yet maybe next year

[hawkwing]

I usually put hot backset right off the run in mason jars with snap lids. I reuse old lids that aren’t scratched and they seal. Then I can store at room temp. Otherwise things tend to grow mold in buckets. Not sure if that’s what you want for a Dunder pit.

i was hoping to take 20l or so of backset and simmer it down to 4L into a concentrate ive looked through the forums and havnt seen anybody do this not chasing a dunder pit yet maybe next year

That might work but you’d probably get different flavors from the Maillard reaction. The reduction in size would be nice for long term storage though. Might not be much of a concern for molasses based washes as they are pretty browned already.

[howie]

if i can't fill a container up to the brim, i've been putting a layer of co2 onto the dunder/backset with no infections starting on months old stuff.
i have co2 bottles, but if you don't, why not try capturing the co2 from your ferment?
maybe after he first day or so of fermentation, when the heavier co2 has pushed all the O2 from the vessel, put the tube into something like a 2l PET bottle (or larger) and collect the co2.
do a simple test - 'pour' the co2 onto a lit candle, it should go out.
NB BITD i had to use a Davy lamp on underground structures and, before the introduction of blowers, remove asphyxiating air by lowering a bucket on a rope.
the heavier bad air would displace the contents of the bucket and then we would raise the bucket of bad air.
we used to get strange looks when we walked away from the entrance and 'emptied' the buckets of air
oh, the good old days

[NZChris]

Ill be finishing up 2 recipes that are about 8 gens in and wish to try two new recipes

Has anybody done a backset reduction for long term storage almost like a syrup that i could keep in a 4L demi for 12months or so

Can anyone see the downsides of this?

Only the energy cost. If that isn't a problem, go for it and report back.

I have dehydrated the backset from spirit runs when making lime salts, but I've not tried reducing dunder to a syrup.

If you have a preheater, you could put the Low Wines in the preheater and charge the main boiler with dunder. By doing that, you are reducing the dunder while reusing the waste energy to do the spirit run, plus saving time.

[lest1]

Ill be finishing up 2 recipes that are about 8 gens in and wish to try two new recipes

Has anybody done a backset reduction for long term storage almost like a syrup that i could keep in a 4L demi for 12months or so

Can anyone see the downsides of this?

Only the energy cost. If that isn't a problem, go for it and report back.

I have dehydrated the backset from spirit runs when making lime salts, but I've not tried reducing dunder to a syrup.

If you have a preheater, you could put the Low Wines in the preheater and charge the main boiler with dunder. By doing that, you are reducing the dunder while reusing the waste energy to do the spirit run, plus saving time.

the energy cost wouldnt compare to effort if it works i will try just thoguht somebody would hve tried by now , doesnt seem like theres been much people have done

ill have to sussyour lime salts ill do some finding if you have posted if not can you, your posts have always been very intersting

i have a 4 plate still , im not sure what a pre heater is either

[lest1]

if i can't fill a container up to the brim, i've been putting a layer of co2 onto the dunder/backset with no infections starting on months old stuff.
i have co2 bottles, but if you don't, why not try capturing the co2 from your ferment?
maybe after he first day or so of fermentation, when the heavier co2 has pushed all the O2 from the vessel, put the tube into something like a 2l PET bottle (or larger) and collect the co2.
do a simple test - 'pour' the co2 onto a lit candle, it should go out.
NB BITD i had to use a Davy lamp on underground structures and, before the introduction of blowers, remove asphyxiating air by lowering a bucket on a rope.
the heavier bad air would displace the contents of the bucket and then we would raise the bucket of bad air.
we used to get strange looks when we walked away from the entrance and 'emptied' the buckets of air
oh, the good old days

thanks for the feedback , im trying to limit the amount of jars i have hence the reduction
ill be getting a bottle of co2 soon so thats an option

thats a wild story i work in an underground mine but bucketing out bad air is next level

[lest1]

I usually put hot backset right off the run in mason jars with snap lids. I reuse old lids that aren’t scratched and they seal. Then I can store at room temp. Otherwise things tend to grow mold in buckets. Not sure if that’s what you want for a Dunder pit.

i was hoping to take 20l or so of backset and simmer it down to 4L into a concentrate ive looked through the forums and havnt seen anybody do this not chasing a dunder pit yet maybe next year

That might work but you’d probably get different flavors from the Maillard reaction. The reduction in size would be nice for long term storage though. Might not be much of a concern for molasses based washes as they are pretty browned already.

thanks the maillrd reaction is an intersting idea it could be a benefit depending on your outcome

[Saltbush Bill]

i was hoping to take 20l or so of backset and simmer it down to 4L into a concentrate ive looked through the forums and havnt seen anybody do this not chasing a dunder pit yet maybe next year

You know there is a much simpler way to do this ......that is unless you are " completely storage space challenged"...as the politically correct might say.
Make a new Rum wash using the dunder that you have, let that wash ferment out ....it need not be a huge wash ....20L -25 maybe.
Once that wash is fully fermented lock it up airtight and keep it that way..............its going to last 12 months - 2 years .....Ive heard of them lasting for 4 and 5 years before they where distilled.
When your good and ready just run that sucker and use the backset as you see fit.