Heating Element Control

[still_stirrin]

robby,

I agree with muscashine. Simply plugging another element into the receptacle would make the two element connected in parallel. That cuts the resistance load the control circuit "sees" in half, and with 1/2 the resistance the current will (try to) double. That's going to trip a breaker (if you're lucky) if it doesn't first burn something up in your controller.

Remember, V = I x R. Since the supply voltage is constant, decreasing the equivalent resistance by parallel element connection, increases the current through the circuit. hint: 1/Req = 1/R1 + 1/R2 for parallel loads.

Series connection of elements divides the supply voltage proportionally between the two resistances, such that the current is reduced (again R increases and I decreases). hint: Req = R1 + R2 for series loads.

As muscashine suggested, adding a second element is best if powered by a separate power breaker and possible even with a second controller, or on-off switch.
ss

[robby6pack]

Makes sense to me. I am really new to this, been lurking for a long time. Thanks for the advice. Will this 2000W element work for 6-8 gallons? After soldering the spud and wiring circuit, I through a few gallons of water in the keg and put the juice to it to verify that it worked. The temp got to 180 pretty quit at the mouth of the keg. I turned it off at that point (had to take my girls to volleyball practice). Again, Thanks.

[still_stirrin]

Is your boiler insulated?

That will help hold the heat in, meaning less "waste heat"....making it quicker to go "online". I use a couple of layers of Reflectex, an aluminum covered bubble wrap typically available in the big box stores as duct insulation. Get a roll of aluminum tape to tape it on the boiler and it will function and look great.
ss

[muscashine]

Makes sense to me. I am really new to this, been lurking for a long time. Thanks for the advice. Will this 2000W element work for 6-8 gallons? After soldering the spud and wiring circuit, I through a few gallons of water in the keg and put the juice to it to verify that it worked. The temp got to 180 pretty quit at the mouth of the keg. I turned it off at that point (had to take my girls to volleyball practice). Again, Thanks.

You've already got the element in place. Check it and see! Put 8 gallons in the keg and time it until it hits 190 or so.

[Smokee]

Hi fellas,

I've read about 16 pages then realized there's pretty much no end to this thread. I'm just starting out, I bought a hot plate and someone suggested I build a controller as the hot plate cycles on/off. I'd like to make one for 120v and have the schematic that was earlier in this thread. Anyone have an idea the minimum wattage for my hot plate. I picked one up as WalMart that's 900 watt and think I'm going to return it for something a bit more robust. I'm cooking with a 4 gallon stainless pot and will run about 3 gallons at a time.

Thanks in advance,
Smokee

^edit: I just checked ebay and most hot plates are about what I already have. I saw a couple 1100 watt models and Waring has one that's 1500 watts but it's $75, not sure it's worth it.

[Swedish Pride]

Hi fellas,

I've read about 16 pages then realized there's pretty much no end to this thread. I'm just starting out, I bought a hot plate and someone suggested I build a controller as the hot plate cycles on/off. I'd like to make one for 120v and have the schematic that was earlier in this thread. Anyone have an idea the minimum wattage for my hot plate. I picked one up as WalMart that's 900 watt and think I'm going to return it for something a bit more robust. I'm cooking with a 4 gallon stainless pot and will run about 3 gallons at a time.

Thanks in advance,
Smokee

^edit: I just checked ebay and most hot plates are about what I already have. I saw a couple 1100 watt models and Waring has one that's 1500 watts but it's $75, not sure it's worth it.

any reason you don't want to go for an internal element?
Would cost you about the same and be a better set up in my opinion.
And if you plan it right you can use the same element/ controller once you upgrade to a keg and 220v

[still_stirrin]

...Anyone have an idea the minimum wattage for my hot plate...900 watt...1100 watt...1500 watts...not sure it's worth it.

I built a gin still (a 16 quart stock pot boiler) and I use a modified hotplate to heat it. I bought a 1.5kW Camco commercial hotplate for $110USD and pulled the thermostat control circuit off. The stainless steel base is strong and sturdy enough to support the stock pot full of wash even with the potstill head mounted.

Then, I built a triac based power control circuit and put it in. I added a big heatsink for the triac and even added a small cooling fan. I also added an ammeter so I could monitor the current input. All in all, the hotplate build cost about $170 (buy once...cry once). But when it comes to tools...invest...don't spend.

You've got to have the right too for the job.

I would buy the biggest wattage you can find, be it 1.5kW or possibly even 1.8kW. Then build a power controller (reference the related electric accessories forum for a build). Don't get in a hurry...study and plan before buying. But know what you want, why you want it, and what you're going to do with it before you spend your money.
ss

[der wo]

For 3 gal 1.5kW will be enough, but for heating up or for a reflux you could take 3kW. I have a 2.6kW hotplate for a similar size.
You have to stop the cycling, it reduces heavily the power. If you have a cycling 1.5kW hotplate, after heat up it will start to cycle and in average only 1kW will remain. I bought a replacement part hotplate and wired it.

[LWTCS]

Placing this here for those that need it.

Many thanks to Panda and Big Pa.

[bushido]

Good day to all Been a while... Good to see some old familiar names still here

I was going to switch a keg to electric. Looking just to plug and play

Is this all I need to run a 4500 W 60Hz element?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... att+dimmer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

SainSmart AC 220V 5000W SCR Voltage Regulator Speed Controller Dimming Dimmers
by SainSmart
$18.99+ $7.49 shipping
Product Features
5000W 220V

Thanks

[jawjatek]

Here's my 240V 30A power control unit I just made. My boiler is a converted 15.5 gal keg with a Camco 5500W ULWD element. I used an inexpensive boiler control module that provides "burst fire" or "time proportional" 0-100% manual control via a 40A zero-cross switching SSR. I prefer burst to phase control, less EMI, and settings are repeatable for recording in the recipe. The SSR is a Crydom 40A D2440 (I don't use crappy Chinese SSRs), and connectors and receptacles are Leviton 6L-30 (Amazon Prime) on 3-10 SOOW cable (Lowe's or HD). Heat sink is a big one on top of the box so no fan needed. Receptacle in side of box is where you plug in the keg, cable entry is a PG21 size gland nut. Took about an hour to make start to finish (I am an EE). Works awesome and is simple to build.



Edit to add: the place that sells the controller is well-known and happens to be local to me so I can just ride over, no shipping. I am not affiliated in any way. I was going to use a scavenged metal box from work trash can, but they also sell the boxes already cut for a 1/16 DIN with heat sink so I grabbed one. So I only had to drill the holes for the receptacle and cable, and wire it up. You could do it cheaper, but I saved a lot of time (most valuable to me), plus I only had to borrow a Uni-bit from a friend.

[muscashine]

Thats a beautiful box. Mine would have scrapes and gouges in it. I prefer working with wood or plastic.

[gflower1]

Looks good JawJa! I didn't opt to go to North Ave Tech school when I had the opportunity, but maybe I should have!

[jawjatek]

Thanks, gflower1.

An EE degree, and also a state vo-tech 2yr electronics diploma, and a 2-yr eng tech AS degree, and about 2/3 of my masters (which I don't care about anymore) helps with the 'lectric stuff indeed. I confess, I was a professional college student for over 10 years. Not a bad way to spend your 20s: going to school, playing lead blues guitar all over town in bars, and pulling fine tail (1-2 out of 10 tries cause I ain't Brad Pitt, no). Not too shabby. I would not change a thing in my life. PS I paid all my student loans off early and took no money from my folks.

Nowadays I'm pushing 60, pulling 6 figures as a highly-paid professional, married with grown kids I put thru college, and still playin' guitar, as well as enjoying many cool hobbies, including this one.

To keep on topic: I am super pleased with how this keg boiler/contoller turned out. With a full charge of water it hits 173 F in @15 minutes on 100%, boils water in 30 mins. Very even heating, and the heatsink barely gets warm, no fan needed.

[gflower1]

Sounds great man! I had to Jan you a little bit, half my family went to UGA. I thought I was going to be an engineer at one point in life and applied to Tech and GaSou. Ended up going to Southern and quickly found out I wasn't meant to be a ME. After too many late nights (and playing mostly rhythm guitar) and a few Ds I switched majors. Smooth cruising ever since!

[jawjatek]

Boil test pic:

[Myndgame]

I used an inexpensive boiler control module that provides "burst fire" or "time proportional" 0-100% manual control via a 40A zero-cross switching SSR. I prefer burst to phase control, less EMI, and settings are repeatable for recording in the recipe.

Was this, by chance, a unit from Auber?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=444

Care to show a pic of inside the box?

[jawjatek]

Yes, from Auber (not affiliated in any way, they are local to me). I'll try to get a picture this evening, but the wiring is simple and straightforward. I use thick copper terminals from T&B to terminate the 10AWG copper wire to the SSR. I use high-quality 20AWG 600V hook-up wire for the controller power and control signal to the SSR, with soldered ring terminals.

[Burner61]

Hey There HDF, I'm building my first still and I was wondering if someone more experienced than me could give me some advice. I have an 8 gallon milk can pot still with a Camco 5500w element running on 220v, 10g wire and a 30amp plug. I am looking for a way to control it beyond plugging and unplugging. I've been reading up and I think I have a handle on the notion of not being able to controlling temp. From what I can gather, a 40amp SSVR on a heat sink would be a good (simple) way to regulate the power of the element. My goal, as a newbie to distilling, is to find a way to reduce the power to the element, reducing BTU's and drawing out the process. Slowing it down a bit until I can get a handle on it. It seems like 5500w will get it up to a boil soon and as the volume decreases it would boil off quicker.

The advice I'm looking for is, am I correct in my understanding that I can't control the temp, only the power to the element and by reducing the power as the volume of mash decreases, I can slow things down a bit. Buy myself some time as I learn. Thanks in advance for any help or direction

[rad14701]

The advice I'm looking for is, am I correct in my understanding that I can't control the temp, only the power to the element and by reducing the power as the volume of mash decreases, I can slow things down a bit. Buy myself some time as I learn. Thanks in advance for any help or direction

Correct... You can't control temperature, only the rate of vapor production... As you continue with your research here you will learn the WHY... Hint... It has to do with the various components in the boiler... And, no, you can't try to hold a temperature to make things happen... They happen as they happen, based on depletion of lower boiling point components... You want to control power to the element...

[Burner61]

Thanks Rad! I appreciate it. I felt like I had an ahah! moment, but wanted to make sure I wasn't too far off. So much more to learn, but thanks for the nudge. Cheers, Kevin

[Mashocist]

Man you guys are talented. After reading 100 pages and looking at diagrams I can't possibly understand, I bought a Variac.

[frdlturner]

On page 1 the diagram uses a Q6040J7 can a Q6040K7 be used instead I can get 5 Q6040K7 for $10.00

[rad14701]

On page 1 the diagram uses a Q6040J7 can a Q6040K7 be used instead I can get 5 Q6040K7 for $10.00

The only real difference is the form factor of the units themselves... They are otherwise virtually functionally identical...

[frdlturner]

Thanks rad14701

[Skippydo72]

Making the jump from gas to electric and I have a very basic question. I will be running a 60A SSVR on 240v with a single 5500w element. My wiring diagram calls for a 30A switch however I’m wiring it direct to my panel box and plan on using the breaker as my switch. I do have a plug so I can unplug it if I need to. My question is would this need to be put on a 30A breaker or on a 50A breaker? Reason for this is I have a plug already in place that is using a 50A breaker. My plan was to just use this circuit but the 30A switch on a 60A SSVR is confusing me a little. Why would you put a 30A switch on a 60A SSVR?

[Klein]

Making the jump from gas to electric and I have a very basic question. I will be running a 60A SSVR on 240v with a single 5500w element. My wiring diagram calls for a 30A switch however I’m wiring it direct to my panel box and plan on using the breaker as my switch. I do have a plug so I can unplug it if I need to. My question is would this need to be put on a 30A breaker or on a 50A breaker? Reason for this is I have a plug already in place that is using a 50A breaker. My plan was to just use this circuit but the 30A switch on a 60A SSVR is confusing me a little. Why would you put a 30A switch on a 60A SSVR?

The breaker needs to be sized to the wire you are using. Your switch also needs to be sized correctly.
In Canada by code you only load a circuit breaker to 80% of the breaker size.
5500w / 240v = 22.92A
22.92A x 1.25 = 28.65A
You need at least a 30A breaker and 10AWG wire.

[Skippydo72]

Yeah I'm using SJEOOW 10/3 wire. I think I'll just change out the breaker to a 30A and call it good.

[Klein]

Yeah I'm using SJEOOW 10/3 wire. I think I'll just change out the breaker to a 30A and call it good.

Also make sure your breaker is made to be used as a switch.

[muscashine]

Why would you put a 30A switch on a 60A SSVR?

The breaker needs to be sized to the wire you are using. Your switch also needs to be sized correctly.
In Canada by code you only load a circuit breaker to 80% of the breaker size.
5500w / 240v = 22.92A
22.92A x 1.25 = 28.65A
You need at least a 30A breaker and 10AWG wire.

The 60 amp rating on the SSVR means you can run up to 60 amps through it. But you don't have to.
Your breaker needs to be the lowest rated element in the system, so it fails FIRST. If you use a 30 amp breaker and 15 amp plugs, you're probably going to start a fire.
So, use your 60amp SSVR on a system designed to run 30 amps at the most. Your SSVR will last a LONG time. If you were constantly pushing your SSVR at nearly 60amps it's probably going to die on you pretty quick.
So like others have said: use a 30 amp breaker, 30 amp plugs (which are engineered to carry 30 amps but have a built-in tolerance to more), an element that pulls no more than 5500 watts, and run the whole thing through your 60amp SSVR. If the feces hits the air circulator, your breaker trips before anything else.