Reflux build

[Cherrybustin]

G'day,
Reflux still is under construction, made of copper, the boiler is 18 gallons. Made a tapered reflux column, not sure how it will work, we will see. Will be 80" tall when complete (bottom boiler-top of column). Still have a few question and they are as followed.

1. Thermometer, digital vs analog, or other suggestions, needs short bottom connect (3" at most).

2. Liebig condenser to run said boiler size. Have 3/4" pipe run inside of 1 1/2 copper. T at each end with 1/2" connections for cooling liquid. Need to know length of water jacket?

3. Proofing parrot, diameter? Length, alcohol meter?

Progress so far.
http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/Cherr ... g.html?o=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Hope to hear some feedback, learn, and maybe one day make some liquor.
Thanks again.

[bluefish_dist]

If you are going to use a thermometer for abv control you will need digital. Also make sure it will do .1 deg. Even with that I still use a hydrometer to verify since ambient air pressure can change the abv vs temp curve by enough to matter. Also I have found that abv can change by 1+ proof without changing measured temp. Mostly at azeo since that is the only time it's critical (commercial vodka).

[rad14701]

Your questions have all already been answered here in these forums should you take the time to do some research... Especially the dimensions of your liebig... Water weight will be excessive and won't help cooling performance... A 1/2" inside 3/4" or 3/4" inside 1" will suffice without the excessive water and copper weight... Your questions are indicators that you have not done enough research...

[shadylane]

1. Thermometer, digital vs analog, or other suggestions, needs short bottom connect (3" at most).

Definitely digital and you can get one with a long wire so you can put the therm were you can see it

2. Liebig condenser to run said boiler size. Have 3/4" pipe run inside of 1 1/2 copper. T at each end with 1/2" connections for cooling liquid. Need to know length of water jacket?

A 1" inside the 1-1/2" would work real good
As to the length, I'd say somewere between 24" and 36"

3. Proofing parrot, diameter? Length, alcohol meter?

I've built a couple of parrots but I don't use them

[Cherrybustin]

Thanks for the input.
Think I'm going to go with a brewhaus 3" solar digital and point it slightly downward so I can read it. For the condensor think I'm going to ditch athe 1 1/2 in favour of some 1" for water jacket. As for not doing my Research, you are probably right, as I just went ahead and built wasn't concearned a bout weight, just bigger must be better. This proves not to be the case. I will make necessary adjustments.
This is what I've got so far.

[still_stirrin]

Its a tapered column alright. Kinda like a real skinny onion. But it'll be barely effective for that since the area change is minimal. It would've been a lot easier just to use a pipe instead of making those cones. Oh well.

You said you're making a reflux column and you've spoke of the Liebig product condenser. What do you have planned for the reflux condenser? Seeing how you've got a tall vapor tube and no liquid or vapor control systems, I assume you're planning to make a cooling managed (CM) reflux system. Deflag...or cross tubes (not a good choice)...or concentric, or what? Design is not complete or even thought about very well.

So, with a reflux column, usually the column is stuffed with packing...to help separate the fractions during reflux. What sort of packing are you planning? With the tapered column you may have some challenges getting the packing loaded consistantly.

But I've gotta say...you've got a lot of shiny pennies in that system...from the boiler up the column and down the Liebig. And as we all know, copper is not cheap.

Bottomline here, is that your still looks like you've forged forward with a still without really knowing or understanding the process and what features do what. That indicates a shortfall in your mandatory reading. And building before you're ready usually results in a lot of rebuild and wasted expense. Get smart before you go broke.
ss

[Cherrybustin]

The tapered column is derived from what scraps of copper I had left over, had the copper pieces given to me. 3" copper pipe would have cost me more, wasn't really aiming for anything in particular when it was built on a taper. Looks better then a 3" piece of pipe. As for reflux, I'm eventually going to build a 3 shotgun to set a top. For now it will be a pot still, until I can gain some experience before it starts to get complex. As for packing, copper scrubbies are out of the question, try and find some copper rasciling rings or last resort marbles. Bought 5' of 1" copper to fix my Liebig condensor, haven't decided if it's going to be 3/4 inside 1" or 1" inside 1 1/2. Brewhaus solar digital thermometer will sit atop of this at the highest point. Hopefully the rest of tog welding will take place this weekend, we will see.

if this don't end up working in the end, the hell with it, it's a bad as piece to sit in the corner.

[ericrichards420]

If it were me I would put it in the corner and read all the required reading. By the time you read what you need to know, then you may want to replace them cones with pipe.
And place a shotgun condenser at the top? umm I think you need to do more reading before posting.

[shadylane]

The tapered column is derived from what scraps of copper I had left over, had the copper pieces given to me. 3" copper pipe would have cost me more, wasn't really aiming for anything in particular when it was built on a taper.

Kinda looks like the copper on the tapered column was tig welded together
Have you got anymore pic's or words about how and why you built it the way you did

[Cherrybustin]

If it were me I would put it in the corner and read all the required reading. By the time you read what you need to know, then you may want to replace them cones with pipe.
And place a shotgun condenser at the top? umm I think you need to do more reading before posting.

Replacing the cones with pipe is out of the question, I will ditch the reflux design and run it as a pot still, before that happens. And what is there to gain by doing so? And mind enlightening me on the difference between a shotgun and a deflag? Length, location?

The tapered column is derived from what scraps of copper I had left over, had the copper pieces given to me. 3" copper pipe would have cost me more, wasn't really aiming for anything in particular when it was built on a taper.

Kinda looks like the copper on the tapered column was tig welded together
Have you got anymore pic's or words about how and why you built it the way you did

The column is in fact tig welded, as well as a few other odds and ends. Boiler used different locks and seams and will be silver solder, along with all other fittings, and tri clamps. As for why I built it this way, it was loosely based of a design from coppermoonshinestills.com. I was limited on design due to only having pieces of copper given to me. The boiler came first and used up a good chunk of my pieces. As for the column it would have been nice to have it shorter and fatter, but when I laid my frustums out my left over pieces would just not allow it, so I said the hell with it we'll go taller and as fat as we can. I may have 1 square foot left.

Hoping to forge a head later tonight, pics to follow.

[ericrichards420]

If it were me I would put it in the corner and read all the required reading. By the time you read what you need to know, then you may want to replace them cones with pipe.
And place a shotgun condenser at the top? umm I think you need to do more reading before posting.

Replacing the cones with pipe is out of the question, I will ditch the reflux design and run it as a pot still, before that happens. And what is there to gain by doing so? And mind enlightening me on the difference between a shotgun and a deflag? Length, location?

Ok, first of all if you are going to ditch the whole reflux still idea then you should know that the potstill don't need to be near that height, You should figure out what it is that you are trying to build before jumping right in. What do you really want? A ccvm, vm, lm, potstill? A deflag is commonly used in a flute as a reflux condenser, where a shotgun condenser is used as a product condenser and the spec's on how to build either of these are in the forums for you to research.
Look I'm not trying to come off as an ass, just trying to help. I'm just saying you have alot of reading to do first.

[shadylane]

Made a tapered reflux column, not sure how it will work, we will see.

Tapered is an unusual shape for a reflux column
It would be difficult to pack with Scubbies
But marbles or scoria would work.
What design of reflux condenser are you thinking about ?

[Cherrybustin]

Havnt had any time to progress on the build. Thinking about a cooling management setup. Second guessing myself on reflux condensor. Would there be any benefit to having a dimroth or cold finger partially immersed in my packing media. Packing media is still undetermined, mist likely marbles for ease of availability, use. Only concern at this point may be the weight.
Thanks

[still_stirrin]

...Would there be any benefit to having a dimroth or cold finger partially immersed in my packing media?

Nope. In fact, it'll be counterproductive. The reflux condenser should be above the packing such that the vapor condenses in the condenser and drips back through the rising vapors. This process is what purifys the product.
ss

[cranky]

I don't see the problem with the original plan or am I missing something? The way I understand it Cherrybustin is planning on making this a dual use CM with a typical shotgun Dephlemator on top then going to a liebig product condenser. So what if the shape is a little unconventional. Stick a dephleg on top, pack it with lava rock or marbles and see how it runs, who knows maybe there is an advantage to widening a column in the middle.

[MoonBreath]

Looks alright to me ...The torpedo shape will provide some expansion, not a bad thing...A proper RC, a 2" or 3"elbow (depending on prefererence) reduced to 1/2 or 3/4", a copper to copper w/brass nut union, an elbow, then your liebig, which you can swivel to adjust jar placement and/or take-off...Also removeabilty for storage or usage elsewhere...The original Colonel Wilson design is fixed downward with water lines from liebig routed thru column which as stated below is not preferred.
Make sure you run a common design RC, without any water lines runnin thru the column as most of Vaughn Wilson's designs use ...That only causes smearing and future re-modifying ..I'd pack it with copper mesh for starters (much less weight), then experiment with other materials ..I'd rock with that, see what you may need to change, heck, down the road you may want to cut it apart at the center and install a Bubble Plate .
Nice work, by the way.

[Cherrybustin]

Still not really any progress. Reading and learning(Slowly, not a fan). waiting on 1" tri clamps from china for Liebig, as well as thermometer. still undecided on reflux condensor. Need to figure out cooling system plumbing, want to be able to run with or without RC (potstill/reflux).

[MoonBreath]

The 180° bend will prolly put your liebig close to your column and actual product way to close to any open flame ...That configuration you're contemplating is Safe only on electric element fired machines...Noticing you haven't mentioned a charging/heating preference...Parrots are ok, but Always be good at Not using one before using a parrot ...Also, a drain would be proper, considering size and design.

[ericrichards420]

Its looking good, but if your going to be firing this thing with propane your product condenser should be a lil farther from your heat source.
Other than that, its looking good.

[Cherrybustin]

It's been a day or two, got busy at work, and this got put on the side burner. Need to get back at this so I can have liquor before summer comes. Have a few concerns.

1. dephlag/shotgun (3")- need advice on pipe size (see image) and how long would this need to be to achieve full reflux, yet not overkill. Copper pipe will be used for pipes.

2. Thermometer(s)- can I get away with a single thermometer at the top of column, or must I have one before the reflux condensor? Do I need one on the boiler?

Boiler will likely be fired via propane, there is 1 1/2" drain in boiler. There is 3 1/2- 4" between Liebig and closest part of column.
Thanks.

[still_stirrin]

Seven 1/2"ID (5/8"OD) vapor tubes will be plenty. They'll have the capacity to easily manage the vapor flow up your 3"ID column.

I would suggest putting a twisted piece of flattened copper into each of the vapor tubes too, as it will increase the thermal conductivity from the vapor flow to the water jacket. If the vapor tubes were smaller diameter, there would be no advantage to it. But since your tubes are 1/2"ID, I would add them as you assemble the tube bank. Some builders put a little scrubby into the vapor tubes, but I think a twisted flat strap will be quite effective. It should fit snuggly into the vapor tube so that it contacts the walls of the 1/2" pipe.

Also, in the water jacket, you could put a couple of baffles so that the cooling water swirls around the tube bank when flowing. That will keep the condenser from developing "hot spots" and "cold zones". Better heat transfer this way....less water flow needed.

How long are you making the dephlag? I'd suggest 6-8" nominally.
ss

[shadylane]

Some thing I learned the hard way, Even though it looks like a good idea
Stuffing a dephleg with a twisted flat strap is counter productive.
I'm guessing, hot vapor heats up the bottom of the twisted flat strap
Then the copper conducts the heat up to the top.
Thereby upsetting the dephleg

[still_stirrin]

Some thing I learned the hard way...Stuffing a dephleg with a twisted flat strap is counter productive.

Too effective...or disruptive? Did it reduce the knockdown capacity of the dephlag? Or did it create instability in the vapor flow?

I'm curious to your observations...
ss

[Cherrybustin]

Appreciate the insight,
Wouldn't lengthening the dephlag itself have same affect as putting something in vapour path? What would you suggest for a baffle?
One digital thermometer at top of column suffice? As for cooling lines to my Rc where do I put my valve? Do I run these in series or separate from one another?