Mash from JUST Cornstarch

[DWelsh]

I would like to experiment by mashing only grocery store cornstarch and using enzymes to convert the starch to sugar. If anyone has experimented with this before, I would love to hear from you. I tried this a while back but found out how potent the cornstarch can really be, as my 4 gallon pot was completely filled with a thick white glop after just one pound of corn starch was added. I have been researching and trying to find out how many pounds of pure starch you can get from a pound of cracked corn, so I would have a good idea of how much pure starch to use. I'm basically just wondering how this would turn out and if it would make a smooth 'vodka' like spirit. I'm not after any specific style result. If anyone has any ideas, throw them my way and I will get back to you all on the turn out. Thanks

[still_stirrin]

Believe it or not...this very question is actively being discussed in this thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=64693

I know its worlds easier to ask the question than to search and read. But that's just lazy. I understand you're new here, so THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

[Snackson]

THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

Is this part necessary? That is one of the HUGE problems with this place.

[seamusm53]

THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

Is this part necessary? That is one of the HUGE problems with this place.

I HEARTILY concur. The post he LAZILY didn't find was posted less than 24 hrs earlier under 'recipe development' which is a forum section I've never even been aware of and I have been watching this site (and the parent site) routinely for 2-3 years.

Lighten up guys.

[DWelsh]

Believe it or not...this very question is actively being discussed in this thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=64693

I know its worlds easier to ask the question than to search and read. But that's just lazy. I understand you're new here, so THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

still_stirrin , how smart does it make you feel to be such a condescending twat to a stranger in an intenet forum? There are too many of you condescending and rude jackasses in this forum. You'de think a forum about making moonshine would be full of friendly common people happy to help, but I always feel like I'm surrounded by pretentious wine snobs in turtle necks who look down their noses at everybody. Go get a life.

[DWelsh]

Believe it or not...this very question is actively being discussed in this thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=64693

I know its worlds easier to ask the question than to search and read. But that's just lazy. I understand you're new here, so THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

still_stirrin: Thanks for that link. The guy is using POTATO starch, so thats why no results came up when I did search for corn starch. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back though for being a forum hero and calling out the "new guys" who have been members for over a year.

[Blarney Stoned]

DWelsh, you have a PM waiting.

[seamusm53]

This is a link to corn starch manufacturing and science.

https://corn.org/wp-content/uploads/200 ... ch2006.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

About 70-72% of whole/cracked corn is starch by weight. While corn starch if I am reading this correctly is 100% starch.

[DWelsh]

This is a link to corn starch manufacturing and science.

https://corn.org/wp-content/uploads/200 ... ch2006.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

About 70-72% of whole/cracked corn is starch by weight. While corn starch if I am reading this correctly is 100% starch.

Thank you, thats the information I was after.

[rad14701]

Believe it or not...this very question is actively being discussed in this thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=64693

I know its worlds easier to ask the question than to search and read. But that's just lazy. I understand you're new here, so THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

To those members who think this post was not in the best taste, you are the ones who are wrong... There is absolutely nothing wrong with putting folks on notice, even new members, that we don't do their work for you at their beckon call... We expect (yes, "we", not just me personally) members to do their own research "before" asking for help... We currently live in a society where people want the easy way out all the time... "I want it all, I want it now, and I don't want to work for it!"

Trust me, and I've said it before, I read virtually every post here and we go through cycles of excessive coddling here... Then when members try to thwart that activity and get members back to suggesting independent research there are a choice few members who feel the need to berate those giving that helpful nudge... This is counter-productive and brings undue discord to the membership... And telling said members to just not post for fear of upsetting someones fragile feelings does a disservice to those who truly spend countless hours here doing things other than posting in off-topic discussions or drunk-posting... Not to mention how these posts, including this one, drag discussions further off-topic... But this post is far more important to the well-being of these forums than admonishing members who truly have everyones best interests in mind...

Concentrate more on "what" was said than "how" it was said... still_stirrins comment was accurate, to the point, and conveyed its intended message... Nobody is going to be permanently scarred by any posts made here... We're all adults and can handle posts that are to the point... Trust me, some of us care about these forums and this craft far more than others here may think... And, no, it's not an ego thing before anyone tries playing that card...

[der wo]

This is a link to corn starch manufacturing and science.

https://corn.org/wp-content/uploads/200 ... ch2006.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

About 70-72% of whole/cracked corn is starch by weight. While corn starch if I am reading this correctly is 100% starch.

Thank you, thats the information I was after.

But it's wrong.
Even if it looks very dry, corn starch (like potato starch) has a water content of around 12-16%. So the starch content is only around 83-86%. Around 1% is proteins and fat.

I wrote it in the other thread too...

[Snackson]

Suggesting independent research (Rule 3) is one thing. Throwing extra crap out there to boost your own ego while talking down to others is another thing. If you don't want to help out, move along. There is no need for the extra comments. I too read a lot of posts. I see plenty that I don't wish to participate in and have minimal interest to me and move along, rather than just post nonsense.

Here's an example of what could have been said better, which was actually posted by SS himself,

"Do you know how to use the HDGoogle search? There's a hotlink in my signature. Learn how...it's a "priceless" for membership here. I GUARANTEE all your questions have been asked and answered before. So, if you use the tool you can learn before becoming offended.

In fact, "self-help" is much encouraged here."

Nothing stressing the fact that THIS time he will help and next time he might not. Freely promote the research aspect and teach the HD Google. Violating Rule 2 for the sake that you think you are above the rules, not cool. "But I get tired of saying things for the 1000 time." Well, stop, stop responding then and saying the same thing over and over. No one is forcing you to post, you are choosing to.

[der wo]

Better ten premium posts from still_stirrin and one post like this than zero posts from him.

[DWelsh]

Believe it or not...this very question is actively being discussed in this thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=64693

I know its worlds easier to ask the question than to search and read. But that's just lazy. I understand you're new here, so THIS time I gave you a link. Next time, I may not.
ss

To those members who think this post was not in the best taste, you are the ones who are wrong... There is absolutely nothing wrong with putting folks on notice, even new members, that we don't do their work for you at their beckon call... We expect (yes, "we", not just me personally) members to do their own research "before" asking for help... We currently live in a society where people want the easy way out all the time... "I want it all, I want it now, and I don't want to work for it!"

Trust me, and I've said it before, I read virtually every post here and we go through cycles of excessive coddling here... Then when members try to thwart that activity and get members back to suggesting independent research there are a choice few members who feel the need to berate those giving that helpful nudge... This is counter-productive and brings undue discord to the membership... And telling said members to just not post for fear of upsetting someones fragile feelings does a disservice to those who truly spend countless hours here doing things other than posting in off-topic discussions or drunk-posting... Not to mention how these posts, including this one, drag discussions further off-topic... But this post is far more important to the well-being of these forums than admonishing members who truly have everyones best interests in mind...

Concentrate more on "what" was said than "how" it was said... still_stirrins comment was accurate, to the point, and conveyed its intended message... Nobody is going to be permanently scarred by any posts made here... We're all adults and can handle posts that are to the point... Trust me, some of us care about these forums and this craft far more than others here may think... And, no, it's not an ego thing before anyone tries playing that card...

If I may paraphrase what Rad said, "If you are not already a seasoned expert distiller, don't you dare ask questions here". Rad, you need to get a life and stop taking your status in this internet forum so seriously.
Still_Stirrin was absolutely wrong. The link he provided did not address my question and used a different type of starch completey. I did search before hand, and nothing came up for what exactly I was trying to do.
If I ask a question that you can not answer, do not answer. Its that simple. Your opinion is worthless to me if you cant provide some productive advice. This is an internet forum for people to help each other and spread ideas. Condescending low-lifes have no real purpose here.

[DWelsh]

To everyone who wants to stand on my nuts about asking this question as if I did 0 research of my own: You are wrong. I researched this for quite a while, and wasn't able to find any information on using JUST cornstarch and enzymes to make shine. I was also hoping to hear from other people who have done it themselves and get their testimonies, but instead we are talking about how righteous it is to accuse other members of not researching for themselves. Before you accuse someone of not researching their question, research it yourself, and see if there actually is information on it or not. If you feel like you need to give EVERY poster a piece of your mind, regardless of how useless your advice is, then I pitty you. This is for you rad14701 and still_stirrin. You guys should read the 2nd rule in "the rules we live by" because you two are soiling it.

[dukethebeagle120]

agreed.i to enjoy this forum 'but often find some users to be "crabby" at times.
if were here to research but not to converse whats the point of joining a forum.

[ShineRunner]

Dude, get over yourself. Do you need a "safe space" here? Perhaps we need to create a new sub-forum where people can go when their feelings get hurt?

Stop thinking about yourself. Take your whipping, lick your wounds and move on with life. You may not have been rightly accused of something, but make that known and then move on.

As a relative newbie myself, I personally appreciate Rad and SS's contributions greatly and don't want to lose them as resources because they get tired of spoon-feeding newbies. Whenever I search for something, 75% of my questions have been answered multiple times in the past by several of these great contributors. I'm grateful for that.

Back on topic: It seems that either nobody knows the answer to your question, or everybody else is so turned off by your attitude that they don't want to help you now.

Probably the best course of action is to experiment and find out for yourself. If you want to return here and report your results, I'm sure the community will appreciate it. If not, then I guess our hobby will never know the benefits of using cornstarch unless you share. The world needs trailblazers. The people that do their own research and then provide that to the group are the ones that provide some of the greatest benefit to our great hobby.

Good luck.

[DWelsh]

Dude, get over yourself. Do you need a "safe space" here? Perhaps we need to create a new sub-forum where people can go when their feelings get hurt?

Stop thinking about yourself. Take your whipping, lick your wounds and move on with life. You may not have been rightly accused of something, but make that known and then move on.

As a relative newbie myself, I personally appreciate Rad and SS's contributions greatly and don't want to lose them as resources because they get tired of spoon-feeding newbies. Whenever I search for something, 75% of my questions have been answered multiple times in the past by several of these great contributors. I'm grateful for that.

Back on topic: It seems that either nobody knows the answer to your question, or everybody else is so turned off by your attitude that they don't want to help you now.

Probably the best course of action is to experiment and find out for yourself. If you want to return here and report your results, I'm sure the community will appreciate it. If not, then I guess our hobby will never know the benefits of using cornstarch unless you share. The world needs trailblazers. The people that do their own research and then provide that to the group are the ones that provide some of the greatest benefit to our great hobby.

Good luck.

Haha, I think you suffer from the same illness as those other two. I've actually enjoyed replying to these worthless posters, you included. Since you want to bring the modern political rhetoric into a forum and out of context, then stop cucking yourself to posters that help no-one. I'll just ask you if you need a safe space as a response to any rebuttal you post and give myself a pat on the back.

[DWelsh]

While its been fun engaging in such an epic forum war, I am still really interested if anyone else has tried this already and wants to share their experience. I'll check out the potato starch thread and see whats going on their, but I would like to hear from people who have experimented with using JUST corn starch and enzymes. How the final product tasted, if its worth doing, etc... Thank you

[greggn]

I posted the following a few months back ...

******************
Friday evening I found myself alone in the house when, poking around the pantry looking for dinner, I spied a 1-lb box of corn starch. Nearing the end of my second AG wheat vodka I thought "let's give it a try." So, a pound of corn starch dissolved into a gallon of water, heated to 190F, I added a splash of HTL and stirred occasionally for 30 minutes. At 140F I added a splash of GL and stirred occasionally for 30 minutes. Checked with my refractometer and OG was 1.045 ... right on the mark per the calculators. I pitched some baker's yeast an wrapped it up in a towel. It was still bubbling on Sunday morning (about 36 hours later) which surprised me because I had added no nutrients nor supplied any external heat and yet the FG measured 0.993 for an ABV of 6.7%

******************

[Bigbob]

So how did it turn out?

[DWelsh]

I posted the following a few months back ...

******************
Friday evening I found myself alone in the house when, poking around the pantry looking for dinner, I spied a 1-lb box of corn starch. Nearing the end of my second AG wheat vodka I thought "let's give it a try." So, a pound of corn starch dissolved into a gallon of water, heated to 190F, I added a splash of HTL and stirred occasionally for 30 minutes. At 140F I added a splash of GL and stirred occasionally for 30 minutes. Checked with my refractometer and OG was 1.045 ... right on the mark per the calculators. I pitched some baker's yeast an wrapped it up in a towel. It was still bubbling on Sunday morning (about 36 hours later) which surprised me because I had added no nutrients nor supplied any external heat and yet the FG measured 0.993 for an ABV of 6.7%

******************

Greggn, thank you for that. You put this thread back on track. I'll be experimenting with it today as well. I will probably actually go large scale and see what a final product is like. The reason I got interested in this was because I've been told that all grain mashes have a smoother final product than using cane sugar. I hate messing with giant pots and bulky grains, so I'm thinking this could be a good alternative option to the traditional "granulated sugar and corn" sour mash style recipe. If anyone else has some ideas, put them out there. Thanks

[greggn]

> So how did it turn out?


I poured it down the drain. My interest was simply to see how closely real-life tracked with theory.

[Tapeman]

I've used corn sugar added to AG mash with good fermenting and final SG results. It smells very clean fermenting, we'll see how the final product ages out. It's on oak since running through end of December. Seems to me dextrose or corn starch would not make much difference except in conversion process. But I'm no pro (or turtle neck)... Just sayin... if others must bitch about lack of research, maybe don't pick the scab and just leave it alone. I seem to think there is a similar forum online for professional development

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[DWelsh]

So I tried a small gallon sized batch, similar to Greggn. I used a pound of starch to a gallon with tap water(since I wont be fermenting this one). I used regular amylase enzymes from my brew shop as the instructions said. I must have left it on for two hours around 155 degrees and kept adding enzymes later on just to see if it would taste sweet. The starch gelatinized, but after about 40 minutes it was back to being liquidy. It looked clear and really viscous compared to when I started(milky white) but still didn't taste sweet at all. Is it possible that regular amylase enzymes arent enough for this? I know there are other high temp enzymes out there, but Im not sure if I need them. Is it possible that it turned into sugar but just not a sweet sugar? Any advice on this would be great. Thanks

[greggn]

In all likelihood your enzyme was an alpha-amylase which facilitates the liquefaction of starches. You'll need a glucoamylase to further break down the starches into glucose.

I *highly* recommend you visit https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=common/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rgreen2002]

...and here: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... Conversion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[der wo]

So I tried a small gallon sized batch, similar to Greggn. I used a pound of starch to a gallon with tap water(since I wont be fermenting this one). I used regular amylase enzymes from my brew shop as the instructions said. I must have left it on for two hours around 155 degrees and kept adding enzymes later on just to see if it would taste sweet. The starch gelatinized, but after about 40 minutes it was back to being liquidy. It looked clear and really viscous compared to when I started(milky white) but still didn't taste sweet at all. Is it possible that regular amylase enzymes arent enough for this? I know there are other high temp enzymes out there, but Im not sure if I need them. Is it possible that it turned into sugar but just not a sweet sugar? Any advice on this would be great. Thanks

Even if it will be a success and it tastes better than a tried and true sugarhead, no one will believe you, because of the lack of practice posted here. Sorry, it's not fair, but reality, it's always difficult to believe AG results from members without much AG knowledge and practice.

Edit: If it doesn't taste sweet, the sugar is mainly unfermentable. You need other enzymes, for example the ones greggn posted.

[DWelsh]

In all likelihood your enzyme was an alpha-amylase which facilitates the liquefaction of starches. You'll need a glucoamylase to further break down the starches into glucose.

I *highly* recommend you visit https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=common/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks greggn. How much of those enzymes would you have to use on a 10 gallon batch? They looked pricey. Also, I wonder if malted white corn would have the right types of enzymes to convert the starches into fermentable sugars. I made some corn malt last summer and it was surprisingly easy(no mold at all). I live in Colorado where its usually really dry, so malting my own corn isn't too much of a risk for me.

[cuginosgrizzo]

Also, I wonder if malted white corn would have the right types of enzymes to convert the starches into fermentable sugars.

It does, but the content of enzymes in malted corn are so low that it can barely convert itself, and not the extra starch in your mash. Malted barley would work, added at about 25% of your grain bill, but that defeats the purpose of your experiment.