Got letter from TBB today..

[Antler24]

Yea but they reserve the right to still request the information!

so in laymens terms manufacturers are no longer required to send personal info regarding till purchases to the TTB, unless reason arises and they request it.
Maybe something can be worked out with the still manufacturer. If TTB contacts them and asks for info the manufacturer contacts the folks and kindly gives them a heads up that they are in the spotlight, giving enough time to dispose of or relocate anything.

Most of them are doing that now, but if you say you sold it they will probably want more detailed info.

Weigh your still. Collect exact amount of scrap copper, stainless, whatever your still is made of. Bring it to metal recycler and get signed receipt. TTB wants more info, you destroyed it and sold it for scrap.

[LWTCS]

All venders received this letter.
Imo, there are several factors in play.

1)Rick Morris' s team is gaining traction.
2)TTB is struggling to to keep up with processing DSP applications.
3) At this moment between all the vendors, there are many many thousands of customers.
The TTB ( and the IRS ) are guaranteed more revenues by focusing on the segment of their job description that will get more revenues with the least amount of effort. Pro distillers and vendors alike are lining up and in some cases waiting in line to give the government money.

At this time wasting resources on a project that will create a cash deficit is simply a bad business model......IMO.

I do not at all believe it is a "trick".

[Jimbo]

+1 The voice of reason. Thanks Larry.

[Bushman]

I agree it is not a trick, my comment if you read the letter only left the door open if they choose to ask at a later date!

[Jimbo]

Im surprised they sent that letter. It was very considerate of them, weird for a govt agency to care like that. They could have just let it go, to keep a little fear percolating. I agree they could spring the question again at any time, and still do expect records to be kept for 3 years.

[Usge]

The way I read the letter, the vendors are still required to "gather and keep" the records of purchases, etc....they just don't have to automatically "send" it anymore...ie., until it's requested.

[milehidistilling]

Could be a ruse to get folks to start buying from vendors again instead of building so once people drop their guards they can swoop in and have more new information (read, evidence) to work with...

Just my thought on this.
The letter really did not slow us down much if any we had the same amount of sales last year about 30 stills a week.
I think thy got tired of all the phone calls and extra paper work and realized it really was not slowing down the hobby.
They can always comeback and ask so keep the stills clean and things put away.

[rad14701]

They can always comeback and ask so keep the stills clean and things put away.

And that was my point, precisely...!!!

[Hilltop]

I keep seeing people say I got a letter because I bought a still, well I hate to tell ya, that ain't all they got. They have your website traffic if you do not use Tor and a vpn. They most likey compile each post you make on any forum for distilling right by your letter.

All online traffic is monitored. This has been public knowledge for years. Facebook is the best spy program ever invented. When. I say website traffic I mean all! They know what type of still you bought and are most likely compiling a list of each enzyme you ordered.

In my opinion posting pics of your setup is not wise, it's proof against you that you foolishly posted. I also hate to break it to some but the feds have long been infltrating various forums , you can bet a few are on here typing like your buddy while looking for larger setups and those that are selling.

Because of forum rules I can't say the real reason why in my opinion home distillation will never be legal but in short your taking money out of somebody's pocket.

In short don't buy any distiller online and that should be put at the top of page 1.

[Pikey]

That's all very interesting Hilltop and it is true that any of those things you say "They have..." - 'they' could have - given enough diligence on their part.

However, What exactly is the point ? of gathering and keeping all this "information" and doing diddly squat about it ?

Are "they" waiting for some signal flare when they'll be knocking all our doors down to investigate how much we have defrauded the treasury out of with our "Airstill" - or 'T500' ? How will they put us all in jail ? WE pay duty and tax on everything we use - the brewshops pay duty and tax on everything they sell us - including the stills.

We do NOT sell our product - so where are 'they' losing out ?

And if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

[raketemensch]

Also, don’t produce mass quantities, and don’t sell.

These are general rules of the forums, and when anyone breaks them they get dogpiled.

There’s a reason why your reply is the first one in 2 years...

[Hilltop]

That's all very interesting Hilltop and it is true that any of those things you say "They have..." - 'they' could have - given enough diligence on their part.

However, What exactly is the point ? of gathering and keeping all this "information" and doing diddly squat about it ?

Are "they" waiting for some signal flare when they'll be knocking all our doors down to investigate how much we have defrauded the treasury out of with our "Airstill" - or 'T500' ? How will they put us all in jail ? WE pay duty and tax on everything we use - the brewshops pay duty and tax on everything they sell us - including the stills.

We do NOT sell our product - so where are 'they' losing out ?

And if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

Sounds like the letters have slowed up, In my opinion " They" were just sending a message, but make no mistake if you got a letter your in a database now. Come on Pikey I'm aware of the rules but neither me nor you are so foolish, some are selling it. The Government is broke they traded off all our gold years ago to a banking cartel called the fed.

Your last question

if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

Well that one is easy, they are making tax money from the still makers. The stills don't bother me, it's the supply shops supplies that do. Just purchasing certain ingredients is proof your making liquer not beer.

The point of keeping this info and scaring the hell out of everybody with letters was a type of warning shot across the bow. Americans have been screaming for years about these damn lists, hell the SPLC goons put little old lady war protesters on a list now.

Lists are proof we are in a state of tyranny today that makes Joseph Stalin look like a poster boy. If the govmnt could put a meter on your old lady's vagina they would charge you for that too.

Who knows with today's technology....

[Hilltop]

Also, don’t produce mass quantities, and don’t sell.

These are general rules of the forums, and when anyone breaks them they get dogpiled.

There’s a reason why your reply is the first one in 2 years...

Well I wasn't here two years ago or I would have replied then, sorry for my late response. It doesn't matter if you make one damn drop in my state or many others. In some just owning a still is illegal. So quantity and selling are really not the issue.

These folks are not getting letters because they sold to a rat or produced too much they are getting letters because your Government in all it's tyrannical madness forced legal business to turn over info on private citizens which unless they can prove a law was broken is a violation of the 4th amendment.

I'm more worried about my guns than liquer, all gun owners are in a Communist database too. But now we getting off track.

[shadylane]

Lists are proof we are in a state of tyranny today that makes Joseph Stalin look like a poster boy.

Surely you jest

[Pikey]

..............And if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

................they traded off all our gold years ago to a banking cartel called the fed.

Your last question -----if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

.......................The stills don't bother me, it's the supply shops supplies that do. Just purchasing certain ingredients is proof your making liquer not beer.

What ingedients are those then HT ?

[Pikey]

..............And if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

................they traded off all our gold years ago to a banking cartel called the fed.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grip-Death-Sla ... p+of+death

[EDIT - take a look at whatit is really all about - xxx ]

[Hilltop]

Picking my brain are we? Lol! Good I'm no agevnt provacatur but hey ya never no nowdays. Turbo yeast and certain enzymes are a couple, use your noggin and you will figure out more.

I'm certainly not aware of folks getting letters or being targeted for
" ingredients" but if they were I would venture to say 90% of the people who do this, order crap online.

In short buy no still or still parts online! period end of story and that should be on the front page in bold in the new member section. Just my two cents, take it with a grain of salt.

[Hilltop]

..............And if 'they' are so interested, why don't they even go so far as to stop the sale of these premade stills ?

................they traded off all our gold years ago to a banking cartel called the fed.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grip-Death-Sla ... p+of+death

[EDIT - take a look at whatit is really all about - xxx ]

You would roll over laughing if you knew who you just sent that too! Lol! Let's just say I been awake for years Pikey. Good to see others are. I gotta go check this corn temp y'all have a good evening!

[Pikey]

This is a fairly serious thread - Please don't contaminate it with garbage

[Hilltop]

This is a fairly serious thread - Please don't contaminate it with garbage

Who you talking too? I believe your the one posting links to books. Drop the attitude buddy. Go take ya a snort and climb down off that horse.

[HDNB]

ok that's enough of a mess here. let's keep it on topic.

[LWTCS]

Also, don’t produce mass quantities, and don’t sell.

These are general rules of the forums, and when anyone breaks them they get dogpiled.

There’s a reason why your reply is the first one in 2 years...

Well I wasn't here two years ago or I would have replied then, sorry for my late response. It doesn't matter if you make one damn drop in my state or many others. In some just owning a still is illegal. So quantity and selling are really not the issue.

These folks are not getting letters because they sold to a rat or produced too much they are getting letters because your Government in all it's tyrannical madness forced legal business to turn over info on private citizens which unless they can prove a law was broken is a violation of the 4th amendment.

There was an uptick in illegal likker sales a couple years ago. Or we could say that illegal likker sales were more on the radar lets say?
The authority having jurisdiction attempted to cross reference known hot spots with customer info from vendors, hoping that the info would greatly minimize the man hours needed to locate "perps". In retrospect it seems clear that stopping hobby distilling is only at least as successful as "Prohibition" was. Yeah,,,,,not at all successful.

Many are convinced that the "Government in all it's tyrannical madness" with respect to the spirits game, is simply pressure being exerted by the big boy likker outfits that have been in business since the end of Prohibition.
Many are convinced that it is indeed about selling, sales, and/or the like.

[HDNB]

Many are convinced that it is indeed about selling, sales, and/or the like.

For our Canadian members...In Canada, i have it on fairly good authority that the excise people could not possibly care less about personal use home distilling. Start selling and you better have your ducks in a row.

This information comes from a letter a (new) still vendor i met got from the Excise tax office giving their blessing to him doing business...in total opposition to their own laws in the excise tax act (section 60.2 or 62.1 or some such) That says even owning/possessing a still is good for 5 birthdays and/or up to 500k in fines....

so i ain't handing out legal advise, but seeing the letter on official letterhead, i then phone the guy who wrote it in the excise office and he confirmed the same.

FWIW

[LWTCS]

Many are convinced that it is indeed about selling, sales, and/or the like.

For our Canadian members...In Canada, i have it on fairly good authority that the excise people could not possibly care less about personal use home distilling. Start selling and you better have your ducks in a row.

This information comes from a letter a (new) still vendor i met got from the Excise tax office giving their blessing to him doing business...in total opposition to their own laws in the excise tax act (section 60.2 or 62.1 or some such) That says even owning/possessing a still is good for 5 birthdays and/or up to 500k in fines....

so i ain't handing out legal advise, but seeing the letter on official letterhead, i then phone the guy who wrote it in the excise office and he confirmed the same.

FWIW

Are you referring equipment sales or likker sales?
Equipment wise, it's up to the end user to take responsibility. Vender wise, distilling is indeed a legal industry. So as long as the vendor maintains any of the requisite permits,licensing and stays compliant there is no issue thus far. The vendor is not the custodian of the equipment after the sale.

[HDNB]

Sorry Larry, i was not clear.

The laws are on possession of a still without the requisite licensing. Likker sales and illicit likker sales have a bunch of their own laws, federally and provincially depending on the circumstance...

so the letter i saw was for possession for the purpose of reselling (small, hobby sized) equipment. The conversation with the OC at excise tax was along the lines of "how is it possible" to license a guy to sell stills for home distillers when your law says you can't have possession of one...and he replied there is zero interest in home distillers for their own use -but- woebetidethemutherfucker who sells a drop without the appropriate licensing.

even worse was his cautions about being licensed and selling illicit booze, apparently those folks are the ones they like to string up by their toenails. ( Meaning the local licensed micro-distillery selling out the backdoor without making the tax remittance.) They have undercover "agents" on federal and provincial levels looking for this... I met one just 3 months ago.

again -not legal advise- just what i saw in another guys hands and heard with my own ears, but i ain't got it in writing...and i did ask if he (the excise boss man) would send me an email to that end (the no interest in busting home distillers) and he politely declined.

[Hilltop]

I garuntee you they are watching the sales of these so called " essential oil" distillers. Even the state level agencys like in Colorodo where Marijuana is legal. The Feds are not stupid, so if one thing looks good for the home distiller it's this

"The Feds see the millions in lost tax revenue they could be capitalizing on."

The problem is a political one, in today's age of tough drinking and driving laws and other tough liquer laws, then promoting " by allowing" home distiller permits, then in the Bible belt states it would be used against any candidate.

That equals a loss for any candidate

I would venture to say most of us don't live in liberal city's that will most likely get home distilation status first. Sad.

[shadylane]

When was the last time someone got a letter from the TBB

[Still Life]

When was the last time someone got a letter from the TBB

I'm in Missouri so maybe I don't count.
Bought my Brewhaus PSII this past February.
=nuttin' so far=

[Pikey]

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

[Still Life]

Thomas Gray wrote:
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."