Highest ABV to charge still

[rickyaifd]

It is my understanding that you should never charge the still with any mash, wash,or low wines, more than 40% ABV or 80 proof. Am I correct in my understanding? I've seen various commentary talking about 40%, 30%, but it isn't clear if that is 40 proof which is 20% ABV or 30 proof which is only 15% ABV.
I just want to make clear in my understanding that the total alcohol by volume should be no more than 40% ABV going into your still at any one time

[CopperFiend]

Yeah, we normally recommend no higher than 40% for safety reasons. It is possible to go higher obviously but there's generally no need.

[BrewinBrian44]

Depends on what you’re trying to make. But yes, you don’t want to be above 40% for your own safety. Beyond that there’s also diminishing returns.

If you’re making whiskey, stripping most of the alcohol will give you a much more flavorful product for your spirit run by not needing to dilute the low wines and getting some of that grain flavor buried deep in the tails.

For a more neutral sprit, extra dilution blow 40% helps keep tails in the boiler.

[elbono]

I've also seen this multiple places and followed it. The reason is usually "safety" but what is the hazard?

I've actually been considering lower proof charges for other reasons but enquiring minds want to know.

[Kareltje]

The supposed hazard is the flammability and explosibility of the ethanol. But there is no logic in that: on top of a large refluxcolumn there will be a vapour of about 90 %ABV and on the surface of a 10 %ABV wash in the boiler there will be a vapour of more than 50 % at 93 dgr C.
There is a flammable liquid or vapour present and maybe enough oxygen that is left from the start or from air sucked in during cooling, but there is no flame present.

But there are more down-to-earth reasons, though.
First of all the gain of distilling high proof alcohol is very limited. A 10 % wash gives a 54 % distillate, a 40 % wash gives a 77 % distillate, a 50 % only 80, a 60 not more than 82 and a 70 only 84.
Second there is the risk of running your boiler (almost) dry. When you run 30 liters of 10 % wash to the end, you get about 10 liters of 30 % wash and so you have 20 liters left in the boiler. When you run 9 l of a 40 % wash till the very end you might get about 6 liters of a 60 % distillate, leaving only 3 liters in the boiler. And this ratio gets worse with higher %ABV in the boiler. Which is especially a problem when you have internal electrical elements.

[Salt Must Flow]

It is my understanding that you should never charge the still with any mash, wash,or low wines, more than 40% ABV or 80 proof. Am I correct in my understanding? I've seen various commentary talking about 40%, 30%, but it isn't clear if that is 40 proof which is 20% ABV or 30 proof which is only 15% ABV.
I just want to make clear in my understanding that the total alcohol by volume should be no more than 40% ABV going into your still at any one time

If you intend to make neutral then you don't necesarilly want it to be 40% ABV (80 proof). You would benefit greatly by diluting it well below 40%.

[Yummyrum]

The supposed hazard is the flammability and explosibility of the ethanol. But there is no logic in that: on top of a large refluxcolumn there will be a vapour of about 90 %ABV and on the surface of a 10 %ABV wash in the boiler there will be a vapour of more than 50 % at 93 dgr C.
There is a flammable liquid or vapour present and maybe enough oxygen that is left from the start or from air sucked in during cooling, but there is no flame present.

But there are more down-to-earth reasons, though.
First of all the gain of distilling high proof alcohol is very limited. A 10 % wash gives a 54 % distillate, a 40 % wash gives a 77 % distillate, a 50 % only 80, a 60 not more than 82 and a 70 only 84.
Second there is the risk of running your boiler (almost) dry. When you run 30 liters of 10 % wash to the end, you get about 10 liters of 30 % wash and so you have 20 liters left in the boiler. When you run 9 l of a 40 % wash till the very end you might get about 6 liters of a 60 % distillate, leaving only 3 liters in the boiler. And this ratio gets worse with higher %ABV in the boiler. Which is especially a problem when you have internal electrical elements.

Spot on Kareltje…on all accounts.

[Corn Cracker]

I have run 50% on a spirit run, i run on a glass topped stove so that takes one of the hazzards out. My thinking was I was only getting around 110-120 from my 5g alembic, strippng or spirit, i can run it a little more concentrated and get a little higher proof. i now get a little over 130 that way. I figure if i can't get to barrel strength to age i can't really be making bourbon.

[Deplorable]

120p in the hearts? Or the start of the run?

[Setsumi]

On most posts proof and % dont get mixed up. So if it says % I take it to mean %ABV. The guys quoting %ABW will state that clearly. Rest of the posters answered your %ABV charge.

[bilgriss]

While it's true in a perfect world without mistakes and no equipment failures that nigher percentage of alcohol in the boiler may not pose a risk - in practice, a google search will reveal people who do this professionally who have failed and blown stuff up. A really small leak and a spark are all it takes for something fairly serious to happen. The closer you get to the heat source, the more likely a flaw could cause harm.

40% is an agreed upon threshold which is loosely aligned with a point where liquid easily ignites from an open flame, and its a good target to keep in mind for a max. I never go that high in practice anyway.

[Corn Cracker]

120p in the hearts? Or the start of the run?

Hearts, my first 7oz/ heads usually come in at 130-135

[Deplorable]

120p in the hearts? Or the start of the run?

Hearts, my first 7oz/ heads usually come in at 130-135

Sounds like your right on the money then. barrel entry proof varies from 55% to 65% (110-130 proof) Bourbon is usually barreled lower than Scotch style whiskeys.
My final blend of jars usually falls just a little over 65% and I have to temper it down to barrel entry proof.

[Kareltje]

While it's true in a perfect world without mistakes and no equipment failures that nigher percentage of alcohol in the boiler may not pose a risk - in practice, a google search will reveal people who do this professionally who have failed and blown stuff up. A really small leak and a spark are all it takes for something fairly serious to happen. The closer you get to the heat source, the more likely a flaw could cause harm.

40% is an agreed upon threshold which is loosely aligned with a point where liquid easily ignites from an open flame, and its a good target to keep in mind for a max. I never go that high in practice anyway.

Yes, there are examples of stills blown up.
But then the cause is not the high ABV in the kettle, but flaws in the construction or operation of the still.

That being said: it of course is wise to be careful.

[Lights Out]

Interested in reading that its better to dilute down below 40% when going for a neutral. What do people generally run at then? Iv just automatically gone with 40%...

[CopperFiend]

Yeah, I suppose it makes sense that if you start with a lower ABV, you're possibly going to get a slightly more pronounced gradient of high ABV at the top to low ABV at the base of your column and make it easier to dodge the tails. I run at whatever my low wines end up at! Tends to be around 30%.

[still_stirrin]

Interested in reading that its better to dilute down below 40% when going for a neutral. What do people generally run at then? Iv just automatically gone with 40%...

Lights Out, here’s a “thought”:

When your low wines are diluted to 40%ABV, there is 60% of the volume that isn’t alcohol, meaning it is mostly water and “other stuff”. But, with higher %ABV low wines, the product when distilled again will have a higher %ABV off the spout (higher purity) as well. The distillation process is similar to an “amplifier” increasing the %ABV when run through the still, ie - higher input will generate a higher output.

But, what’s in the boiler besides the alcohol will also come through (in part) at the spout. Therefore, when you dilute your low wines below 40%ABV (with water), you’re essentially “thinning” the proportion of other constituents in the low wines, thereby reducing the other flavors that may carry over during the spirit run. But, the %ABV at the spout likely will be lower than if your low wines were 40%ABV.

Bottom line, when your target spirit is a neutral, you’ll want to dilute with water and rerun the spirit. If you dilute to only 40%ABV, then you’ll get a high %ABV off the spout. But that may not necessarily be a “neutral”, even if it has a very high proof. Diluting below 40%ABV with water will help clean up the congeners when rerun. But it may give you less than 190 proof at the spout.

The best approach to a clean neutral would be multiple distillations, possibly even triple distilled, to get a truly high purity product.
ss

[Lights Out]

Interested in reading that its better to dilute down below 40% when going for a neutral. What do people generally run at then? Iv just automatically gone with 40%...

Lights Out, here’s a “thought”:

When your low wines are diluted to 40%ABV, there is 60% of the volume that isn’t alcohol, meaning it is mostly water and “other stuff”. But, with higher %ABV low wines, the product when distilled again will have a higher %ABV off the spout (higher purity) as well. The distillation process is similar to an “amplifier” increasing the %ABV when run through the still, ie - higher input will generate a higher output.

But, what’s in the boiler besides the alcohol will also come through (in part) at the spout. Therefore, when you dilute your low wines below 40%ABV (with water), you’re essentially “thinning” the proportion of other constituents in the low wines, thereby reducing the other flavors that may carry over during the spirit run. But, the %ABV at the spout likely will be lower than if your low wines were 40%ABV.

Bottom line, when your target spirit is a neutral, you’ll want to dilute with water and rerun the spirit. If you dilute to only 40%ABV, then you’ll get a high %ABV off the spout. But that may not necessarily be a “neutral”, even if it has a very high proof. Diluting below 40%ABV with water will help clean up the congeners when rerun. But it may give you less than 190 proof at the spout.

The best approach to a clean neutral would be multiple distillations, possibly even triple distilled, to get a truly high purity product.
ss

Thanks mate. Its not coincidence that the best neutral I have made included some feints getting their 3rd run, and also some leftover 95% neutral that I threw in just becasue it was there.

I might actually experiment with triple distilling a batch or two.

[Demy]

Triple distillation is definitely the best method because it combines 2 worlds (yield because you can go low in the first stripping) and purity. Another thing I've tried with neutral is to do a smooth stripping without speeding, this helps keep the queues at bay more.