Screw this! (propane)

[White_Lightning_Rod]

If a mod would be so gracious it would probably be helpful if the link to the digital crap one I posted earlier be removed so no one else gets half way through the thread and jumps the gun before finishing reading it all. I already removed the image.

[Jimbo]

Done. Bummer it didn't work. Id give them Chinese an ear full.

[T-Pee]

Be sure to leave feedback on the listing too.

tp

[S-Cackalacky]

Just a side note - I run the same controller that Jimbo uses - 10KW SCR with the analog pot. I run mine on 120VAC with a 240V 5500W element. The pot that comes with the controller is rated for use with 240V, so it will act a little wonky when run at 120V. At 120V the pot won't show any effect until it is turned about halfway on, but from about 50+ percent to full power it will adjust within the full 120V range. So, if you buy it to use with 120V service, just be aware of that little quirk.

Side note to the side note - With my rig - 5 gallon pot still running the heating element at 1375W, I've found that I don't really need a controller. I've been plugging the element directly into the 120V outlet and getting the desired output stream. My controller is sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I'll be rewireing it for 240V service for a future 15.5 gallon keg build.

[bellybuster]

once i get my controller with the digital control I'll mess with it and figure what can be done, I have a few ideas but need to see what is involved with the control.

[S-Cackalacky]

If a mod would be so gracious it would probably be helpful if the link to the digital crap one I posted earlier be removed so no one else gets half way through the thread and jumps the gun before finishing reading it all. I already removed the image.

Looks like someone beat me to it - the link is gone.

[Red Rim]

For what it's worth, I am glad I went that route. I spent so much time researching the little buggar, that I feel like I relearned quite a few things. Cheapest education $20 could ever inspire me to get. If you buy something and plug it in you don't learn a thing. With this scr, like every part of distilling, There has been a huge learning curve. I am at the part in life where you don't get to learn something new everyday. Today I have.

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

.

Definition of "Experience"

The sum total of all the mistakes you ever made, large and small, ......that didn't kill you.

[Jimbo]

The ones that kill you are a son of a bitch.

[sambedded]

Then about the time tails hit I startted messing around with that ground Red Rim was talking about and ended up with just a little pop, no smoke and the thing shut off competely. I ordered the one from Jimbos thread a few days ago and according to tracking it is coming through customs now. Any one who ordered the digital SCR on my recommendation I sincerly appologize. I do think someone with much more electronics knowledge than I have could replace the digital pot with a regualar one and it may work correctly, and I may eventually try that since I think it was the digital pot that crapped out on mine. Thanks for all the responses and help on this learning journey.

You, guys are trying to feed grass to a cur in assumption that some horse hidden inside. It's an MCU based controller and there is no "digital pot " inside.
That panel with indicator has a 8 bit microcontroller wich drives SCR directly. 5v and Gnd wires are for powering MCU, Scr wire control scr and zero is for zero crossing detection. When you connect that "Gnd" wire to real ground you just blew up an MCU power supply .
I dont have this unit but I bet it uses burst control method or something like Bresenham algorithm not an phase angle control. Thats why regular amp and volt meters show bogus data. You'd better connect 100Watt or so incandescent lump instead of heating elemnt end you will see how does it work.
.

[Ayay]

This is why I like gas. Awesome BTU's are available, and the control of the heat is a simple tap or valve. Here at the bottom, electricity is 'competitive'...meaning the electricity supplier extracts the absolute max it can from the consumer and then some.

The danger with gas is leakage both of product and gas, and the ignition factor of each. Leakage should be treated with the same respect as avoidance of shocks and sparks. All told, electricity is more convenient once it's set up with all the complications, but neither less dangerous nor cheaper.

[Jimbo]

It's an MCU based controller and there is no "digital pot " inside.
That panel with indicator has a 8 bit microcontroller wich drives SCR directly.
.

Regardless, an SCR is still an SCR. Could still bypass the poorly implemented Micro and control the gate of the SCR the old fashioned way no? SCR's still eat grass

[rad14701]

I'll continue to build my own KISS concept phase angle controllers... No bells and whistles, just a simple circuit that works...

[sambedded]

It's an MCU based controller and there is no "digital pot " inside.
That panel with indicator has a 8 bit microcontroller wich drives SCR directly.
.

Regardless, an SCR is still an SCR. Could still bypass the poorly implemented Micro and control the gate of the SCR the old fashioned way no? SCR's still eat grass

Yes you can throw out an engine from a car add a traces and harness a horse. Than you cna use your car as a cart.
To control a SCR old way you need to throw out absolutly anything except SCR an a add all new component. It would be much cheaper go by just an SCR .

And I'm pretty sure this digital controller works OK, you just can't use a regular voltmeter or ammeter. You need an oscilloscope . Or try to connect an incandescent lump bulb instead of heater or in parralel with it..

[BoisBlancBoy]

I'll continue to build my own KISS concept phase angle controllers... No bells and whistles, just a simple circuit that works...

Yep I agree...just ordered a SSR that Jimbo uses. Only thing I think I'll do to it is print up for the back side of the dial with some indicators on it. Just so I don't have to draw on my box. Besides my handwriting is terrible.

[Jimbo]

Works good, lasts long time.

horse.jpg (7.38 KiB) Viewed 1799 times

[Jimbo]

I am curious tho. Sambedded you say it probably works fine. They measured current into an element and it was wonky, all over the map. Up, down, back up, eratic, Why do you think its working fine?

[sambedded]

I am curious tho. Sambedded you say it probably works fine. They measured current into an element and it was wonky, all over the map. Up, down, back up, eratic, Why do you think its working fine?

I said it two times already - you can't use regular voltmeter or ammeter with burst controller.
Like you can't. take a speedometers from a car and use it as is for measuring a boat speed.

[Red Rim]

I am way over my head in a conversation with you electrical engineers, but for what it is worth.

When the amp meter reading increased, the sound of the element and boil increased, when the amp meter decreased the sound of the element and boil decreased. Even as the percent numbers went up. The meter told me something and the physical science concurred.

[Red Rim]

How about this. Buy it, test it, fix it. I will donate the purchase price to the forum just for the entertainment of solving this.

I knew when I connected the ground wire what was going to happen. Until I have checked out all possibilities then the problem hasn't really been solved.

[Jimbo]

I am way over my head in a conversation with you electrical engineers, but for what it is worth.

When the amp meter reading increased, the sound of the element and boil increased, when the amp meter decreased the sound of the element and boil decreased. Even as the percent numbers went up. The meter told me something and the physical science concurred.

Your pragmatic observation is what tells me this is wonky, wrong measurement technique or not. If a micro is pwm'ing the gate of the SCR there will still be an average current flowing into the element that should increase semi linearly. And its not.

Anyway, I dont give a shit about a geek feud here, but I am curious whats up. However superficially tested, the chinese still do some level of go/nogo before stuffing it in a box, sees it should work unless it was blown in assembly or hooked up wrong. Hook it up to a lightbulb like Sambedded said and see if the bulb gets continually brighter throughout the range.

[bellybuster]

once I get mine I'll pass on some info. I have access to an oscilloscope, I would assume it fires at the zero mark to back up Sambedded's assumptions. We shall see.

[Red Rim]

Cool! Looking forward to your tests.

[sambedded]

Cool! Looking forward to your tests.

Take a 220v LED indicator or any incandescent lamp bulb I
And connect in parallel with a heating element . You will see immediately how does the controller work.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

It's an MCU based controller and there is no "digital pot " inside.
That panel with indicator has a 8 bit microcontroller wich drives SCR directly.
.

Regardless, an SCR is still an SCR. Could still bypass the poorly implemented Micro and control the gate of the SCR the old fashioned way no? SCR's still eat grass

Yes you can throw out an engine from a car add a traces and harness a horse. Than you cna use your car as a cart.
To control a SCR old way you need to throw out absolutly anything except SCR an a add all new component. It would be much cheaper go by just an SCR .

And I'm pretty sure this digital controller works OK, you just can't use a regular voltmeter or ammeter. You need an oscilloscope . Or try to connect an incandescent lump bulb instead of heater or in parralel with it..

If it worked correctly then why when i used it to strip two diffrent runs did it not work? In its original configuration I could hear the element changing DRASTICLLY when I hit 23 on the controlls, it was not linear, period, forget amps or volts Im talking practial application it DID NOT work properly. I used the think without even having a meter to check anything and it wasnt right. Im no electrical engineer dont know crap about it but I do know in practical application it didnt work.

[sambedded]

To properly measure average of PWM signal your meter averaging time should be longer than PWM period.
Regular amp/volt- meters has averaging time up to few hundred milliseconds. Control period of this controller is about 1-2 seconds. Which is much longer than meter averaging time. Thats why regular meters don't work with this controller.

______________________________________
,Jumbo elephant can be as smart as 4 years old kid.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

To properly measure average of PWM signal your meter averaging time should be longer than PWM period.
Regular amp/volt- meters has averaging time up to few hundred milliseconds. Control period of this controller is about 1-2 seconds. Which is much longer than meter averaging time. Thats why regular meters don't work with this controller.

______________________________________
,Jumbo elephant can be as smart as 4 years old kid.

Like i said just practical application, Using takeoff from my pot still as the only meter to measure it did not work correctly, when you adjusted the readout the takeoff rate did not correspond, like I said I didnt even have a meter when I tried to use the thing the first time and it was wonky.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Im not trying to say you dont know what you are talking about because I am sure you do, and I do value the knowledge of the electic guys here if not for you guys i would be stuck all summer sweating my nuts off in a 90degree room just to run my still. Im just saying this particualar unit did not work corrctly, that is all.

[sambedded]

Like i said just practical application, Using takeoff from my pot still as the only meter to measure it did not work correctly, when you adjusted the readout the takeoff rate did not correspond, like I said I didnt even have a meter when I tried to use the thing the first time and it was wonky.

Could you please publish your data about take out rate dependency from percentage setting?

And could anyone point me to aseller ofthis controller. I'd like to order and test it.



______________________________________
,Jumbo elephant can be as smart as 4 years old kid.[

[White_Lightning_Rod]

I didnt video tape the run or write down the collection rates the only documentation I have is what I saw with my own eyes.

Have at it. BTW I got a refund from the seller and still have the piece, just by emailing him, so that tells me he wasnt real confident that the part worked correctly in the first place.