Heating Element Control

[varocketry]

Sambedded:

Ok, thanks for your concern and advice. Does this capture what you mean? Will this work?

Many thanks

[rad14701]

Sambedded:

Ok, thanks for your concern and advice. Does this capture what you mean? Will this work?

ElementControllerv4.jpg

Many thanks

Nope... Amperage is best measured on the output side so you know exactly how much amperage is going to the element... Same for voltage... At least that's how I measure voltage and amperage...

[Aussiedownunder01]

I get away just measuring voltage
[ie 240 volt on a 2000 watt element gives approx 100% knock it back to say 120 volt this will give aproxx 1000 watt 180 volt 1500 watt aprox ]
So you are in the ball park a few watts here and there is nothing
I see some people trying to make it to complicated

[sambedded]

Sambedded:

Ok, thanks for your concern and advice. Does this capture what you mean? Will this work?

ElementControllerv4.jpg

Many thanks

Yes. As about amperage metering - it's absolutely doesn't matter if you put input or output wire through that transformer ring. In both cases it will show you same data.

[Messina]

Long time no post.

I have read this entire section before and now that it is more relevant to me I'm reading it again (a little more concesly) to figure out how I want to controll my 1,500W element. I'm trying to decide between three different schematics and have one question referring to pintos diagram on pg 2 of his 120V controll unit.

This has been asked before but I dnt think it was answered compleatly. To what effect will replacing the 40amp 600V Triac with a 600V 25amp triac? I realize the larger the more durable. "Bigger=better". Guess my question is "is the extra bulk necisary for how the circuit works?

for my situation I know I'm only dealing 15amps and I have the 25amp triacs.

For give me for my premature question but I have things to accomplish and I dnt see this question floating up again.

Grazzi

...

[rad14701]

This has been asked before but I dnt think it was answered compleatly. To what effect will replacing the 40amp 600V Triac with a 600V 25amp triac? I realize the larger the more durable. "Bigger=better". Guess my question is "is the extra bulk necisary for how the circuit works?

for my situation I know I'm only dealing 15amps and I have the 25amp triacs.

Either Triac will do the job just fine as both are rated substantially higher than their duty cycle will demand...

[Barnstorm]

Hey guys, quick question. I built a controller just like Pamulli on page 45. I used http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Voltage-Res ... _sbs_hi_12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. At the pot terminals, Ive only got around 193k Ohms full resistance from my 500k pot. This is only whens its hooked up to the SSR. Ive also tried a 1M pot and it reads 250k full resistance at the terminals. I have 240v at the element regardless of where the potentiometer is set, and it doesn't regulate the element. Everything is wired correctly. Any thoughts?

And I will try to get an introduction soon, sorry!

[sambedded]

I have 240v at the element regardless of where the potentiometer is set, and it doesn't regulate the element. Everything is wired correctly. Any thoughts?
!

Either your wired it incorrectly or your SSR is broken.

How exactly did you wire it?

[Barnstorm]

I'm thinking it might be broken also. Ive got it wired like this, plus a 30A dpst switch before ssr. It is one of bellybusters diagrams from this thread http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=38847

[sambedded]

Wiring is OK. Looks like your SSR is not working.

[varocketry]

I just tried to fire up my build of a controller for a CAMCO 5000w utlra low density heater element for my 15 gal keg boiler.

I attempted to use this schematic as recommended by Minime:

Hit the power button, LIGHT went on the illuminated power switch but Ebay volt/ammeter didn't power up, and the heater element never heated up.

Potential failure elements:
1) 2P contactor not working or operating properly (Source: AUBER)
2) 10000w Ebay Chinese power controller (the contacts were severely distorted by the heavy gauge wire while connecting to other elements).
3) 10 Gauge Twist cable connectors aren't making connection
4) Possible failure in NEMA 14-30 plugs/connectors or my wiring (" remember red=Y, black =x")

I built it into a thin ammo box, perhaps that was too small an enclosure as 10 gauge wire is difficult to wrangle in that space.

-----------------

Attempt #2: I read thru 40 pages of this thread looking at the Phase Angle controller/SSR description and parts list provided by PAMULI back on page 45. When looking on EBAY for heat sink I noticed the following:

PID Digital Temperature Control Controller 0 to 400℃ + K Sensor+ 25A SSR
for $26.99 and free shipping from HongKong.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-Digital-Tem ... 3553733%26

So, a complete PID setup for 1/3 the cost of the Phase Angle controller parts, OK, I'll try that next.

[rad14701]

@varocketry

Why not take a step back and simplify things... I never cease to be amazed by how folks always want every bell and whistle installed before testing circuits... Think KISS and then complicate things one stage at a time from there... Trim it down to what you need to make things work... Power, element, PSR, and potentiometer... Fuck the rest until you know which of those work and which don't... Stop trying to buy your way to success... That's not what this hobby is about... If so, just go to the liquor store...

[varocketry]

OUCH! I guess I'm put in my place. That felt real helpful.

[RumRunnerGuy]

Varocketry,

Since I'm still new to this whole deal and have yet to build my controller I can't give you any advice as to where the problem may be, but considering that wiring diagram has been used by numerous people I'd assume it should work properly. That being the case if it were me before buying anything I would just use a volt meter and check everything.

For me I'd check as follows: (based on looking at the diagram)
1. Check that you're getting 220v at the circuit breakers
2. Check that you're getting 220v wherever you're plugged in
3. Check that there is 110v to your switch, and that it turns on and off
4. Check that there is power across your emergency switch
5. Now check power at your Contactor. The one side should be Hot always, and the output side should be hot when you turn on your switch
6. If everything is good to this point you should have full power to the controller, check the output power when rotating the knob.
7. If you have power out check that there's power to the element itself.


Best of luck

[varocketry]

RRG:

Agreed. I plan to mount everything to a 1x6 board to assemble and test this next time.

I am not at all comfortable reaching inside the small ammo box enclosure when there's live 220vac flowing.
Call me chicken!

Thanks.

[RumRunnerGuy]

RRG:

Agreed. I plan to mount everything to a 1x6 board to assemble and test this next time.

I am not at all comfortable reaching inside the small ammo box enclosure when there's live 220vac flowing.
Call me chicken!

Thanks.

Simple enough, turn the power off connect alligator clips to your multi-meter and turn the power back on.

Go through this process to check where the problem is.

[bellybuster]

Personally, I'd dump the contactor and the switch and go from there. With the pot on low you are switching less currant than turning on a light bulb. No contactor in a light switch.

[mrrb]

OUCH! I guess I'm put in my place. That felt real helpful.

All the members that try to help people like it when things are kept basic. Much easier to trouble shoot, and it's less likely that the person asking for help will just give up in frustration. Working with 220v can be dangerous. Just saying...

I just ordered the pid, sensor, and ssr that you mentioned. It is going to be a temperature controller for a home made meat smoker. It will not work very good in controlling a heating element in a keg, as you can not do that by temperature. You would only be able to use it in manual mode. It would show you the temperature of the keg, which doesn't really help you very much.
Here is a link for what I use, with a 500 ohm resistor and 600k ohm pot to control it. Total cost $25. Very easy to build and operate.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State-Rel ... 484f4e0ee5

[F6Hawk]

Sambedded:

Ok, this is different and there's some confusion, apparently, as there's NO SSR in my schematic. That's a CONTACTOR shown in the diagram.

ElementControllerv3.jpg

So, given that, perhaps there is no issue with the way it's used in my diagram? Correct?

You say there is no SSR... then what is the doohickey with the knob on it, pray tell? And FWIW, the contactor is just added, unnecessary expense.

[varocketry]

Thanks guys, I've ordered the SSR and heatsink as my fallback simple solution.

[varocketry]

I see PAMULLI's use of a United Automation PSR-25 POWER CONTROL MODULE controlled by potentiometer.

I see other designs using a 40A Solid State Relay (SSR) controlled by potentiometer.

1. What is the difference in these two devices in this use (PSR-25 vs SSR).
One costs $44 and the other $8.


2. 5500w/240v = 22.92 Amps. The PSR-25 is rated at 25 Amps. Any issue here?

Thanks.

[sambedded]

1. What is the difference in these two devices in this use (PSR-25 vs SSR).
One costs $44 and the other $8.

Both have absolutely same functionality. And theoretically there is no major differences (just different brands). But in reality when buying SSR from China you have a big risk to get counterfeit product.

2. 5500w/240v = 22.92 Amps. The PSR-25 is rated at 25 Amps. Any issue here?

Should not be if it has real 25A rating. But if we are talking about Chinese SSR very often they overrate their products. So buying SSR-40 you can expect that it hopefully will work reliably at 25A.

[varocketry]

[RumRunnerGuy]

Looks good....

[cal805]

Having a problem with wiring my SSR it's wired up correct but turning the knob / pot, I get no change in voltage nor amps. Anybody else get a brand new ssr that was broken out of the box?

[sambedded]

Having a problem with wiring my SSR it's wired up correct but turning the knob / pot, I get no change in voltage nor amps. Anybody else get a brand new ssr that was broken out of the box?

Brand? Model number?

[F6Hawk]

I could be wrong, but I believe the right leg of your potentiometer needs to be connected to the middle leg.

[MiniMe-UK]

I noticed this on an auction site: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/240VAC-25Amp- ... 20d57b0b30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It states:

The rated constant load is 18A but can peak at 25A max. At 240vac this corresponds to 4000va

So at 18A constant load at 240vac this would equate to 4320W... I can't seem to find an immersion element greater than 3000W here in the UK. Do you think this would suffice for my 25L Boiler as it would only draw 12.5A at 3000W?

Obviously it would benefit from a good heatsink.

[cal805]

It's a Amico AC 30A Rectangular

[MiniMe-UK]

I could be wrong, but I believe the right leg of your potentiometer needs to be connected to the middle leg.

This ^^^

Connecting the right pin to the middle pin simply builds in a level of failsafe so that if the wiper fails resistance is still there across the left and the right pin and the output would not be at 100%. Not sure if 500k is OK as I've seen mentioned 250k elsewhere.