NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

[Maestro]

NC is right. I meant conversion of the corn. That is good to know about the C60. I will likely try that next run. Thanks.

[Barney Fife]

For the sake of clarity, though, we should only use the term "converted" or "conversion" to what it really means, which is a mash that has been converted from starches to fermentable sugars. Please.

[NcHooch]

For the sake of clarity, though, we should only use the term "converted" or "conversion" to what it really means, which is a mash that has been converted from starches to fermentable sugars. Please.

Agreed

[MR-E]

* Only whiskey produced in the United States can be called bourbon

I don't like that rule , I like Bourbon & was looking forward to making Bourbon, now what am I going to call it
It's enough to drive a man to drink

Thanks for the recipe I'm still gonna give a go

[NcHooch]

* Only whiskey produced in the United States can be called bourbon

I don't like that rule , I like Bourbon & was looking forward to making Bourbon, now what am I going to call it
It's enough to drive a man to drink

Thanks for the recipe I'm still gonna give a go

lol you could always break the rules .
...that's what I do when I pull it out of the barrel before 2 years

No matter what you call it, let us know how you like it.

[rad14701]

* Only whiskey produced in the United States can be called bourbon

I don't like that rule , I like Bourbon & was looking forward to making Bourbon, now what am I going to call it
It's enough to drive a man to drink

Thanks for the recipe I'm still gonna give a go

Bourbon-esque

You can even drink it in stiff-pinky nouveau riche fashion...

[DFitz]

Well, I have 50# cracked corn, 50#malted 6-row and 15#of rye flake. Looks like I'll be giving this a try or two, or maybe three...

I Also ordered some test strips, alpha-glucoamylase, a few other odds & ends to adjust PH on water/ferments if needed. Any tips for a noob prior to starting this (besides reading and paying attention to measurements). I've been doing plenty of that since my BW fiasco. I have some sweet feed going at the moment but I hope to get going on this next week some time.

[NcHooch]

Lemme know if ya have any questions before you get started

[bentstick]

Dfitz, it works well but follow directions, and it should not fail you!

[DFitz]

Considering handling, whats the largest mash you would recommend? I have a 100qt boiler and a 120qt cooler. I'd like to put a 15-20 gallon charge in the boiler to distill. Too big ya think? My aim is to run two charges and yield 10gal. total spirits. I can get all the 7gal pails that I need but I'd prefer fermenting in a 32 gallon receptacle. I have sweet feed fermenting in one 32 gal can that won't be done until next week. I want to pre-soak the corn with the backset after I run that batch.

[NcHooch]

Unless you have prev experience mashing all grain recipes, I'd recommend you start out with a 5-10 gallon batch .

As far as handing quantity ...I cant imagine stirring 25 gallons of corn mash ...or trying to pour that quantity into a cooler .

[bentstick]

+1 Hooch, I mash in 2 batches of 5 gals that is enough,mix together in cooler,and as NCHooch said pouring in a cooler have fun,it wants to go all at once,is heavy, splashes and it is hot,sticks to what ever is around and leaves little burn spots,( ask the wife she tell ya), but ya have to do AG once! Right?

[DFitz]

I use a variable speed 1/2" drill w/a mud mixer for stirring and it works pretty well. I ordered a 1-1/2" stainless ball valve, nipple and cap which should be in by Thursday at the latest. I'll have one of the shops I work with cut in and tig the nipple. I really didn't like hefting buckets of boiling water for the sweet feed. One of those handles pulling out on a plastic bucket could really screw up your day. As far as filling the cooler, I'll just have to put up with it being in the way during the mashing.

[bentstick]

Go man go! It is all a journey!

[DFitz]

No sloppy mashin for me man.. I went with a 2" rather than 1-1/2". Its big but I think it fits my boiler just fine..

[NcHooch]

No sloppy mashin for me man.. I went with a 2" rather than 1-1/2". Its big but I think it fits my boiler just fine..

[img]snip[/img]

this thread is about a bourbon recipe, lets keep on topic please

[DFitz]

I cant imagine stirring 25 gallons of corn mash ...or trying to pour that quantity into a cooler .

Yeah, ok, sorry bout that chief. I'll follow your recipe scaled to my need as you implied in the 1st post. Thanks for the help in considering how to handle the "scale" I'm using. Really, your more help than you let on...

[DFitz]

OK, I got all my gear together to run this bourbon now. Scale to weigh the grain, BOP modified for safety in handling, mixing equipment, digital Thermometer, air stone & pump, backset set aside for soaking corn, sanitizing liquids, sanitized cooler large enough for my run at the ready + a spare to handle the unexpected (just in case), iodine and hydrometer for testing and plenty of propane to satisfy the need.

My grain bill and notes so far are as follows:
Corn..............65% 26 lbs 18 gal. cooking water
Malted Barely....25% 10 lbs
Rye...............10% 4 lbs
Total %..........100% 40 lbs
Total Water 6.7 Gal Per 10 lbs add 10 gal. water at ferment

Notes:
Weigh out corn and soaked in BOP with hot sweetfeed backset for 24-30 hours.

Drain corn/rinse and add to 18 gallons of filtered water to boil. Cook by step method. Heat to 130 deg.F then rest for 30 min., heat to 165 deg.F. then rest 30 min. add malted barley as needed for thinning, heat to 200 deg.F.then rest 30 min. and let cool. @ 150 deg. F. weigh & mix in 10lbs barley and 4 lb flaked Rye into BOP, mix well and let into mash tun. Let mash rest closed tight but mixing @ 15 minute intervals for three hours. Check @ 3 hours for conversion with iodine. Continue rest overnight and check final conversion again the next day. Take SG reading with mash below 90 deg. F. and adjust reading for temp. Transfer to fermentor and add water to adjust for an SG of 1.060 or better. Pitch yeats and Ferment for 6-7 days.

Target OG 1.060
FG. .980
Target abv 8.4%... Is this asking too much?

Am I missing anything??
I think I'm prepared, Lets hope it goes this smooth.

[bentstick]

Dfitz, might as well add the flaked rye while cookin unless it is malted.

[NcHooch]

you got your work cut out for ya DF, but that's a solid plan, and I think you'll do well if you stick to it .
X2 on adding the rye with the corn (unless it's malted rye).
...I don't drain the backset either ...use it as part of your cooking liquid.

[DFitz]

...I don't drain the backset either ...use it as part of your cooking liquid.

Thanks!
Thats good to know. I wanted to use the backset but wasn't sure. So much goodness in there now and I hate to loose it. I think things will go well. Its a large batch for my first all grain but my still is a bit large for a 5 gal wash. I figure I'd plan ahead and follow the plan. should all come out well I'll run another batch after this one & order a couple 5 gal. barrels. One to age this bourbon in, and one for something else I've been running. I feel pretty comfortable with it all so we'll see what we see.

[NcHooch]

I don't think you'll get 8.4% ...in fact, your grain bill with 20 gallons batch size shows 5.3% so I'd be careful about adding too much more liquid.

careful you don't burn yer corn too!

[DFitz]

At the end of the mash, cool to 80f and transfer to fermenter (grain and all).
Top up to 6-7 gallons total volume.

I multiplied your recipe Xs 4 with exception of adding Rye, and calculated wash volume of 24-27 gallons. Does something change when making a larger volume? I did notice on my 1st sweetfeed wash a low SG and compensated adding sugar to a .70.

Do you recall what your wash abv was on your 6-7 gallon wash? Just trying to figure out where the change would come from. I have some guco-Amalayse to add for extra conversion during mashing.

Thanks for your help so far, just can't see where the 5% comes in.

Edit:
Ahhhhh, soooooo.... I missed a pound of grain here & there...

so I adjust the corn to 28lbs. from 26, and the barley to 12lbs. from 10. I can also bump up the rye % as well.

or, for the sake of using round numbers, adjust my grain bill to:

Corn..............65% 32.5 lbs
Malted Barley....25% 12.5 lbs
Rye...............10% 5 lbs
Total %.........100% 50 lbs

Thats a stout mix. I'm glad I'm using a 100 qt pot now... and also glad I have that extra cooler.. Yikes!

I think I'll re-figure my grain to the amount of water I'm soaking in now.

[pope]

You can predict your FG using typical malt (and cereal) yields from this table: http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I would use the flaked maize value towards the bottom for your corn, assuming successful (complete) gelatinization. Multiply Max PPG by percent of grain in mash by total weight of the grain bill. Add up the resulting figures for each grain in the bill, and divide that by the total volume of water that goes into the fermenter. Cut that figure down to about 70-75%, and if you do well you'll be elated, if you fall below your projection it won't be by much so you won't be too disappointed. Take that OG figure and plug it into an ABV calculator like this one: http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

If you use AG (gluco-amylase) in the fermenter you should be able to hit around 1.000 FG, so you can use that figure.

I've been using Briess flaked corn in a 4-grain 'bourbon' recipe at 3lb/gal, and my yields are in the 9-12% ABV range (70-85% efficiency). I suspect there is more of a learning curve involved with hitting those numbers if you're using cracked corn instead of flaked corn. The biggest thing I miss with cracked corn is step-mashing, as I do a long Beta-Glucan rest at around 105F before stepping up to saccrification temperatures.

Also, while it's certainly more work to do several smaller 10- or 15-lb batches than one 50-lb batch, you create a cycle of sour mashing and backset that is extremely useful if that's the way you like to cook it.

[DFitz]

Thanks,
I did make the 50lb version and it was a workout. I'm waiting for it to cool now to add the barley. I'll look into your links provided. Thanks for the info.

What is the consistency of the mash supposed to be like at 155F? I've had to add a bit of water to keep it from "setting up" on me. Just don't want to add too much until I see what happens when I add the barley. At the moment it's 170ish and has an oatmeal consitency.

[bentstick]

Sounds good so far, your fore arms a getting a work out, yes?
When I do my mashes 4.5 gals at a time and it gets to thick I sacrifice a .5/1 lb of malted barley to thin some.
Enjoy it, it does get easier!

[pope]

A good way to give your arms a rest is steam injection mashing. There are more detailed threads on this topic if you search around, but you can build a tri-clamped attachment for a sankey keg and boil water in the keg, directing it into a steam 'wand' (a coil of perforated copper in my case) which injects the steam into the corn. It keeps it hot without any stirring. I bring water to a boil and add corn, then open the steam valve and let it bubble away for a while. Lately I've been wrapping my pot with a blanket of insulation, too. Just be careful if you put a valve on your steamer. Kegs are rated for pressure at cold temperatures, and most copper fittings are rated for a maximum 15 psi when transporting steam. If you build up too much pressure in your keg, it could explode, and you don't want to be around when 250+F superheated water goes all over the place. I use part no. 68 & 69 from here:

http://www.pressurecooker-outlet.com/aapart.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The weighted gauge gets loud when you're over the rating - it will tell you to let off some steam.

[DFitz]

Yeah my arms got a work out. I did thin with barley otherwise I'd been at the ACE buying a new drill motor. I couln't have imagined stirring with a paddle.

Now she's a restin in the cooler and im a restin on the sofa. It was a relatively simple process (provided all goes well) but a 50lb batch is a work out. Even with a 1/2" drill motor and plaster paddle. we'll see what we see.

[pope]

I've been ogling a 25- or 26-gallon pot for a while for large mashes. But for bourbon mashes I like the series of smaller mashes to practice sour mashing. A series of 50-lb batches might actually be too much bourbon for me. I certainly wouldn't have to go to the store again.

[DFitz]

I've been ogling a 25- or 26-gallon pot for a while for large mashes. But for bourbon mashes I like the series of smaller mashes to practice sour mashing. A series of 50-lb batches might actually be too much bourbon for me. I certainly wouldn't have to go to the store again.

Its a nice pot. They can be found at alot of the major swap meets for great prices. Nice three layer bottom for even heat so on & so forth. I found one online for a buck & a half then searched for the best deal locally. Most sources couldn't even match the size. The addition of a valve helps immensely. Life will never be the same...

Uh oh,, getting off topic again.

My mash appears to have cooled but not enough yet to add gluco-amalayse or yeast. Its still pretty warm at 133*F. Nice cooler... I'll give it a few more hours and transfer it to the fermenter, add some backset from another sweetfeed stripping run I did last night top it off with filtered water. I'm figuring the fermenter will max out at 10 gallons of water added.

I squeezed off some juices and my SG reading hit 1.070. those were some pretty thick juices though, I cut the sample to 70%, more to what the fermenter will hold with this mash & water added and still maintained 1.50. Not bad so far. Still finding the iodine test positive for starches though. Mash tastes like my kids oatmeal w/extra sugar. Very sweet. I considered it for breakfast this morning but I have to watch my blood sugar..

So far so good....