email from Brewhaus

[thecroweater]

Firstly thing that needs changing is the media's approach and through them public perception. No one bothers to report the thousands upon thousands of backyard mechanics those cars catch fire or blown up half their shed every yr but some clueless shiner that has a mishap is front page for a week. Its deliberate and its pretty much world wide . not much will change wile this ancient craft is portrayed as risky and dangerous. We Ozzies think of our selves as liberal and free and does most of the English speaking world, but the NZers got us on toast in this field. Naturally my view is your have an undeniable natural right to procurer your own food and beverage and any law contrary to that is morally corrupt.

[seabass]

There doesn't seem to be any organized movement for legalizing home distilling. Or am I missing something?

[chrisc69]

Firstly thing that needs changing is the media's approach and through them public perception. No one bothers to report the thousands upon thousands of backyard mechanics those cars catch fire or blown up half their shed every yr but some clueless shiner that has a mishap is front page for a week. Its deliberate and its pretty much world wide . not much will change wile this ancient craft is portrayed as risky and dangerous. We Ozzies think of our selves as liberal and free and does most of the English speaking world, but the NZers got us on toast in this field. Naturally my view is your have an undeniable natural right to procurer your own food and beverage and any law contrary to that is morally corrupt.

so true their if we legalized it for personal use their is a opening for better education and hopefully would clean up the way people look at this hobbie i would pay for what i make if they made it which they dont and seaming as i can make it for a few bucks a bottle they would have to make it cheap lol

i think its time for a change but i doubt that will happen in my life time figures crossed though

[chrisc69]

on 1 note you can go legal on making your own hootch in OZ but you need to register your still pay tax on each liter of spirit that it produces its like $80 per liter something like that at 95% i cant remember all details but that is the basic outline of it

[thecroweater]

I would not pay one damn red cent for anything I make for myself, to hell with that and yeah In Oz it is for all intensive purposes impossible to get a licence for personal use, technically you can but in practice no one has ever been issued with one. Worries me not either way why should I have to buy a licence to do what morally is my right, imagine you had to get a licence and pay GST to grow your own vegies, no diff. Home brewers don't have to go though that crap nor do wine makers why the hell should you have to just because you choose to refine the toxins out from those said beverages, I'd prefer the statis quo to that

[chrisc69]

I would not pay one damn red cent for anything I make for myself, to hell with that and yeah In Oz it is for all intensive purposes impossible to get a licence for personal use, technically you can but in practice no one has ever been issued with one. Worries me not either way why should I have to buy a licence to do what morally is my right, imagine you had to get a licence and pay GST to grow your own vegies, no diff. Home brewers don't have to go though that crap nor do wine makers why the hell should you have to just because you choose to refine the toxins out from those said beverages, I'd prefer the statis quo to that

yeah that is why i don't have a licence i wont pay that much for a stupid licence you have said everything i feel the same way they can shove that idea up their back sides i wouldn't mind say a registration fee say $50 a year for book keeping etc like you need for reptiles but that price is bs

sorry for going off topic people

[Bayou-Ruler]

The list are due by approximately June 5th........................

http://www.brewhausforum.com/showthread ... #post26734" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[seaguy]

Okay

[mash rookie]

Content deleted

[drinkingdog]

+1 MR

[Paracelsus]

Content deleted

[Rastus]

i never did buy a still but i bought a milk can. and i spoke with the dealer and was told this:

uncle sam wants to know who has the items with serial numbers on it.
if you have a item with a serial number keep er clean if you do not have a permit.

my milk can got no serial number.

to make an analogy with parts of a gun. take an ar 15, you can buy a upper barrel and receiver through the mail, but the lower receiver frame is numbered and controlled and a licensed dealer or agent must call in the purchase of the item . one peice of metal, with a serial number. all the parts that screw on or bolt on are not regulated (yet) the part with the serial number is the one the feds want.

so it eases my mind a bit in that perspective, but i think sometimes we let down the guard a bit, and need to maintain a bit of paranoia to stay out of trouble.

that being said let me go answer the door and see who is knocking

[McShiner]

For the most part, many here will be doing this for personal consumption - OK, I am sure they get that. However 1) we (in general) have given away free likker to friends/family, and this reduces tax/production profits unfairly. 2) it is still illegal - to hide under "I only make for myself" would open the door to all sorts of illegal substance production.

AGREE!

In my mind the person down the road who is selling tomatoes, blueberries, pumpkins, used tires, firewood, or whatever else, at the roadside and not claiming the income is guiltier than I am for making my own wine and spirits that I consume in the privacy of my own home... Are they going to start coming after folks in states that tax groceries for growing their own vegetables, raising their own meat animals, or keeping chickens for fresh eggs...??? Hell No...!!!

AGREE!
Ironic that the roadside stands are mostly regenerated crops that keep coming back every season. We, on the other hand, have to purchase AND PAY TAXES on fresh grains, corn, yeast (if we don't regenerate our own), city water bills (have taxes on them), all the parts and pieces that we buy at the local "do it yourself" stores to build our rigs. And as stated in the first quote, we are only doing this for "personal consumption" for which we have already been taxed out the wa-zoo.

Just thought I'd throw another stone in the pond, just in case we started seeing our reflections on the surface again.

McS.
aka-LowKey

p.s.
It almost the same as my retired military pension. The US citizens' taxes paid my military paycheck which I paid taxes on. Now the taxes ALL of us paid, pay my military pension...WHICH IS TAXED! AHHHHHHH!

[rad14701]

Very valid point, McShiner... We've already paid tax on most ingredients... Sometimes we have to spell things out so the powers that be get it...

Water - taxed or untaxed
Nutrients - taxed or untaxed
Sugar - taxed or untaxed
Grains - taxed
Propane - taxed
Electricity - taxed
Hardware - taxed
Patience - taxed

So my spirits, produced for my own personal consumption, are already taxed enough... There is very little chance that any hobby distiller is going to make totally untaxed spirits...

Has anyone ever wondered where all the liquor tax goes...???

[jeepkidd]

If they had a rule in place for manufacturers to keep records for 3yrs, wouldn't it make sense for them to hit up the manufacturers every 3yrs and keep their own list forever? Data storage is cheap.

Most of us have invested more $ in our equipment then the liquor we will make in a long time. I really doubt we are the ones they are worried about. If they cross reference estimated liquor consumption with your area with liquor imported, or find some establishments which report much lower liquor sales then they would expect, then people with distilling equipment could be added to their investigation around where the liquor is coming from. It all goes back to the basic 'rules' Don't Sell & Don't Tell.

[LWTCS]

They are targeting "real" moonshiners IMO.

I betcha legit likker sales are at record highs in spite of all this new "moonshining".

[Jimbo]

Has anyone ever wondered where all the liquor tax goes...???

Someone has to fund retirement at full salary after a single term for the politicians.

[Clearwater]

They're trying to fend off Sequestration and have a reason to continue work...

[Paracelsus]

All these theories about the reasons are fine and dandy but what should any of us DO?

[jholmz]

All these theories about the reasons are fine and dandy but what should any of us DO?

nothing you can do if you bought your still they have your name. if your scared shut it down and quit the hobby otherwise its buisiness as usual

[Doogie]

All these theories about the reasons are fine and dandy but what should any of us DO?

put the thing somewhere else for a while.

Reasons are irrelevant. Rhetoric is irrelevant. What matters is they are investigating and using proven information to look for what is really illegal activity. Your beliefs will be irrelevant. I cannot believe a judge will deny a search warrant with a "we have evidence (exhibit A thru D) of a purchase and delivery of still capable of producing illegal alcohol and is outside of the maximum permitted still size"

[ATXknife]

I've been thinking of doing this as a hobby for some time. Today, I found this forum and began reading. I read the email from Brewhaus and went to their website. I just ordered a Pro Series 2 and am looking forward to its arrival. I appreciate people who stand up for their customers and now, I look forward to reading this forum.

[seabass]

Uhhhh...you do realize that while they are sticking up for their customers as much as possible by notifying everyone of the situation, they are still sending the list of customers to the feds right?

That purchase might not have been the best decision...

[ATXknife]

Do you see where they have any other choice? He's running a business. He has to comply. It is up to everyone else to stand up for their rights and put an end to this mischief. Just remember, he could have just kept quiet about it. But that's ok, I'm the newbie. Just saying....I've got his back.

[drinkingdog]

All these theories about the reasons are fine and dandy but what should any of us DO?

put the thing somewhere else for a while.

Reasons are irrelevant. Rhetoric is irrelevant. What matters is they are investigating and using proven information to look for what is really illegal activity. Your beliefs will be irrelevant. I cannot believe a judge will deny a search warrant with a "we have evidence (exhibit A thru D) of a purchase and delivery of still capable of producing illegal alcohol and is outside of the maximum permitted still size"

Besides the fact that person hasn't applied for any kind of a permit. Doesn't look good. Manufacturers step up and start the movement towards legalization. Work toward protecting your customers and your business

[Bayou-Ruler]

Well now that the TTB will have everyone who purchased a distillers Name and address, why not apply for a AFP permit? Then you wont have to worry. The big deal all along with most people as far as applying for a permit was disclosing your information. They are about to have your information anyway...............

[WIski]

+1 Bayou

If your going to stay in the game thats a great thought there......

[chrisc69]

Well now that the TTB will have everyone who purchased a distillers Name and address, why not apply for a AFP permit? Then you wont have to worry. The big deal all along with most people as far as applying for a permit was disclosing your information. They are about to have your information anyway...............

i wish we could get this but we cant so that suck ill continue i have built my stills anyway

[Doogie]

Do you see where they have any other choice? He's running a business. He has to comply. It is up to everyone else to stand up for their rights and put an end to this mischief. Just remember, he could have just kept quiet about it. But that's ok, I'm the newbie. Just saying....I've got his back.

I can understand your support for the builder - and yes, they did the best thing by the clients to inform everyone.

However, to correct your statement, we have no "right" to produce likker. It is not like gun ownership, gay marriage, etc, etc - there is no law or anything giving you the right to make likker just because you feel you should be allowed to.

Until people realize this, that they have no "right", they expose themselves and immediate family to prosecution and asset losses. Go ahead, stand up for your "rights" and see where it gets you.

Smart people are relocating these stills they bought online. They are also relocating aging products and keeping a small portion that at worst will get them a fine for possessing shine in small quantities. They may also be wailing on those fermenters to spit out mash/wash fast so they can build a hidden inventory to get thru this. Then, a year or so after they come and knock on yer door, these people will sneak their stills out and replenish their inventory.

Not so brilliant people will be standing in front of their running still with a shotgun and a huge inventory when the cops arrive, ready to defend their "right to produce likker"

[Doogie]

As for the online builders getting together to legalize this, I do not believe 1) it is fair to lump it on them and 2) that they can afford to. You would need to get both builders and users to get together and fund the drive.

Builders only get you, really, once - when you buy a still. The rest of the time you probably only buy, maybe, some yeast/ingredients, hydro/alcoholmeters, little things. Many people decide to build their own contraptions and as such the builder rarely sees anything from those people. Yes, a legalized distilling law would increase their sales, but to put the entire cost on them for a potential unknown future profit that may or may not appear would be a bad business decision

It has to be everyone contributing ...