Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing

[rad14701]

As for the amount of marbles, it takes what it takes... I have a lot more marbles than I need for my column... Maybe 3x as many... But we use them for household decorations, too...

I boiled all of my marbles that were purchased at The Dollar Tree and they are definitely just glass... They make that nasty sound and feel when rubbed together like most marbles do... Passed a lead test too... YMMV...

A 5/8" marble has a volume of .128 cubic inches... My 30" x 1.25" column has a volume of 36.82 cubic inches... There is a ~50% voidage between the marbles... Therefore, half the column volume divided by marble volume equates to 150 marbles... I can usually fit 150 - 155 marbles in my column when I account for added space provided by fittings... Therefore, real world usage pretty much correlates with my calculations...

[drmiller100]

That sounds a little under to me. my 48"x2" column took pretty much 8.5 lbs. The size of the marble will make a difference. Mine were 5/8" marbles from DollarTree

Great info, and thank you.

with your numbers, 48x2 is 150 cubic inches.

8.5 pounds is .0567 lbs/cubic inch.

the other guy's numbers were .049, so a 15 percent difference.

diameter of marble for sure will make a huge difference. I guess the point really is to help folks get in the ball park, and this really confirms we are.

Thank you again for the great information.

[joeymac]

Has anyone managed to flood/puke a marble filled column?
What was your power input and diameter? Insulated column?

[drmiller100]

Has anyone managed to flood/puke a marble filled column?
What was your power input and diameter? Insulated column?

Yup. 3 inch column. 4800 watts is about max. 6000 pukes.

2 inch column 2000 watts is MAX. 2000 watts and a bic lighter and it pukes.

both are uninsulated. I think it pukes at the very bottom of the column first. it seemed like to get the 2000 watts to work on teh 2 inch I had to make a "bowl" of very course mesh to hold the marbles, with lots of bottom surface area. Not very scientific, and i can't rationalize it, and I don't understand it, and i won't swear to it.

[joeymac]

I find that odd. I was running a 2" uninsulated on an 1800W induction plate and a secondary 1500w band heater, both on max, without puking my 2". Granted, while the induction heater does a great job of delivering power to the boil, the band heater seems pretty inefficient and also prevents me from insulating the boiler... so there's no telling how much power actually was getting put into the column. I'd guess maybe about 2400w are actually it producing ethanol vapor.

[BoisBlancBoy]

Just bought a bunch of 1/2" marbles from Hobby lobby. Boiled them all and dried them. They have a film which looks like it's from my hard water(well water). It's wipes right off but I'm not taking the time to wipe each marble! Haha. But I would imagine during the sac run that should clean them right up?

[drmiller100]

Just bought a bunch of 1/2" marbles from Hobby lobby. Boiled them all and dried them. They have a film which looks like it's from my hard water(well water). It's wipes right off but I'm not taking the time to wipe each marble! Haha. But I would imagine during the sac run that should clean them right up?

yup. Run it.

[shadylane]

The hobby lobby marbles looked almost perfect before cleaning. After, they have tiny bubbles and other imperfections.
I boiled them in soapy water, rinsed, soaked them in 90% ethanol and rinsed them again. I'll do a sac run also.
16 pounds of them filled my 4" column to around 28" and I dam near spelt all the marbles

[rad14701]

The hobby lobby marbles looked almost perfect before cleaning. After, they have tiny bubbles and other imperfections.
I boiled them in soapy water, rinsed, soaked them in 90% ethanol and rinsed them again. I'll do a sac run also.
16 pounds of them filled my 4" column to around 28" and I dam near spelt all the marbles

I soaked mine in foreshots, followed by a boil...

As for spilling the marbles, you'll only do that once... I know from personal experience, and mine only holds 150 marbles...

[BoisBlancBoy]

I already have my marbles sealed up into a couple ice cream pails. Hopefully I don't end up scattering them across my kitchen hardwood floor, they will never stop rolling!

[joeymac]

I steamed mine in a double boiler and then used the strainer to rinse them off with ht tap water.

[rad14701]

I just dumped some of mine on the carpeting yesterday... Still hoping I retrieved every single one because stepping on a marble barefoot hurts when you aren't expecting it...

[thecroweater]

Yep causes a bit of a reflux action I crack me up

[T-Pee]

I just dumped some of mine on the carpeting yesterday... Still hoping I retrieved every single one because stepping on a marble barefoot hurts when you aren't expecting it...

I banned jacks from the house back when for the same reason. *&^%$#@!*#!!

[still_stirrin]

The sack of marbles from Hobby Lobby has a tag on them that says
"Decorative use only - Not a toy. Not intended for Children or Food use. This item May Contain a Water Soluble Surface Coating"
What is the coating and is it toxic? The marbles feel waxy

There was no coating on the marbles I bought. But I did put them into a bucket and flood them with water before using. I soaked them for 15-20 minutes and then drained the bucket. Then, I rinsed them good with the hose. No other effort necessary.

One thing...after each use, I put them back into the bucket and hose them off real good...mostly to wash off any tails deposits than may be on them. I let them air dry and store in an old pillow case.

So far they've worked fantastic. I have had 1 or 2 crack and chunk, but they're cheap enough that they are easily replaced.
ss

[shadylane]

Just finished a run using marbles. It would appear scoria works slightly better than marbles.
I'll need to do some more runs and take better measurements before I can say for sure.
The marbles and scoria was close enough it could be from how I ran the column.
To me, the marble run was more neutral and tasted better.
On both runs the boiler was charged with the same wash, stripped and diluted to 20% abv

[drmiller100]

Just finished a run using marbles. It would appear scoria works slightly better than marbles.

To me, the marble run was more neutral and tasted better.
v

how was the scoria better?

[shadylane]

The column could run faster before the proof would drop.

[still_stirrin]

Thanks Shady. Good test and comparison.

I use marbles because of price, availability, and ease of use. But I don't doubt that scoria would allow a faster run and yet yield eqivalent yields. The scoria has a greater surface area to volume ratio, thereby making it (in theory, at least) more efficient.

The only concern I have with scoria is how to effectively clean the tails (oils) out of it at the end of the run. I'd think you'd about have to boil the lava rock in water to release all the sludge. Marbles, on the other hand, I just rinse off real good and allow to dry post run.

Good discussion here. Thanks all.
ss

[Hound Dog]

...It's actually not a whole lot heavier than the lava rock, which is surprising. I think with shipping, the marbles were about $120 or so....

I paid $3 USD for 2 lb. here: http://www.hobbylobby.com/Floral-%26-We ... les/p/3504" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The sack of marbles from Hobby Lobby has a tag on them that says
"Decorative use only - Not a toy. Not intended for Children or Food use. This item May Contain a Water Soluble Surface Coating"
What is the coating and is it toxic? The marbles feel waxy

Did you get the "clear" marbles or the "iridescent clear" ones? The latter have that rainbow oily look to them.

[greggn]

> The only concern I have with scoria is how to effectively clean the tails (oils) out of it at the end of the run.


As much as I liked lava rock as packing it was the periodic cleaning that was the deal breaker for me. Boiling to clean them, sometimes after each run (depending on what I was running) just became too labor intensive. I went back to raschig rings but I'm now anxious to give marbles a try to see if I can improve take-off speed.

[Hound Dog]

Yup, I just boiled up some marbles too. Got one more stripping run today then I will see how the marbles work in a week or two. Only bummer is I actually have three different sizes mixed together, 5/8, 1/2 and some a bit smaller. I was just going to dump them in there but then I read in this thread about them being self stacking and that made sense. I will probably separate the sizes and fill the column from large to small. It might keep them more structued. Never know, I might get fed up with separating all the damn things and just go for it too, we'll see

[drmiller100]

Just finished a run using marbles. It would appear scoria works slightly better than marbles.

To me, the marble run was more neutral and tasted better.
v

?

how was the scoria better?

I'm trying to understand. If marbles were more neutral, maybe you didn't have enough reflux with the scoria???

[shadylane]

I can taste the scoria.

[Hound Dog]

I separated the marbles and filled the column. Managed to fill it 1/3 of the way with 5/8" and the rest of the way with 1/2". Maybe I'll get to the run next weekend. For what it's worth, the larger marbles from Moon Marbles were not as good of quality as the 1/2" from Hobby Lobby. After two long vigorous boils, the Moon Marbles have more air bubbles in them and shattered more than the more solid Hobby Lobby marbles. That could vary from lot to lot also, just saying what I found....

[thecroweater]

I can taste the scoria.

Really! ,that has some implications, I have never come across that. Do you think is is dust from the scoria or something on them dissolving? ,what does it taste like?

[drmiller100]

I separated the marbles and filled the column. Managed to fill it 1/3 of the way with 5/8" and the rest of the way with 1/2". Maybe I'll get to the run next weekend. For what it's worth, the larger marbles from Moon Marbles were not as good of quality as the 1/2" from Hobby Lobby. After two long vigorous boils, the Moon Marbles have more air bubbles in them and shattered more than the more solid Hobby Lobby marbles. That could vary from lot to lot also, just saying what I found....

i was thinking about this. the smaller the marbles, the more levels, but the lower the btus the column will support.

[Hound Dog]

Ok, I ran a charge of low wines yesterday with marbles in the column. Perhaps it was because it was my first time using them, I was not impressed. Seemed a little fiddly to control. Well, I was shooting for a very clean neutral since the wife said my last run of feints was not as good as Russian Standard vodka . That spelled challenge. Alyway, I took the hearts from yesterday and threw in a gallon from that feints run to top it off, diluted it properly and did another run today (still running for that matter). I stand corrected on the 3 inch marble packed column. I just set the timer on my tablet and pulled three half gallon handles in 49 minutes 16 seconds. It is still steady running at 171.5 degrees. I have a steady layer of distillate bubbling in the sight glass at the top. Going strong.

[drmiller100]

Hound dog,

Is that quicker than you can usually pull? How many btus/watts is your boiler? How tall is your packing?

Thank you for reporting back!

[Hound Dog]

Yes that is faster but I am not sure exactly how much. 56 inch column pushing about 5300 watts. Around 18 amps on the bottom element and 4 on the upper with 240 volts.