First Run....Stinks!! Help please!!

[T-Pee]

2 tablespoons in 4 gallons of water? You really think that changed the pH much? Do you even have a way to test pH or are you still pissing in the wind??

I'm done here until you do what we ask of you.

tp

[moosemilk]

If you are talking "multivitamin" like one would take every morning, I'm going to throw a can of tomato paste at you. Now go and read. Thanks.

Just put ya in "notable and quotable" for this one because I was thinking of very similar while reading and coming up to your post.

[moosemilk]

Ray, to make this a bit easier, go read birdwatchers recipe and understand it all. If you want to know why about something in that recipe, search it up. The answers are here. Until then, save your OJ for a screwdriver. Please. Before Shinerunnah does throw that can of tomato paste at you.

[shadylane]

Just a suggestion.
Don't worry about lowering the pH of your sugar wash.
The malnourished yeast are lowering the pH on their own.

[bellybuster]

Methinks you guys are being punked.

[Hardcider]

No I agree, I am reading and learning. You all know better than I do...just messing around with a bad wash...that's all. Most great findings have been made due to an error. Just playing around with the wash. Thanks guys.

[still_stirrin]

Hey Ray,

Another tip for the Birdwatcher's (which is an excellant starter wash) is to make sure your ferment is warm enough. Bread yeasts like it a little warmer, like around 80F +/- . I put my glass carboys in plastic tub and fill it up with water and drop a fish aquarium heater in it set at 80F. The yeasts will start quickly and drive to dry.

Also, follow the recipe closely and you'll learn how the ferment process works.

Good luck in this new-found hobby.
ss

[T-Pee]

Most great findings have been made due to an error.

Like the Darwin Award?

tp

[bellybuster]

Most great findings have been made due to an error.

Like the Darwin Award?

tp

Worthy of a repeat

[ShineRunnah]

Ray, you get your wash figured out yet?

I certainly hope you've read up on some tried and true recipes, and hopefully stopped giving your wash multi-vitamins and OJ.

A little tip about the members here, many of them take this hobby very seriously and have an understanding and knowledge base that is beyond comprehension. There is a time for joking and a time to get serious. Most like to see a level of seriousness when you begin to get into stuff that can hurt or kill people if done improperly, ie: they want to see you've got your shit together before you begin producing product.

Around here, it's safety first and all else comes after that. Nobody wants to hear you've been poisoned or poisoned someone else, burned yourself up, etc, etc. It's taken seriously, and for good reason. This hobby can hurt or kill people. It has many times over in the past.

As a final note, have you found the relationship between tomato paste and this thread yet?

[sltm1]

Ray, I can't believe how long a leash these guy's are giving you!! By now usually you'd be sliced and diced. So I'm gonna shorten it......nicely. Stop asking half baked questions and guessing about what to do, go read till you're exhausted and then read some more. IF by then you haven't found the answers to your questions ask for help. We're not here to have a "campfire conversation" or convince you to save you own life, most hobby's won't kill you, burn down your house or get you arrested...this one will, so serious up and take the advice you've been repeatedly given about reading, not scanning , reading.

[Hardcider]

I understand guys, I really really do!!! Ok...a little about my self. As I said I am a chemist with a chemistry degree. I have fermented alcohol in school several times. I can not stress enough how much I am taking this seriously. I looked at the ingredients in yeast Nutrients and it is the same as a FDA grade multivitamin except for the grape tannin and ammonium. So dont take me for joking about this. I have been wanting to do this since 1996. Just never got around to doing it...for several reasons. I AM SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also have a friend that can put the solution through a chromatography machine to see what is in it and how pure it is. So I can not stress enough how serious I am. But just to say...all these ingredients on this site and on the web about yeast nutrients....Not being sarcastic or challenging anyones knowledge...has anyone ever thought about a vitamin in their wash!!! Face it...what can it really hurt to try? And better yet, I am not stupid enough to drink or to serve anything with out proper testing.

[thatguy1313]

There is nothing overtly wrong with adding a multivitamin to a wash. Lots of people use them in a "yeast bomb" (see pugirum). But there are easier and cheaper ways to provide nutrients for your wash. Your comments throw up several red flags which is why members keep advising you to read and why I asked about your still in my first comment. It'd be really neat to compare the chemical properties of young whiskey to oaked and aged whiskey. Also to compare the first stuff you make with what you'll make in a few years. Keep researching in the new distillers lounge and the tried and true sections here. You'll get there. Enjoy the journey and stay safe!

[Hardcider]

There is nothing overtly wrong with adding a multivitamin to a wash. Lots of people use them in a "yeast bomb" (see pugirum). But there are easier and cheaper ways to provide nutrients for your wash. Your comments throw up several red flags which is why members keep advising you to read and why I asked about your still in my first comment. It'd be really neat to compare the chemical properties of young whiskey to oaked and aged whiskey. Also to compare the first stuff you make with what you'll make in a few years. Keep researching in the new distillers lounge and the tried and true sections here. You'll get there. Enjoy the journey and stay safe!

And that is all I am doing. I'm sure I am going to make several washes before I tried to drink anything. And the multivitamin test....that is all I had. I looked at the nutrition value in tomato paste verses my on hand multivitamin...same stuff. Not the same exact amount but same nutrients. So I figured...why not.

[ShineRunnah]

Yes, I've used yeast nutrients in the past. Now I try to keep my wash/mash based on grains and more natural sources of yeast food. I view it in a similar light as to using miracle grow vs organic gardening. I feel it makes a difference, though I may well be wrong. I am not infallible, nor do I have all the answers in regards to yeast, fermentation and other applicable aspects. However, I've been distilling for a bit now and my product has certainly improved, so I'm either really lucky or I've managed to learn something over the past six years. I certainly hope the latter is reality.

As for scientific analysis, while it would be fun and informative to learn exactly what is in your spirits, I don't think it's 100% necessary or something you should get overly hung up on. By simply following guidance here and from other sources, I've managed to avoid harming anyone with tainted alcohol, and I imagine most others here have gotten by with similar guidance.

Being humble and following sound advice while you are learning the basics goes a long way to building your reputation here. The more advanced and knowledgeable members are the ones who will help the most, but they expect you to gain a thorough understanding of the "basics" by studying the mandatory reading sections. They are here to try to improve their skills and knowledge just as you are, as well as help those in need. But if they were to walk every newcomer through the basics, it would not only be frustrating, but very time consuming. This is why the mandatory reading is here, to provide the information needed to gain a basic understanding of fermentation, distillation and safety in a way that allows you to go at your own pace and learn without needing constant input from those more knowledgeable members.

Please try to understand that it's not about initiating the newbie or giving you a hard time, so much as it is showing you how to best make use of the resources available here. Ask too many questions that would be answered in the required reading, most of the advanced members will stop reading your posts, at least until they see you've applied the effort yourself to research and understand the basics (which I highly recommend).
This isn't to say you can't ask for clarification or advice, as that is encouraged in most cases. Only that you should use the search function and try to find the answer yourself first. It shows initiative, and most around here seem to like that. I'll admit I'm terrible when it comes to searching for specific topics, but I do try before I ask questions.

With that said, welcome to the forum! I hope I've been able to shed some light on a few things that will be of benefit to your use of the forum, and without ruffling feathers.

While I'm not new to distilling, I'm still pretty new here. And while I have a fair amount of knowledge, enough to get by and make pretty good likker, there are many members that have a far superior knowledge base and skill set. You'll figure out pretty quickly who they are if you read enough, and you'd be wise to suck up every bit of that knowledge they're willing to share. Coincidentally, they're also those most likely to jump all over you if you don't pay attention and/or read the stuff you need to be reading. Regardless of how harsh their comments may seem at times, try to realize it's always to help point you in the right direction and they are some of the most valuable assets this forum has to offer. Basically, if they speak, you should listen. You'll likely be the one losing out otherwise...

Take care, be safe and enjoy the journey!

[Hardcider]

Oh...I know everyone means well, trust me...all the advice is being taken. Thanks and my next wash will have the preferred ingredients. But I dont know what happened, after I added the vitamins...sulfur smell was gone. Dont know what happened and not saying it worked just informing you, smell was gone and the air lock was bubbling like someone just was blowing in it. Will test it out. NO DRINKING...JUST CHEMICAL TESTING!!!!!

[T-Pee]

Your yeast were starving. Simple (or as complicated) as that. You'd be pissed too if your mom fed you a similar diet.

Hunh. A chemist with access to a chromatograph. Maybe we'll keep you after all.

tp

[bearriver]

Hunh. A chemist with access to a chromatograph. Maybe we'll keep you after all.

tp

Indeed... Send the fixer. He can have him at the lair before lunch tomorrow.

[Shine NOLA]

, I'm going to throw a can of tomato paste at you. .

maybe it will bounce off his head and land in his fermenter

[rad14701]

Ray, that degree in chemistry ain't doing shit for you... And part of your education was to not make wild ass guesses... Seems like you've forgotten most of what you thought you knew... Now it's time to step back and do the mandatory research you've been poked, prodded and downright ass-kicked into doing...

While you're doing said mandatory research you'll discover that many recipes here do in fact call for multivitamins... You not finding that is proof that you are still not listening to what folks are telling you... Heck, you'll even stumble across a recipe I have posted that uses vitamins as the main source of nutrients... It uses Mega Men Prostate and Virility vitamins because I had a bottle here of my fathers that was past expiration... I've also used generic men's 50+ multivitamins...

Now, stop wasting everyones time and do the research...!!! Don't be so damned pig-headed...!!! Now, off with you...!!!

[T-Pee]

I warned you, Ray.

Jeez, Rad. Where ya been? I expected you on this one two days ago.

tp

[firewater69]

[Hardcider]

Ray, that degree in chemistry ain't doing shit for you... And part of your education was to not make wild ass guesses... Seems like you've forgotten most of what you thought you knew... Now it's time to step back and do the mandatory research you've been poked, prodded and downright ass-kicked into doing...

While you're doing said mandatory research you'll discover that many recipes here do in fact call for multivitamins... You not finding that is proof that you are still not listening to what folks are telling you... Heck, you'll even stumble across a recipe I have posted that uses vitamins as the main source of nutrients... It uses Mega Men Prostate and Virility vitamins because I had a bottle here of my fathers that was past expiration... I've also used generic men's 50+ multivitamins...

Now, stop wasting everyones time and do the research...!!! Don't be so damned pig-headed...!!! Now, off with you...!!!

LOL!! Thats funny Rad!! When I said I was going to use vitamins...everyone said I was dumb for doing that. Now you are saying there is a recipe for the use of vitamins! With no sarcasm....I serious did not know that. So my thinking wasn't far off after all. No prob!! Will keep on working on it!! I met a guy today that has been brewing his own beer for 20 years and he uses vitamins as well. But he did not start realizing vitamins work until about 10 years into his hobby. I also bought some yeast nutrients. And I am going to compare the recommended amount of yeast nutrients to my own blend of vitamins to see the difference...if no one minds. Once I get more experience of course.

[Soft batch]

LOL!! Thats funny Rad!! When I said I was going to use vitamins...everyone said I was dumb for doing that. Now you are saying there is a recipe for the use of vitamins! With no sarcasm....I serious did not know that. So my thinking wasn't far off after all. No prob!! Will keep on working on it!! I met a guy today that has been brewing his own beer for 20 years and he uses vitamins as well. But he did not start realizing vitamins work until about 10 years into his hobby. I also bought some yeast nutrients. And I am going to compare the recommended amount of yeast nutrients to my own blend of vitamins to see the difference...if no one minds. Once I get more experience of course.

No one said you were dumb for throwing a multi-vitamin in, the dumb part was the REASON why you threw it in. It was a wild-ass guess to provide some nutrients. No less than 10 people told you to go read the recipies in the tried and true section- which in turn would give you what nutrients and the reason why you needed them!

[ShineRunnah]

Safe experimentation is good. However, studying and learning the basics first is a good way to start. You may find in your research that others have already done exactly what you plan on doing, and save yourself some time and effort. You will also better understand your experiments if you have the knowledge to properly plan, execute and analyze the results of such experiments.

It's not that we had any issue with the vitamins, though there are cheaper ways to effectively achieve the same result. The problem was the guessing game you were playing. When I read your recipe, it was evident you didn't fully understand the fermentation process. It seemed you were flying blind, and that's not the way to a successful start in this hobby. It's better to see you spend more time researching and achieve good results early on, than to watch you make mistakes that are easily prevented with just a bit of knowledge.

That's why the required reading is there, to give you the majority of basic knowledge necessary. If you skip the reading in hopes someone will coach you along, you will soon come to realize it's really not an option.

[T-Pee]

Especially if Rad catches you out again.

tp

[Hardcider]

LOL!! Thats funny Rad!! When I said I was going to use vitamins...everyone said I was dumb for doing that. Now you are saying there is a recipe for the use of vitamins! With no sarcasm....I serious did not know that. So my thinking wasn't far off after all. No prob!! Will keep on working on it!! I met a guy today that has been brewing his own beer for 20 years and he uses vitamins as well. But he did not start realizing vitamins work until about 10 years into his hobby. I also bought some yeast nutrients. And I am going to compare the recommended amount of yeast nutrients to my own blend of vitamins to see the difference...if no one minds. Once I get more experience of course.

No one said you were dumb for throwing a multi-vitamin in, the dumb part was the REASON why you threw it in. It was a wild-ass guess to provide some nutrients. No less than 10 people told you to go read the recipies in the tried and true section- which in turn would give you what nutrients and the reason why you needed them!

Sorry I didn't guess. I figured once someone said I was starving my yeast....it was second nature to me to to understand they needed something extra. Plus when I was told to give them tomato paste, I looked upped the nutritional values of tomato paste. Same as vitamins. Hey I NEED your guys expertise, but that does not mean there isn't another way to do things. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[T-Pee]

LOL!! Thats funny Rad!! When I said I was going to use vitamins...everyone said I was dumb for doing that. Now you are saying there is a recipe for the use of vitamins! With no sarcasm....I serious did not know that. So my thinking wasn't far off after all. No prob!! Will keep on working on it!! I met a guy today that has been brewing his own beer for 20 years and he uses vitamins as well. But he did not start realizing vitamins work until about 10 years into his hobby. I also bought some yeast nutrients. And I am going to compare the recommended amount of yeast nutrients to my own blend of vitamins to see the difference...if no one minds. Once I get more experience of course.

No one said you were dumb for throwing a multi-vitamin in, the dumb part was the REASON why you threw it in. It was a wild-ass guess to provide some nutrients. No less than 10 people told you to go read the recipies in the tried and true section- which in turn would give you what nutrients and the reason why you needed them!

Sorry I didn't guess. I figured once someone said I was starving my yeast....it was second nature to me to to understand they needed something extra. Plus when I was told to give them tomato paste, I looked upped the nutritional values of tomato paste. Same as vitamins. Hey I NEED your guys expertise, but that does not mean there isn't another way to do things. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Sooo...are you Ray or Hardcider?

tp

[Hardcider]

Ray changed to Hardcider. I always hated Ray....first name.

[T-Pee]

You killed RAY?? I was just getting used to him.

tp