Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

[rad14701]

I have to say that I'm more than a bit disappointed with the "Membership has its benefits!" attitude being conveyed here... That is something that won't sit well with a lot more folks than just me... Open it up to everyone... That's not a request...

[Brewhaus]

By opening it up, then where is the benefit to becoming a member? That is our concern. We are then asking people to become members just for the sake of becoming members, with no benefit whatsoever. People want to see something in return for the membership dues. Believe me, I am open to hearing realistic options of other things that we can offer, but it would also likely require another volunteer to handle it as those involved currently are already pushed to their limit.

[wv_cooker]

As a member of the HDA I paid my 30 bucks and placed my name on the list because I firmly believe in the fight for our rights and for legalization of the hobby. As far as whether or not Rick and the others want to make the great information that I have read there available publicly, I could care less. Rick has put more into this than anyone I have seen in my time in the hobby and I appreciate his dedication. What I don't understand is the blind brow beating that he is given here daily by people who have preached legalization in everything this forum was supposed to stand for. I am thoroughly disappointed and have lost all respect for this great forum for the treatment of the few that are really trying to get our hobby legalized. Thanks Rick for all you have done and continue to do on my and the others behalf. As far as the forum you can do what you wish with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brewhaus]

Thank you, cooker. I appreciate the support.

[jarheadshiner]

I have to say that I'm more than a bit disappointed with the "Membership has its benefits!" attitude being conveyed here... That is something that won't sit well with a lot more folks than just me... Open it up to everyone... That's not a request...

Why shouldn't someone who is willing to OPENLY participate and join have benefits/accesss above someone who hasn't? Not sure what that last sentence meant but it sounds like you are trying to order someone to do something. Pretty bold words for someone who is not even willing to join himself.

[Stainless dude]

Well said WV_Cooker....

[rad14701]

Do what you want but I find it in poor taste to think that as a commercial enterprise sponsoring a public movement that you place a price on keeping updated on things... I'm not following what is happening on the site, and probably won't in the future, but I'm looking out for everyone else... When it smells like fish . . . . I wasn't aware that this whole thing was going to amount to a money grab much like several of our former members who were only looking to profit from our membership... Once bitten, twice shy, as they say... You can say nobody is profiting but, then again, nobody gets to keep updated freely, they must pay... Whether someone chooses to pay or not should not have any bearing on the freedom of information...

[Brewhaus]

Yes, Brewhaus is sponsoring the HDA, because it cannot sustain itself! To date membership has brought in $5400. The out of pocket cost, even if this somehow was miraculously completed in three months (the minimum commitment with the lobbyist), that still brings the association in $3500 short. In other words, if I had not stepped up to the plate and agreed to cover any shortfall, then the movement would have been dead before it started. If my commitment to lose money on this is a money grab by me, I fail to see it. Or am I simply expected to foot the entire bill on everyone's behalf??

I apologize for letting my frustration show.

[Jimbo]

Lets all pull on the same end of the rope guys. We all want the same thing. We all have different thresholds of comfort on exposure, financial abilities, free time for active involvement etc. etc

Regardless of these things, lets please all push this collectively, from whatever position we are able. Internal battles certainly wont help.

[rad14701]

I honestly don't think those who join should expect more than those who don't, plain and simple... They made a donation because they wanted to and felt comfortable doing so... We don't force our membership here to pay to get to "the good stuff", it's open to everyone whether they make a site donation or not... I still feel adamantly that all of the HDA should be open to all...

[Jasper]

As a member of the HDA I paid my 30 bucks and placed my name on the list because I firmly believe in the fight for our rights and for legalization of the hobby. As far as whether or not Rick and the others want to make the great information that I have read there available publicly, I could care less. Rick has put more into this than anyone I have seen in my time in the hobby and I appreciate his dedication. What I don't understand is the blind brow beating that he is given here daily by people who have preached legalization in everything this forum was supposed to stand for. I am thoroughly disappointed and have lost all respect for this great forum for the treatment of the few that are really trying to get our hobby legalized. Thanks Rick for all you have done and continue to do on my and the others behalf. As far as the forum you can do what you wish with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we agree with each other and i would be willing to bet that 99% of the members signed up feel the same way you do (not caring if the public sees the info). I dont think people are going to be signing up for the benefits... they are signing up for the cause. Progressing the cause should be reward enough and if people see a movement already happening more are likely to join the fight and, hopefully, pay to join.

I get that they are trying to offset their out of pocket - i really do. That is a shit ton of money and i tip my cap to you for trying to get this started. I just think that all information should be public so the public (which will ultimately be responsible for pushing this movement forward) can make an informed decision.

Just one guys opinion

[Brewhaus]

I agree completely, Jimbo.

[rad14701]

The last I'll comment on the matter is that allowing all information to be viewed by all might be more productive than the exclusivity of only paid members being able to keep up to date... Letting everyone see the progress would be more likely to sway more folks to actually make a contribution, regardless of the amount...

[wv_cooker]

I agree that publicizing the progress would probably benefit all interested. As a member I really hope not expect only one benefit and that is legalization. I just don't see how brow beating the one man that had the ability and was willing to step up for us all is helping anything.

Agree one hundred percent Jimbo we should all be pulling the same rope!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brewhaus]

I can talk to the others that are running the HDA and see if they are willing to at least expand the 'membership' area to the non-hobbyist supporters (a free option), but realistically, how many of those complaining that the information is currently offered to members only have even been to the HDA site and looked at the options to see that was available? If people are not even supporting the association then why should the association change to support them instead of focusing on its supporters? I would wager that most, if not all, who are this aware of the association but have not signed up at some level (even free) by this point are not suddenly going to sign up if we open the members area up to the public.

But, as Jimbo said, we are after the same thing, and bickering is just a waste of time and energy.

[WhiteDevil504]

I can only speak for myself but I can say that I am watching and interested in participating but am not considering putting my name on a list or throwing much at it until I see if this particular attempt gets momentum beyond the initial post here. I have found some older threads with past attempts that you can see died on the vine so to speak, why expose yourself or dump cash into what could be another fleeting attempt. Perhaps showing the progress made to date and why this is already moving further than past attempts would go a long way in persuading people to jump on board. I have no doubts that everyone has the best intentions but this is not the first time the concept has been floated, showcasing that it's moving further or thus far has been more effective might help.

Again just my humble thoughts on the matter, regardless the wasted energy bickering over the subject is unfortunate as we all want the same thing.

[Brewhaus]

I do not think that I will get much argument by saying this is likely the most solid push to date. There have been many previous attempts to get legalization pushed through, but none had the backing or a years' worth of work by multiple people. I think that the biggest difference is that, by backing the financial commitment, this time the movement can be seen through. This push has also be far more aggressive than any that I know of in the past. That is not all to say that it cannot fall apart, just that it is already the most concerted and stable push for legalization, and we are making headway.

And on that note, I really have to get some work done...

[jarheadshiner]

I think bars would be a great place to drop some flyers off. i know we have have a ton of those little poker machine gambling joints around here. I reckon you would have a better chance that a bar owner would allow it than say a library. Plus you got drinkers there

Anybody else think of some good spots to drop em off?

[Stainless dude]

I for one am really disappointed with the lack of positive involment from this membership of this forum on this legalization effort. I've heard plenty of "I'm afraid to sign up cause there is a list" . Well I can't count the number of times I've read that if the Feds want you they will get you. You know they are here on the forum reading everything we say, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
We have a chance to really do something here but there is just too much negativity, please step up to the plate and do something positive, or in the least be positive. Sign up or not but please quite knocking the effort.....

[Jasper]

I for one am really disappointed with the lack of positive involment from this membership of this forum on this legalization effort. I've heard plenty of "I'm afraid to sign up cause there is a list" . Well I can't count the number of times I've read that if the Feds want you they will get you. You know they are here on the forum reading everything we say, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
We have a chance to really do something here but there is just too much negativity, please step up to the plate and do something positive, or in the least be positive. Sign up or not but please quite knocking the effort.....

I don't think anyone is knocking the effort - the majority of the comments have been constructive criticism (which is a good thing). We all have same end goal - just different viewpoints of how to get there. Thats politics, buddy.

And you are kidding yourself if you think that a bunch of people actively committing a felony are going to be eager to put their names down on a list which will be handed to government officials.

[HDNB]

i'm non partisan on this;i don't live in the USA...but the whole argument is fascinating

it makes sense that this forum does not promote commercial enterprise. it makes sense that Brewhaus wants to help legalization; it would be a boon to their business. since Brewhaus owns/administers the HDA site, obviously they can do what they want with it.

Being exclusionary to any information seems counter productive to to both HDA's efforts and to Brewhaus' commercial enterprise. They say that there is no such thing as bad advertising, but flat out excluding customers seems an odd tack to take. I would liken it to charging 30 to be able to see what is available on your online store. You ain't Costco. And i don't shop there either...for the same reason.

on edit -that last line reads wrong -i actually do shop at brewhaus (they don't charge to see their goodies) but not at costco (because they do).

Another controversial enterprise is always fund raising and they have a different approach. selling logo'd items AND asking for help, but with a never ending stream of information check them out: http://www.seashepherd.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow these people have been called both terrorists and heros, me personally i have almost been in a fist fight and had my dinner bought for me simply for wearing their t-shirt! it's a $3 Tee that i paid 30 bucks for, plus freight, and i gave them a donation too...since i was spending money anyway.
what i'm saying is, you need money to fight. there is more than one way to get that money, and hiding your purpose and information behind a veil of secrecy breeds distrust and contempt. Turn on your inner marketing genius and spread the word...it will go a lot farther...but it is your website.

[Brewhaus]

since Brewhaus owns/administers the HDA site, obviously they can do what they want with it.

Brewhaus may officially own the HDA, but it is not being run that way. The one and only reason that the HDA remains under the Brewhaus umbrella is so that we can absorb many of the costs, and avoid costs that would be incurred by setting up a separate entity. However, we are operating the HDA as though it was a standalone operation. All of the HDA volunteers have equal say, meaning that I am just one vote on how things proceed.

How progress updates are handled was discussed amongst the group, and the reasons for the decision were already discussed here. This thread really seems to have turned into bickering about how the HDA should be run, mostly by those who are not even supporting it, let alone offering to actually be involved with it. If there is no more positive input to be had, then I think that we should just call it a day on this thread (IMO).

[Snuffy-ga]

I can talk to the others that are running the HDA and see if they are willing to at least expand the 'membership' area to the non-hobbyist supporters (a free option), but realistically, how many of those complaining that the information is currently offered to members only have even been to the HDA site and looked at the options to see that was available? If people are not even supporting the association then why should the association change to support them instead of focusing on its supporters? I would wager that most, if not all, who are this aware of the association but have not signed up at some level (even free) by this point are not suddenly going to sign up if we open the members area up to the public.

But, as Jimbo said, we are after the same thing, and bickering is just a waste of time and energy.

I have seen and fully believe that if a thing is progressing, those that may be on the fence so to speak, wont join in until it looks like it is going to succeed. They want a sure thing and will gladly back a winning horse. Keeping information private that could benefit the cause only hurts the cause. And I am not willing to give up just because a person will not put his or her name on a list. There are other ways to progress the cause.

Just an opinion...

[stillin]

Gotta agree with wv cooker and stainless dude on this one. The man is trying his best to push for the very thing that everyone on this forum dreams of and most of the members who posted are doing nothing but beating him down. I see nothing wrong with asking people to pay a fee, this kinda thing ain't free. Very disappointing.

[varocketry]

Brewhaus, TChowdrey:

Hey, the fund-raiser idea a few posts up made me think of how to really do something like that.

How about a KICKSTARTER project or one of the clone sites?

Just getting the exposure would be a great win, the funding would be an incredible bonus.
The ad guy, Tom, would be a great strategy guy to provide guidance on the messaging to use and content of supporting presentation including an engaging video.

The participation levels can range from grateful thanks to t-shirts to a still post-legalization based on level.

What do you think?

[Brewhaus]

I am not sure exactly what you are referring to, but am open to any ideas that can help. If you can, give a bit more information and I will take it to the guys heading up the HDA.

[Cardinalbags]

Have you guys thought of anonymous donation ideas? Some of you want to contribute but not have your name on a list....

Try purchasing a pre-paid visa gift card which are available at stores. You can buy them and not have to give your name or id, just the cash equivalent. If the HDA accepts visa donations, then voila.

[varocketry]

Brewhaus:

The idea is to use KICKSTARTER or one of its clone sites for a dual purpose. First, they have a HUGE following to gain exposure to a carefully crafted message.

Second, people on the Internet donate money to these projects for all sorts of reasons. On the clone sites, there are appeals for $750 for some schmo to attend his highschool reunion and he's given $1,349.

KICKSTARTER is the first and most rule based, juried site - meaning they screen appeals and only good ones make it online. Other s act more like EBAY or Fiverr in that they'll put anything up to make their cut.

Attention and exposure is the primary goal I'd believe with actual $$$ raising a great by-product. But it may work well in the reverse, too. The key is to develop a great story and supporting video with substantial production values. I think we might crowd-source the work on some of this, too.

[Brewhaus]

I have never heard of them, but will definitely check them out.

[Brewhaus]

A big move in getting the word out there- http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20 ... -hobby.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow