Jimbo's Electric Conversion

[Hound Dog]

I will pray for you

Sounds like time for a smoke test.

They have these cheap meters on ebay too. Here's one, very little info given except says 'direct connect'. GIven its a chinese cheapo their are NO guarentees, but I have the voltage versions of these cheap meters and they work fine and seen to read accurately.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-30A-Ampmeter ... 3f256c1938" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The meter only costs $5 bucks and they'll ship it to you free from China I couldnt mail it to my next door neighbor for 5 bucks. Must be a precision piece eh

Does this analog meter require a shunt?

[still_stirrin]

...Does this analog meter require a shunt?...

Nope. Its just like the ones I bought..the shunt is internal. So, no external shunt needed.
ss

[still_stirrin]

I also have voltmeters in the circuit, but they don't tell me much. The current flow, on the other hand, is a fantastic adjustment tool....recommended!

???

Volts or amps give you the same indication of what your element is doing. You can get to power from either, or just stick with volts or amps if you calibrate your head that way to your runs.

Not exactly Jimbo. The voltage doesn't rise and fall (proportionally) with adjustment of the pot. Since the duty cycle is adjusted, the voltage doesn't fall linearly with the control setting.

But the current measurement does pretty much move linearly with control setting. At least that's the way my triac controlled circuits work. And since power is the integral of the voltage and current, it is easier to "see" on the ammeter gage than the voltmeter.

Now, I don't really need a power measurement...just a good representation of what's feeding the heater element. I use the amps to tell me where it's running ideally. That helps with the consistency in the operation of MY still.

YMMV.
ss

[Hound Dog]

...Does this analog meter require a shunt?...

Nope. Its just like the ones I bought..the shunt is internal. So, no external shunt needed.
ss

Well that explains why I couldn't get mine to work! I havery two just like that hooked to shunts. When I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong to get no reading I just went digital. I thought all the analog jobs needed a shunt. Live and learn!

[Haus]

So did anyone else's b-hole get a little tighter the first time you plugged in your controller?

Small victory I suppose, it didn't go up in smoke and the 110 outlet and switches worked fine.

Didn't have the heating element connected, have a few minor cosmetic touch-ups to do on the keg itself before a full test but I'm encouraged.

[Jimbo]

Oh yes. Deep breath close your eyes pinch your cheeks tightly together and throw the breaker. 240 on cheap ass chinese junk electronics is a little ass puckery for sure

Note the voltage wont be right without a load attached.

[jedneck]

Oh yes. Deep breath close your eyes pinch your cheeks tightly together and throw the breaker. 240 on cheap ass chinese junk electronics is a little ass puckery for sure

Note the voltage wont be right without a load attached.

Ass puckered tight like you were at a village people show.

[HDNB]

Oh yes. Deep breath close your eyes pinch your cheeks tightly together and throw the breaker. 240 on cheap ass chinese junk electronics is a little ass puckery for sure

Note the voltage wont be right without a load attached.

Ass puckered tight like you were at a village people show.

BWAhahahaah.
Jed you owe me a keyboard.

[jedneck]

Oh yes. Deep breath close your eyes pinch your cheeks tightly together and throw the breaker. 240 on cheap ass chinese junk electronics is a little ass puckery for sure

Note the voltage wont be right without a load attached.

Ass puckered tight like you were at a village people show.

BWAhahahaah.
Jed you owe me a keyboard.

Its in the mail. Keyboard better than phone.

[Haus]

First cleaning run done. No issues with leaks and such. Victory.
Element and controller didn't smoke. Wiring from the breaker to the controller...cold. Victory.
Pot still head ran great, hard to mess that up, though.

Boka, I don't know, really couldn't get a consistent drip or stream going (with water/vinegar mixture). More of a stop & start flow. drip, drip, drip, small stream, stop, drip, drip , drip, repeat. Much to learn there.
Although I do have some build questions there.
Can the condenser be to close to the plates?
I am thinking about adding a round, downward curved plate to the bottom of the condenser, I forget the correct name for it, would that be a bad thing? I am using a double wound w/coldfinger.

[Haus]

This may be the last kick of that dead horse I have. I know, thank god
Is this right for the ammeter and is it on the power input side of the scr or the output side (to the element)?

[Jimbo]

Looks fine. Output side.

[Haus]

Thanks Jimbo!

[Hound Dog]

Boka, I don't know, really couldn't get a consistent drip or stream going (with water/vinegar mixture). More of a stop & start flow. drip, drip, drip, small stream, stop, drip, drip , drip, repeat. Much to learn there.
Although I do have some build questions there.
Can the condenser be to close to the plates?
I am thinking about adding a round, downward curved plate to the bottom of the condenser, I forget the correct name for it, would that be a bad thing? I am using a double wound w/coldfinger.

As long as your condenser isn't touching your plate it should be fine. See what happens with your sacraficial alcohol run. It should run different. If it still chuggs, there may be something wrong with your valve. It's a pretty foolproof design.

[Haus]

Out of curiosity, those that use the 10,000 watt SCR, when you first turn the dial does it go about a 1/4 turn before you see any amps on the meter?

[rad14701]

Out of curiosity, those that use the 10,000 watt SCR, when you first turn the dial does it go about a 1/4 turn before you see any amps on the meter?

That is a very common functional component of all single and dual time constant power controllers... They must be turned up almost 1/4 of the way (~30 volts or more) before they start functioning, but can then be turned way down (~5 volt range) before functionality ceases... I have built many such circuit designs and they all have the same trait... My current preference is to build hysterisis-free circuit designs to eliminate that trait...

[Haus]

Roger That! Thanks Rad!

I have to say at this point I am nothing less than stunned how much better electric is than propane. Heating up the water for the sac run wash now.

I just want to take a minute and give a heart felt Thank You to each and everyone of you for helping me along the way. I know it seemed I just wasn't getting it at times.

[raketemensch]

Since this seems to be the most popular thread on the subject, has anyone come up with a good solution for a no weld/solder attachment of the element?

I've seen a couple of adapters/brackets mentioned, but they're galvanized with zinc, and they apparently also rust. I was wondering if anyone might've found a stainless/copper solution for mounting them.

[raketemensch]

Well, I just re-read Jimbo's OP, and noticed that this *is* a no-weld/solder solution. Duh

It doesn't seem to me like hot glue would be strong enough to let you tighten the element enough, but I guess it worked for you, and I'll find out if it works for me this week when my Camco 02962/02963 and stainless nuts arrive. I ordered them from China last week, and they'll be here in 1.5 weeks, which seems like a new record. I ordered my controller from China almost 3 weeks ago and it still hasn't even reached the west coast yet...

Slow, but steady progress, one step at a time.

[Jimbo]

The hot glue held the nut in place long enough to get the thread started. Remember the nut is inside a keg with a 2 inch opening at the top. Good luck getting anything in there to hold the nut. Once you threading of the element was started its no problem getting it tight.

All said I do not recommend this approach. You cannot pull the element out to clean or replace it. If you put a weld spud on there, or better yet weld a ferrule on for a tri clamp fitting you can easily pull the element out as needed.

[jedneck]

Well, I just re-read Jimbo's OP, and noticed that this *is* a no-weld/solder solution. Duh

It doesn't seem to me like hot glue would be strong enough to let you tighten the element enough, but I guess it worked for you, and I'll find out if it works for me this week when my Camco 02962/02963 and stainless nuts arrive. I ordered them from China last week, and they'll be here in 1.5 weeks, which seems like a new record. I ordered my controller from China almost 3 weeks ago and it still hasn't even reached the west coast yet...

Slow, but steady progress, one step at a time.

You can always solder the nut to your boiler.
Posted with Jimbo.

[Haus]

I read back thru some of the posts on controllers and see where some folks add a light switch to cut the "non-controller" wire so the unit can be ran at 120V.
I do not see what amp rating switch they actually choose, is 15, 20 or 30?
If it is stated and just plain missed it, my apologies.

[raketemensch]

I may end up doing that. I'm constantly at the edge of acceptable expenditures on this project, since I only recently started up, and I'm always trying to sneak in $25-30 here and there. I say this mainly because I don't have a mapp gas torch for the soldering, but I may be able to borrow one and save the expense for later -- I was eyeing them at Tractor Supply earlier while picking up some cracked corn, and they were running $60-99. I'll go watch some videos on soldering stainless to stainless, as I also picked up one of these recently, and it seems like a better way to go, long-term.

I've got some 10/3 wire here already, and the controller apparently reached California late last night, so this weekend I should be able to get the keg ready to go. Then I'm down to just building the column, but since I'm just doing a potstill to begin with, it should be pretty quick to cobble together once I finally source the copper. I found a guy locally with a bunch of 20' lengths of 2" and 3" copper in his barn, but he wants to sell them whole. Finding a 3' piece has proven difficult.

Again, thanks for all the advice. A lot of us would be lost without this place and the advice of people like yourselves.

[HDNB]

I read back thru some of the posts on controllers and see where some folks add a light switch to cut the "non-controller" wire so the unit can be ran at 120V.
I do not see what amp rating switch they actually choose, is 15, 20 or 30?
If it is stated and just plain missed it, my apologies.

can't do it. I mean you could....you would have to switch the neutral in at the same time, which would be iffy at best.

the switch you are seeing is likely the holy shit switch, a way to shut down fast if need be. I use a double pole 20A on mine and switch both legs so she's dead dead. Thankfully only had to use it once on an uneventful but spectacular puke.

you would use the rating that is at the max of your current draw eg. 5500w draws down about 21.5A at full smoke.

[Haus]

Ah, ok, maybe I just misunderstood the intention of it.
I thought they were using a switch on one leg of the 220 to drop it down to 120 once it everything got heated up.
Obviously, I need to read more better.
Thanks for the info!

[raketemensch]

Alright, I'm stumped. I've installed the new breaker, wired it to a new 220v outlet, and tested that I get 220 from it.

I've got the red wire going into my box, then directly to the element.

The black wire goes into the AC input on the SCR. Then it comes out of the output and goes straight to the element.

The ground wire comes into the box, and is grounded to the SCR, then it continues out of the box and is attached to the keg.

I've used a circuit tester to verify that the 220 is there, and that the single leg in the SCR is at 110.

That's it, right? I'm not missing anything? I don't believe I need a neutral in this case, since the black and red both carry power. Here's a quick schematic:

wiring_diagram.png (7.02 KiB) Viewed 1626 times

The element just never heats up. I can even hear the fan running in the SCR, but it's like no power is passed to the element. I've tried the potentiometer at high, low and middle. Nada.

Edit: I've also now verified that each input on the element has 110 by testing it to the keg.

I installed a new breaker today so that each leg of the 30-amp circuit breaker is getting 110 from a different bus in the sub-panel.

[4xRotor]

How is your pot wired?

[Jimbo]

Nope, if youre using one of these controllers like I did you need 220 in and out. Check wiring diagram here... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7131036

[raketemensch]

How is your pot wired?

It's got two ins, and two outs. So I've got one leg going direct, and the other leg going to one input and one output.

[4xRotor]

The adjustable potentiometer. Is it wired pins one and three or two and three?