Oaking and aging the T-Pee way

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Sorry miss-understood things and wanted to be sure it was clear. It was clear as mud to me apparently....

B

Sallgud

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[der wo]

I believe that chart is more about toasting rather than charing. There's a big difference.

Does that mean, all the whiskeys aged in untoasted only charred barrels don't have those flavors?
Definetely no. Or works it like "ok I want maximum vanilla, so I set my oven on 400°F and the longer I wait, the more vanilla I get"? No. A short toast at 400F will taste oaky, a long toast will have burnt flavors. Same at 300F (needs a bit longer) and 500F (needs shorter). The main difference between long 300 and short 500 is, that with short 500 you have more different toasts in the wood, outside dark, inside light, IF the wood is thick enough for that. That's why sticks are more recommended here than chips. More complex taste.
I found the chart very interesting, because the general principles (the sequence of the tastes) are important of course. But that's all. Its practical use is overrated imo.

I understand that. But who chars at 400 degrees?

Noone chars at 400. But what temp has the wood 1cm under the surface, if you hold a propane torch on it X seconds? Perhaps 400. But how long you need the 400 to get the vanilla? What do you get with longer or shorter 400?

The chart is about wood and temperature. But it's unscientific, because there is no info on the duration of heating or the thickness of the wood. Without a detailed description of the experiment, this chart has only a small relevance.

I hope I understand it right, but as far as I know, the development of the tastes from the wood using heat is a continous degradation. It's not like "it's 400, so there will be vanilla". More like "it's getting hot, so the oaky flavor gets sweeter, after a while more and more vanilla, then toasty and burnt".

Even if it would be true, that if you hold the 400, you will never reach the almond and acrid tastes, not after 24h toasting, what would be the practical consequence? Nothing (except your kitchen is smelling better than your whisky). Because no distillery uses barrels toasted at 400. All use open flames and they do it onesided after coopering. So the heat is uneven, on the surface always more than 400 on the outside always much less. Probably they can control much, for example they found by experimenting, that a special combination of temperature and duration forms somewhere i the wood a relative thick layer vanilla taste, so this is the vanilla barrel toast. But even if you get detailed infos from them, how to adapt for your own 53gal barrel without the same torching machine? Or a smaller barrel, badmobarrel or sticks?

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I believe that chart is more about toasting rather than charing. There's a big difference.

Does that mean, all the whiskeys aged in untoasted only charred barrels don't have those flavors?
Definetely no. Or works it like "ok I want maximum vanilla, so I set my oven on 400°F and the longer I wait, the more vanilla I get"? No. A short toast at 400F will taste oaky, a long toast will have burnt flavors. Same at 300F (needs a bit longer) and 500F (needs shorter). The main difference between long 300 and short 500 is, that with short 500 you have more different toasts in the wood, outside dark, inside light, IF the wood is thick enough for that. That's why sticks are more recommended here than chips. More complex taste.
I found the chart very interesting, because the general principles (the sequence of the tastes) are important of course. But that's all. Its practical use is overrated imo.

I understand that. But who chars at 400 degrees?

Noone chars at 400. But what temp has the wood 1cm under the surface, if you hold a propane torch on it X seconds? Perhaps 400. But how long you need the 400 to get the vanilla? What do you get with longer or shorter 400?

The chart is about wood and temperature. But it's unscientific, because there is no info on the duration of heating or the thickness of the wood. Without a detailed description of the experiment, this chart has only a small relevance.

I hope I understand it right, but as far as I know, the development of the tastes from the wood using heat is a continous degradation. It's not like "it's 400, so there will be vanilla". More like "it's getting hot, so the oaky flavor gets sweeter, after a while more and more vanilla, then toasty and burnt".

Even if it would be true, that if you hold the 400, you will never reach the almond and acrid tastes, not after 24h toasting, what would be the practical consequence? Nothing (except your kitchen is smelling better than your whisky). Because no distillery uses barrels toasted at 400. All use open flames and they do it onesided after coopering. So the heat is uneven, on the surface always more than 400 on the outside always much less. Probably they can control much, for example they found by experimenting, that a special combination of temperature and duration forms somewhere i the wood a relative thick layer vanilla taste, so this is the vanilla barrel toast. But even if you get detailed infos from them, how to adapt for your own 53gal barrel without the same torching machine? Or a smaller barrel, badmobarrel or sticks?

Maybe that is part of the reason the whiskey we can make at home is so easily superior to commercial products?

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[Swedish Pride]

Maybe that is part of the reason the whiskey we can make at home is so easily superior to commercial products?

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I've yet to make anything that is nicer that the commercial stuff I buy...
What do (did) you buy that is so shit?

or maybe I should ask, what the hell am I doing that my stuff isn't as good as yours

[der wo]

Maybe that is part of the reason the whiskey we can make at home is so easily superior to commercial products?

Is it easy?
It's easy to make a better bourbon than JB. But it will be not only better, but also very different. So you will always find someone, who likes JB more. I find it's very easy, to avoid the bad sides of cheap products, but difficult to copy the good sides. For example the coconut taste in JD.
IMO

[der wo]

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Yes. I think we all know it now. Is it possible to stop this info under all your posts?

Sent from my REAL-C0M-PUTER using Firefox

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Yes. I think we all know it now. Is it possible to stop this info under all your posts?

Sent from my REAL-C0M-PUTER using Firefox

Yes, I just have to click the little box. I never think about it and didn't know it was annoying. It's automatic.
Spend enough time on Internet forums and you'll never even notice it, it's quite common.



At any rate. All I read about on here is how quickly home distillers can manage to make spirits better than commercial stuff. I am a bourbon drinker, I don't know much about scotch. But I can say that I do enjoy sipping on the stuff I am making just as much as I enjoy Woodford or Knob Creek single barrel.
Is it better, no. But after tasting what I am making now I would expect it to best those bottles once I master AG.
I don't mean to toot my own horn. I always expected that if I like my whiskey this much, you veterans must be making some truly exceptional hooch. But I am also well aware of the psychology behind thinking something you made yourself tastes better than something you didn't. But honestly, I am surprised that my comment is meeting such criticism. Cause the fact that we can make better than most commercial spirits was one of the first things I remember learning on here. I guess it stuck cause I was surprised. But I have yet to experience anything in this venture that would lead me to believe that is untrue. It's the same way in beer making. When I was home brewing, 6 batches in and I was making stuff that out classed Chimay, or Tremens. Why should it be different with whiskey?
We simply have more ways to easily control every little detail of a small batch. It's the consistency that's the hard part.

[Swedish Pride]

didn't mean to criticize, i re-read my comment and see why you took it that way though.
just because I can't do it well does not mean you are full of it

[der wo]

Me too. Didn't want to criticize. Yes, rereading it looks like I am not happy with your comment, because I find it arrogant or something, and after all my anger is such big, that I complain about your tapatalk. Didn't mean it like that.
Cheers.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I am sure you guys are just more humble than I am. I'd have a harder time believing my product is better than the veterans on here than I do believing I can accomplish what Woodford does on a small scale.

However, your candor is appreciated.

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[Shiny Coke]

I'm with Swedish Pride. I've always wondered if I'm the only guy here that thought his stuff is good but its not better than everything else out there. My stuff is good and I like it both for taste and a bit of self pride that I can drink (and enjoy) what I make when its a big unknown to most folks. Some of my batches are better than commercial and some are nowhere near as good. Depends on what you're comparing it to. The trick is to find how to make the stuff you really like on a continual basis and from there its all gravy! Hmmm...... "gravy shine"?!

[rad14701]

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Yes. I think we all know it now. Is it possible to stop this info under all your posts?

Sent from my REAL-C0M-PUTER using Firefox

Yes, I just have to click the little box. I never think about it and didn't know it was annoying. It's automatic.

It IS annoying to have an advertisement in every post made by Tapatalk...!!! In fact I have been tempted to see if it would be possible to strip those lines from rendered pages before they are sent from the HD server... I know it can be done because I've written similar code in the past... It's not like HD is getting paid to have the advertising here and Uncle Jesse has denied several entities offering to advertise here over the years... Let's keep HD Ad-Free...!!!

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Is this better?

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Umm...
Is this better?

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Why aren't my posts showing?

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[T-Pee]

Oh, they're showing alright.

tp

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Well I can't see shit.

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[Hillbilly Popstar]

The way I see it, the owner of this forum chose to support Tapatalk. So anyone that takes issue with it shouldn't take it up with me.

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[thecroweater]

The way I see it, the owner of this forum chose to support Tapatalk. So anyone that takes issue with it shouldn't take it up with me.

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

Let's not continue to clutter up the thread with this there are other places to discuss it. One thing I will say is the apathalk message is a blatant spam ad that is not encouraged here so if you can turn the spam off please do

[Danespirit]

+1 Thecroweater.

Maybe that is part of the reason the whiskey we can make at home is so easily superior to commercial products?

One thing I can say...it's not easy..
Definitely, I made a lot of mistakes, even though I was reading till my eyes bleed.
No distiller is better than the last batch he produced...
I'll leave the constructive criticism to others that tasted my product.
By paying attention to their words, I can improve my skills.
Another way is to read the wise words from experienced members in here...there are many gold nuggets laying around, one just has to pick them up.
Having a feeling of making a product far superior to others, ain't the right way to learn...your arrogance will block the positive input. (no offence to you and not meant as an insult).

[Hillbilly Popstar]

+1 Thecroweater.

Maybe that is part of the reason the whiskey we can make at home is so easily superior to commercial products?

One thing I can say...it's not easy..
Definitely, I made a lot of mistakes, even though I was reading till my eyes bleed.
No distiller is better than the last batch he produced...
I'll leave the constructive criticism to others that tasted my product.
By paying attention to their words, I can improve my skills.
Another way is to read the wise words from experienced members in here...there are many gold nuggets laying around, one just has to pick them up.
Having a feeling of making a product far superior to others, ain't the right way to learn...your arrogance will block the positive input. (no offence to you and not meant as an insult).

Arrogance is the wrong term. I think you misunderstood the intent of my post.
Perhaps "easily" was a poor choice of words on my part.
I didn't mean to say that we can make better spirits than commercial because I feel that i am doing so now. I said that cause I have read that exact sentiment on here hundreds of times and it seems to be the consensus on the forum. Yet now I am under attack because you feel I am being arrogant. No, it's not arrogance, it's just that with lots of hardwork, research, and practice, I also expect that some day I will be able to make world class spirits.

There seems to be a bias here on how many regulars treat certain members of this forum. I guarantee if a different member had made a similar comment it wouldn't have found such critical responses.

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[HDNB]

toasting temperature and aging proof make for a more uniform outcome, consistantly. 380 is my magic temperature. 400 is too hot and gets acrid. 350 and below is woody. the charring as descrbed earlier is an important function for color and carmelization.
IMHO

base pandering aside, i enjoyed all those posts from all y'all. a lot more entertaining than the dry crap iv'e been stuck on and spewing lately. thanks for keeping me entertained.

[der wo]

I guarantee if a different member had made a similar comment it wouldn't have found such critical responses.

That's right. But that's life. Some have more reputation than you (and me). Why? Because they are long time members and helped with their numerous posts homedistilling to a higher level. But not because they deserve it and you not, they get other answers, it's because we read different things between the lines.
And I think we all do the same. If we read something new, unexpected or incomplete (your "it's easy..." was incomplete imo) here, we also take into account, who writes it. Also because there are so many posts here every day, we don't decide right always. For example the discussion about marbles for packing. Of course noone would have believed rads success, if he was a new member.
We are reading here and have to decide, what could be right and what not. This behaviour is not bug-free, but the best we can do with our limited time and energy.

[der wo]

consistantly. 380 is my magic temperature. 400 is too hot and gets acrid. 350 and below is woody.

In an oven? Do you have a specific duration at 380? Or do you think, a half hour more or less is all the same?

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I guarantee if a different member had made a similar comment it wouldn't have found such critical responses.

That's right. But that's life. Some have more reputation than you (and me). Why? Because they are long time members and helped with their numerous posts homedistilling to a higher level. But not because they deserve it and you not, they get other answers, it's because we read different things between the lines.
And I think we all do the same. If we read something new, unexpected or incomplete (your "it's easy..." was incomplete imo) here, we also take into account, who writes it. Also because there are so many posts here every day, we don't decide right always. For example the discussion about marbles for packing. Of course noone would have believed rads success, if he was a new member.
We are reading here and have to decide, what could be right and what not. This behaviour is not bug-free, but the best we can do with our limited time and energy.

Sounds like an admittion to folly.
But such is life. Nobody is perfect.

Guess I just can't win.

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[der wo]

Sounds like an admittion to folly.
But such is life. Nobody is perfect.

Guess I just can't win.

- Don't worry, you don't have a low value here. But anyway, your value on the forum is no real value. It does not define your value in real world.
- Yes, you can't win. It's not like boxing, jumping in the ring and knocking out the Nr.1, now you are new Nr.1.

What I had written to a long time member, who writes "it's easy..."?
Either nothing, because I think he knows what I would write. Or exactly the same. And even without modification it would sound more that I am talking about problems I have or other members have perhaps.

[HDNB]

consistantly. 380 is my magic temperature. 400 is too hot and gets acrid. 350 and below is woody.

In an oven? Do you have a specific duration at 380? Or do you think, a half hour more or less is all the same?

3/4-1" thick (stave thickness) kinda wood, soaked for couple hours to rinse them, 1.5hours at 380. then medium to heavy char, then into the likker.

I lice ya, hillbilly.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I will say this and leave it alone cause we've already been warned about derailing this thread. It's not so much my value I am worried about. I just 3ant to be an accepted member of this community. It means something to me to be excepted by those I respect. Maybe that's petty, I don't know.
Sorry if I came across arrogant. I try not to be.

Ok, now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[Hillbilly Popstar]

And I still can't see any content in my own posts. Lol

Sent with love from my Springfield XD .45, tactical edition! c(-;

[T-Pee]

Look in a mirror. Do you reflect? Just checkin'.

tp