Linedog wrote:New to this.....what type bakers yeast and how much for a sweet feed mash
I developed a spreadsheet to answer the "how much" question a few years ago. It takes into account the volume of wash, the final abv of wash, and how old the yeast is.
I would be happy to post it to this forum, but sadly I don't think that capability exists here.
toddk63 wrote:I would be happy to post it to this forum, but sadly I don't think that capability exists here.
You should be able to post as a .zip, otherwise change the file extension to .pdf and make a note of the file extension it needs to be renamed to once downloaded...
Here is my yeast pitching calculator. Enter the date the package was opened or expiration date, which ever is earlier. Enter the volume of wash in liters. Enter the expected abv%. Enter an annual degradation factor. From the attached notes , you can see that if vacuum sealed after opening and kept at 4°C, degradation is only 5% / year. If you don't vac seal, it jumps to 8% / month ! I honestly don't remember where I came up with the curve to derive the formula, but knowing myself, it probably came from some published brewing technical reference.
I pitched EC-1118 (aka champagne yeast) in an all-grain mash (80% rice, 20% wheat malt) and it does not start fermenting after one day
It's anything wrong?
Will it start or will not? to expect more or to pitch another yeast (baker's)?
MY RUM RECIPE USING EC 1118 yeast
I use 10g of EC 1118 champagne yeast with the following recipe.
1 teaspoon of yeast nutrient
4 liters molassis
3 kg fructose
1/2 to 1 kg of milled malted barley
30 liters water
The first batch took about 4 days to complete at approximately 17 to 18% abv.
I left the barley and the yeast dregs in the bottom of the tub.
As I am new to all of this, I thought I would try to repitch the leftover yeast.
I mixed about 500ml of sugar water and added a couple of tablespoons of the dregs from the bottom of the tub,
shook this vigorously to aerate and left to see what would happen.
I thought I would have to wait overnight to see any results, but to my surprise, within about an hour it was bubbling vigorously.
I then decided to mix a new batch of molassis and fructose (another teaspoon of yeast nutrient) and added it straight back in the tub which contained all the dregs.
I was surprised once again as it only took about 2 days to complete.
I tried the same all over again a 3rd time, this time I used 50% backset which I save from the previous batch and to my amazement it completed in about 36 hours. I thought that the ferment must have stuck,
but when I checked it had completed its fermentation at about 18%.
This recipe is better then the distillery rum yeast that contain amyloglucosidase (this is why I added the barley) and only ferments out to 15% abv..
Last edited by jiml07 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What you are experiencing is the same as using a huge yeast starter colony to kick off your fermentation. You are putting your wash into a container with an established colony of yeast ready to eat & you are feeding them the same meal they just devoured. It's the perfect storm for a feeding frenzy. This is the same concept of the UJSSM pitching into the old trub in the bucket.
KatoFong wrote:So lately there's been a few discussions about EC-1118. Some call it friend, others call it foe. Some people note its fast ferment, while others (myself in particular) say it has a tendency to lag. One source on the parent site recommends it as a good wash yeast, because it ferments out really crisp and clean, while I personally find it tends to be a bit funky when it ferments.
In researching EC-1118, I've found it's a pris de mousse yeast. As near as I can figure, that means it's meant to be added with sugar to an already fermented wine to add carbonation, as you would do in making champagne. Hence the high alcohol tolerance (a low tolerance yeast wouldn't be able to start a good ferment in an already fermented wine). In working with it recently on a mead, I noticed that, when I fermented the primary well under its alcohol tolerance and then added sugar and fruit to it in the secondary, it 1) roared to life in the secondary and 2) fermented out crisper than I had seen it do before. Its ferment also had a better defined end with the yeast settling and the wine clarifying relatively succinctly.
So tonight I'm beginning an experiment. I'm going to start a batch of wine using the following recipe and see what we end up with:
In primary:
25 lbs store-bought white grapes
7 lbs sugar
Water to 3 gallons
10 or so sachets of EC-1118
Some fresh OJ (for fine vegetable matter)
Yeast nutrient
Crush grapes in primary. Invert the sugar by dissolving into 1 gallon of boiling water with a few tsps of citric acid added. Add to primary and top off with remaining water. Rehydrate yeast and stir into the must. Cover with cheesecloth and loose lid and let sit for three days. Aerate regularly.
After three days, strain grape matter from the surface of the must, taking care to press out as much juice as possible. Siphon must into secondary.
In secondary:
Add to must
3 lbs sugar, dissolved into enough water to bring total to five gallons
(potentially) 0ne can 100% grape juice concentrate.
Mix thoroughly into must and afix airlock. Let it ferment out.
Alternately, I may do two secondary additions of sugar to the must, so as to bring the alcohol up gradually. My hope is that the incremental ferment will produce a better "wine" than simply dumping a bunch of sugar and letting the yeast go unsupervised.
EC-1118 is really good for delivering "fruity" characteristics to wine. I would HIGHLY recommend using Tartaric acid for your acid add as lots of nasty bugs will eat Citric and you run the risk of creating off flavors/aromas in your "wine".
For AG I've found that a combo of red-star pasteur champagne and saflager S-23 work well. Science being that the Pasteur is a top fermentor and the safe lager is a bottom fermentor. Saccharomyces cerevisiae and Saccharomyces pastorianus. Some yeast nutrients and DAP are also very good for a healthy ferm. Hope this is useful.
I am an Assistant Winemaker at a winery, we use bayanus yeasts on all our reds and whites. To include EC-1118. It isn't just for the secondary fermentation of sparkling. It is just a very strong, clean, and fast fermenting yeast. As stated, it can also tolerate high alcohol. We have had some wines hit 15.5%, 19% for our port. If you are having problems with a funk stir your ferment once a day. It is likely due to the dead yeast laying on the bottom. As long as you don't let that sit to long and create sulfides, it will blow off with the CO2. The oxygenation from stirring will also speed yeast activity.
MrD, you are correct about using Tartaric for acid additions. Also, when using DAP be very careful about additions. Us only what the east need. More is not better. Any excess nutrients not consumed can really cause some stinky problems. It's also best to add in two stages. About 1/3 to half in the start of fermentation and the rest at about the top of fermentation. We usually try to do the second at about 19 Brix. DAP is yeast junk food, they eat the desert first, they won't eat their veggies.
Ive used it in three runs so far. First was in the watermelon kiwi brandy I just got done running. And some grape wine I just put into the secondary, then in another batch of brandy I mashed yesterday. If the brandy I ran today is any indication, its a pretty good yeast with a good yield.
“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
I pitched EC-1118 onto some grain flavored sugar head after the bakers yeast I pitched first finished up about where I expected it to. It was kind of an experiment to see if I couple boost the EtOH a couple more points with the fairly neutral champagne yeast while still getting the estery flavors of the Fleischman's. It definitely did something, as I saw a second krausen start to form within a day, and it slowly fermented to absolute dryness over the next week or so. We'll see how the ester profile comes out in the drink eventually, but so far I'd call that a qualified success.
The other effect that I saw was much clearer beer than I am used to running, and a more compact yeast cake. When I make whiskey I usually use an all grain mash with a pretty heavy rye component, and Fleischman's yeast. They typically never get close to "clear" and I have accidentally scorched a wash when I goofed up my heat management. This was my first grain flavored sugar head, and still had several pounds of rye in the 6 gallon wash.
Do you guys think that adding EC-1118 after primary fermentation as a standard practice would help my all grain washes to clear better? It seems that whittling down the residual gravity, combined with the high flocculation of this yeast would help things to settle better. Anyone ever tried using EC1118 or other champagne yeast for that? Did you like the results?
Well I just joined this forum as a begining distiller, and one of my
questions was exactly about this specific yeast. I had read about some of
the other yeasts out there for making washes. But since Ive been making
wine for several years, Ive always used EC 1118 for making my country wines
(wines not made from wine grapes)
Was wondering if I could keep using it for mashes and by reading all of the
threads here, I see its quite commonly used. I only use it since I prefer
my wine stronger or dry. It usually never fails me and I get the same
results. Most of time. As a home wine maker and other fruits (with alot of sugar added) it has been my staple of yeast for wines. Thank god its also usable for mash in distilling.
The champagne yeast is very good with fruit ferments. But I doubt you'll be using fruit as the base for your vodka. The EC1118 likes temps a little cooler than traditional ale or bakers yeast. And it ferments slower, although it will finish dry with time.
For your first ferment, however, I recommend following one of the Tried & True recipes, including the recommended yeast protocol. For a vodka (assuming you're a novice at this) I recommend Rad's all bran recipe as it is clean and very punctual to complete, especially if you adhere to the recipe.
And.....the recipe uses simple baker's yeast like you get at the grocery store. (save the champagne yeast for when you have a bit more experience).
ec1118 is what most kit wine's come with standard. This is because it's fairly neutral and robust - ie; less stuck ferments for the wine kit manufacturers. When you get into the craft of winemaking a little deeper you will like to use other yeasties which provide different flavor profiles. I just did a batch of malted barley, apples, apple cider, and honey all together in two 20g brute cans. I used K1V1116 yeast in one and D47 yeast in the other. Both of those are recommended for ciders and meads. The D47 tends to appreciate some nutrient (SNA schedule) to prevent H2S (hydrogen sulfide - rotten egg smell). I will strip each of these ferments and combine low wines for spirit run but appreciate the added complexity by fermenting with different yeasts and blending the product.
I am looking into some different yeasts for my whiskey ferments to do this too where I end up fermenting and running different runs of the same recipe. ie; Us05 has been my go-to for corn and barley mashes so I'll try some diverse ale and lager yeasts - my basement is cold ...
I have had good luck with EC-1118, but have had a couple of failures. I've found it needs yeast nutrients to work with corn or sugar. I use a tablespoon a Citric Acid, a Teaspoon of DSP and Gypsum, and 1/4 teaspoon of Epsom salts for a 5 gallon batch with 8 lbs of sugar.
I used 12 pounds of cracked corn converted with enzymes and the same yeast nutrients. The corn ripped through and was finished in 3 days. Set up the right conditions and it is a very fast, clean yeast. Use a started and there is no lag.
possum wrote:Exactly, but not with grapes, berry fruit.
The red wineberrys and black raspberrys grow around the cemetaries and roadsides in Southern PA. About the last week of june untill mid july the fruit should be ready. I just hope I can get the time to pick them with my summer classes (away from my usual residence by 200miles). If I can get a good pickin' on I will probably freeze 'em untill I can get the yeasties in effect...it will be a little cooler then in september anyway and I should have more time.
When I fed my fruit wines in multiple stages using REDSTAR CHMPAGNE last year the end result was good. My sister liked it very much, but the supply is gone now.
Watch out for the bears their not going to be happy with you taking the berries
...
