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Black Eye wrote:Can we all bring Our easy-up tents and set up booths to have a Proper Distillers Festival and tasting while we're protesting. I'd very much like that
Well,... Ive done 2 hooch tastings so far. And its becoming clear to me why they dont do whiskeyfests like they do beerfests. The first one, some fights broke out,.... with gravity, there was broken glass and foggy memories of any of it the next day. The second one, a really nice meet up with our own Midwest Shinner, ended with me sleeping it off on his couch before getting anywhere near my car. My point is Im thinking by late afternoon the pack of us knuckleheads will paint an image none too compelling to the passersby or lawmakers....
I have been to a few wine fests and thinking what a bunch of drunks when I got there. Of course it only took about 30 more minutes and everyone sobered up. I could see after a couple whiskey festivals the Government would go back to prohibition.
My Grandpa used to say. Don't argue with an idiot, because he will just drag you down to his level then beat you with experience.
He also used to say. I didn't say it was your fault. I just said that I was blaming you.
"Taste from a selection of 300 whiskies - WhiskyFest San Francisco will feature over 300 whiskies from around the world. This is your chance to.... (edit) drink yourself fu*kin blind and sleep on the fine imported italian marble lining the San Francisco Marriots dignified grand ballroom.
Yeah, that sounds bout right Jimbo. Yesterday morning (the day after our meet-up/tasting) my fiancee reminded me that is why at fancy wine tastings you are supposed to spit the booze out after tasting and not swallow it. I couldn't bring myself to do that, especially not with some fine homemade likker like your brandy and whisky. Good times though for sure, wish we could have a much bigger get-together with more of our members. Minus the Hawks losing a finals playoff game that is...
Black Eye wrote:Can we all bring Our easy-up tents and set up booths to have a Proper Distillers Festival and tasting while we're protesting. I'd very much like that
My mother always told me it was not polite to spit in public..... So, I can't possibly be spitting out spirits.... frankly I'm the douche at the wine tastings that gulps it. Last Wine tasting I was invited to, I was shunned cause I showed up in a Hawiian Shirt.
I think it would be pretty cool to meet some fellow members a in distilling event.
Furthermore all you hawks fans can come over and watch game 4. I'll even let you drink my booze. But it will be in enemy territory
Last edited by Black Eye on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Only way to drink all day... is to start in the morning
Jimbo, you must not get it . We need to be scared and angry and oh so serious, especially when we're working through a conversation with about as much new information as my dog gets after eating my newspaper.
Interesting. I'm digging through regulations and I can't seem to find anything like that either. That said, aren't most businesses expected to keep their records for tax purposes etc for similar length of time?
Okay, I'm totally ready to help out however I can. Money, signatures, spreading info, whatever it takes. The problem is that I just don't think there are enough people involved. The only realistic LIVE petition right now is this one:
I've already signed it. I tried getting a fuel producers permit, but they denied my application because I don't have a out-building. At that point I took the "fuck it, come and get me" approach. The biggest exposure for me is this thread. I'm not very scared of getting busted. Even if I do, I'll never quit. These ideas of having tastings and sharing information and designs and recipes openly without fear of getting arrested are pipe dreams. I desperately want them to be real. I enjoy this hobby by myself and with 2 other people, but the only reason they do it is because I've been building and buying stills and pouring over information for years. They come over to help me lift buckets and do runs. It's a damn shame I can't go to a function with the rest of you and talk about our hobby and share our spirits. Until I found this forum I though I was a fish in an empty sea experimenting with ideas my grandfather told me about. Then I realized there are lots of people who know WAY more than I do. It was like Christmas for me. Why does the petition I listed above only have 274 signatures? Why isn't this petition listed on every website that sells us products for our hobby? Even more important: What more can I do?!? Where or to whom can I donate my money? How can we get in with a senator or congressperson? If someone knows of a politician who could help our cause, who are they? I'll start sending letters right now. I'll print out flyers and put them in public places... or bring them to distilleries and breweries for other people to see. But, like I said... the 2 other people I distill with are essentially students to me. I can't even have a face to face conversation with another person who has distilled a spirit, because I don't know anyone who has in real life. Maybe I can start a facebook page or something. Anyone have any solid ideas? Now is the time and I wanna help BAD!
Life member, representative, and proud supporter of the Hobby Distiller's Association.
ThrownOlive wrote:Interesting. I'm digging through regulations and I can't seem to find anything like that either. That said, aren't most businesses expected to keep their records for tax purposes etc for similar length of time?
Tax purposes yes, I think it's 7 years. But there is no reason to ask for any previous customers data. Why not 5 years or 10 or all of them? Where is this authority to do so?
RandyMarshCT wrote:Okay, I'm totally ready to help out however I can. Money, signatures, spreading info, whatever it takes. The problem is that I just don't think there are enough people involved. The only realistic LIVE petition right now is this one:
Not sure if this is the regulation you guys are looking for..
"Under regulations in part 29 of title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, TTB has the right to require manufacturers of stills to give us the name and address of each customer. If we choose to impose this requirement, we inform the manufacturer of the stills by letter." -from http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/faq.shtml
Yes, that is the code, here is the actual address containing everything. In general, it states when the still or apparatus is to leave the store, and it's intended purpose must be stated, stamped with a name and number, and the manufacture is suppose to give notice to TTB. Well those stills or parts already left. and they did not give notice because the TTB never asked, until now. To me that means everything forward. Is there a lawyer in the house? btw, clawhammer is having one study the code.
A list of homebrew clubs can be found here. it's a lot of work but all of them should get an email with the petition site. http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/p ... ind-a-club" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I'm digging through regulations and I can't seem to find anything like that either.
It falls under the inspection of required record keeping, not to be confused with the "Notice requirement (27 CFR 29.47)."
27 CFR 29.59 - Records. (emphasis added)
A copy of each notice of manufacture, or set up, of still required under the provisions of § 29.47, or § 29.49, shall be maintained, in chronological order, by the manufacturer at the premises where the still or distilling apparatus is manufactured. In addition, each manufacturer or vendor of stills shall maintain at their premises a record showing all stills and distilling apparatus (including those to be used for purposes other than distilling) manufactured, received, removed, or otherwise disposed of. The record will also show the name and address of the purchaser and the purpose for which each apparatus is to be used. Any commercial document on which all the required information has been recorded may be used for the record. The records will be kept available for a period of three years for inspection by appropriate TTB officers.
If a company isn't required to be specifically licensed by the TTB to manufacture stills then they are not under legal contract with the TTB and as such are not required to give them anything... There's some wiggle room in the legalese there...
Ok,, back on topic,,kinda. been keepin up with this all the while. my take,,n that's worth just what you paid for it.
i remember back in the 70's when cb radio was first becomin popular,,,almost everybody got a FCC license. iirc,, it was about 8 or 9 pages ,, n maybe $50 or so.then, all of a sudden it went viral,,,everybody had 5 or 6 radios,,,linear amps,, overheight towers,,you name it.dont remember anyone gettin busted except if they constantly messed up the neighbors tv,, or was really vulgar or sch. the FCC gave up tryin to police it at all.
It could be,,,just maybe could be the same thing's fixin to happen to this hobby.the available resources to combat us are about to be overwhelmed by sheer ###,, n the feds are just lookin to see how bad they're outnumbered. my guess is that way more folks got homemade outfits than store bought,, n unka sammy knows that ,, so the odds are even greater in our favor.
just my 2 cents worth
Even One Sackett Is Quite A Few
World Champion Wildcat Sorter 1997,1998,2005,2006,2007
Remember the three 2s of stillin,,,,Too much can go Too wrong Too quick
The apparatus is supposed to be numbered and the manufacture was supposed to ask what the intended purpose was. Any still not used for alcohol distillation does not need to be registered.
Black Eye wrote:My mother always told me it was not polite to spit in public..... So, I can't possibly be spitting out spirits.... frankly I'm the douche at the wine tastings that gulps it. Last Wine tasting I was invited to, I was shunned cause I showed up in a Hawiian Shirt.
To make my laughter complete, please tell me that you were wearing flip-flops.
280 signatures to date. 4 today from my group and I just started asking. This isn't good enough. We have to get homebrewers to sign up, http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/p ... ind-a-club" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow , friends, relatives, co-workers, hell ex wives, just kidding about them. Who is gonna help? here is the petition site again.
After visiting Milehigh Distilling's website to get more supplies, I discovered that there's a link to a petition to legalize home distilling. There was also a video explaining why it should be legalized. I am a legal moonshiner. I can legally make moonshine for fuel purposes only. The reason I didn't go for liquor was because I can't afford the costs of all the nessecary red tape that's involved. Here's the link to the video:
This was more like a documentary than a promotional video. I also agree that the current laws involved with distilling are outdated. I mean we're dealing with and using laws that go all the way back to George Washington and Alexander Hamilton's day, and alot of the laws used in state and federal courts across the country were written during Prohibition back in the 1920's are being used to prosecute people that got caught. Yet to make beer or wine you can get started today and there's no licensing required. In fact you can walk into any Sear's store in the appliance section, and buy a Mr. Beer brewing kit. That is not fair to us at all. I went through alot of red tape just to get a license to distill alcohol for fuel purposes only. It's 10 times worse if you're wanting to make liquor. Here's the link to the petiton:
Finally. Some interest in trying to legalize it! I agree that the homebrew community will be a huge asset. Too bad the biggest homebrew site isn't willing to even allow a link to the petition. Maybe if enough people ask?
. We need to be scared and angry and oh so serious, especially when we're working through a conversation with about as much new information as my dog gets after eating my newspaper. 
There's some wiggle room in the legalese there... 
