Shinners Flute build.

[JethroBodine]

Gotta say, Spooky, I'm with you. If this turns out to be just the way it is for the flute design, I won't feel like that makes it a flawed system. Despite my soldering issues right now, this is the funnest build yet, for me. I can't wait to fire this sucker!

[Mr.Spooky]

hell no it aint flawed,,,,, its tried and true!

[Kentucky shinner]

Gotta say, Spooky, I'm with you. If this turns out to be just the way it is for the flute design, I won't feel like that makes it a flawed system. Despite my soldering issues right now, this is the funnest build yet, for me. I can't wait to fire this sucker!

You gonna love the girl I can tell you that...

[JethroBodine]

rockchucker22 said

Ah me too....

Ah, me three...

[kiwistiller]

bahahahahah spooky gets LW's punctuation when drunk. Awesome

[Kentucky shinner]

hell no it aint flawed,,,,, its tried and true!

agree 120%

[rad14701]

I have been following this discussion with interest...

At this point it should be evident why I mentioned adjustable perforated plates... Using them, or at least as the bottom plate, would help answer this perplexing phenomenon of no liquid buildup on the bottom plate...

Another item that would help is having a sight glass "below" the bottom plate... Is liquid really returning to the boiler or is the entire still reaching a suspended animation state of equilibrium...???

[Samohon]

Nice sight glasses Joe... Should'nt be long before we have another piece of the jigsaw in our hands...

Could it be an evaporation issue with the bottom plate..?
If I'm right then Kentucky is throwing a lot more heat at the flute than he did with the Bok, this got me thinking that, as the distillate falls through the downcomers, the temps associated within the column would cause the vapor pressure to draw not only the vapors through the perforations on the plates but temps to rise significantly as well... If this is the case, would the bottom plate not be hotter than the rest causing increased evaporation at that level...?

I'am trying to run a model through Aspen (Engineering software) to effect this problem, given KS's dimentions on the flute...

Then again, I may be way off base and it may even have been discussed before...But I'm sure it has'nt...

This thread just gets better and better...

[Kentucky shinner]

I think that may be exactly what is happening Sam..

[rednose]

Bubbling first plate

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p6862240

[Samohon]

Well, Joes bottom plate is certainly bubbling...

Nice sight glass Joe...

[Kentucky shinner]

nuttin like proving your theory.. Thanks for the trouble..
KS

[Samohon]

nuttin like proving your theory.. Thanks for the trouble..
KS

Yeah KS, kinda knocks my 2 cent theory out the window too bro...
Need to have a re-think on this, its prolly starin us in the face, as most things usually do ...

[Mr.Spooky]

so what gives????? why is this not working with the plates , and is with the caps?????
spooky

[JethroBodine]

Because, as Joe has said right along, it doesn't matter what happens in abubble plate, thre is no way for the liquid to fall through the plate. The perforated plate needs vapor pressure to suspend the liquid. So as the alcohol level depletes, the liquid gets heaver and cannot be suspended by the vapor. Collapsed plate. I think OD hit it on the head.

[LWTCS]

Because, as Joe has said right along, it doesn't matter what happens in abubble plate, thre is no way for the liquid to fall through the plate. The perforated plate needs vapor pressure to suspend the liquid. So as the alcohol level depletes, the liquid gets heaver and cannot be suspended by the vapor. Collapsed plate. I think OD hit it on the head.
Because, as Joe has said right along, it doesn't matter what happens in abubble plate, thre is no way for the liquid to fall through the plate. The perforated plate needs vapor pressure to suspend the liquid. So as the alcohol level depletes, the liquid gets heaver and cannot be suspended by the vapor. Collapsed plate. I think OD hit it on the head.

So it's either a bubble first plate or still need to ( for our edification ) remidy the perferated plate.

[kiwistiller]

more heat.

[JethroBodine]

more heat.

I agree. Probably smaller holes, same total area would help, but not necessary.

Larry- the perforated plates would continue to collapse as the density raised and alcohol was depleted. Either more heat is going to have to be applied as the plates try to collapse, run as is going now and use the collapsing plates as a guide for cuts, or try hole sizing and area testing. I could be wrong again, but this seems to make sense to me. Seems to me I was using heat to regulate takeoff and cooling to regulate proof on my CM. Of course that was packed column with theoretical plates, not the real deal. Seems that real plates give a more stable takeoff proof.

[rednose]

more heat.

I agree. Probably smaller holes, same total area would help, but not necessary.

Smaller holes (max 2mm), less area, that would do the job I guess.

Or use copper rivets as valves in the actual holes.

[loneswinger]

more heat.

I agree. Probably smaller holes, same total area would help, but not necessary.

Smaller holes (max 2mm), less area, that would do the job I guess.

Or use copper rivets as valves in the actual holes.

Agree, and Agree. The rivets might work well actually.

Thinking about this problem for about a week now has left me with only this one realistic possibility. Also, given the variable still charges and heat and run duration and all of those variables. A bubble plate would be the more flexible plated column for the Hobby distiller. Despite the increased complexity it might be worth the trouble in the long run.

-Loneswinger

[casamayor]

Hello Rednose, i'm located in the caribean( Guadeloupe) all the stuffs making RUM are continuous still generally they use 15 perforated plate for the stripping portion and 5 to 8 bubble plate for the rectifying section, they never,never use perforated plate for the rectifyng section, the ''Rolls Roice" is a complete bubble plate
Cheers

[rednose]

Thanks for outlining that again casamayor

I mentioned once that perforated stills are mainly used in continious operation, the situation (liquid flow, heat etc.) is always the same and therefor they are working well as such.

In batch operation the situation changes with more or less alc content, cooling water flow in the dephlagmator etc.

The liquid bath in a bubble cap plate gives you a certain buffer and don't act directly when heat or whatever changes.

It takes more than 15 minutes to empty my bubble plate if you suspend the heat or dephlagmator cooling and that is so as I have an intentional very small leak in each plate so that the liquid drains and don't start to smell, mold till the next batch.

Joe

[casamayor]

Thanks for the input Rednose, in my side i use a homemade potstill with one bubble plate and one cap quite large 7 centimeter, on the top a ''lentille" as deplehmator, with 10% wash i got a heart at mean a litte bit over 80%, i guess that the use of these single plate give a lot of flavour (making rum)!

Casamayor

[rednose]

Thanks for the input Rednose, in my side i use a homemade potstill with one bubble plate and one cap quite large 7 centimeter, on the top a ''lentille" as deplehmator, with 10% wash i got a heart at mean a litte bit over 80%, i guess that the use of these single plate give a lot of flavour (making rum)!

Casamayor

Sounds great for a rum still casamayor.

I had in the past the idea to make a 4" vodka still with one only big sized cap but now as things are looking pretty well I have to think in bigger dimensions and will go for a multiple bubble cap 8 incher.

The lentille dephlagmator is used here a lot for Rhum Agricole in the fields but yours sounds to work better than the local ones with 80% hearts, they can't get higher than max 65%.

Would be nice to see a pic of your still.

Joe

[casamayor]

Unfortunately i have no pics of my stuff, i will try to put some pics on the nex run!
Cheers

[Kentucky shinner]

Hello Rednose, i'm located in the caribean( Guadeloupe) all the stuffs making RUM are continuous still generally they use 15 perforated plate for the stripping portion and 5 to 8 bubble plate for the rectifying section, they never,never use perforated plate for the rectifyng section, the ''Rolls Roice" is a complete bubble plate
Cheers

I bet this is why OD and myself are amazed at how much flavor these perforated plate stills carry over at the speed we can run. . I think that just proved to me I want to keep my perforated plates for whiskey making. The bubble cap design is much more suited for Vodkas and gin perhaps.
Spooky will have the best of both worlds with his plates being changeable.
Thanks for this information casamayor.
KS

[rednose]

The bubble cap design is much more suited for Vodkas and gin perhaps.
KS

What of the quoted text makes you think this?

What CM said is that they use continious perforated stills for stripping and bubbled stills for spirit runs.

Can you link me to any commercial batch flavor still with perforated sieves?

[loneswinger]

Can you link me to any commercial batch flavor still with perforated sieves?

I don't think you are going to find them, and I think you know the reason. The perforated plates will not handle the changing ABV of the charge very well.

I have a question for you rednose, how did you make your bubble plates leak so that you can drain the column while not in use?

-Loneswinger

[Samohon]

I think in another build Joe inverted the column if I remember right LoneSwinger...
Matbe I'm confusing him with another member but he'll clarify it for us...

[rednose]

I have a question for you rednose, how did you make your bubble plates leak so that you can drain the column while not in use?

-Loneswinger

It has a small 1.00 mm hole near the center of the plate, enough to drain but small enough not to act as a mayor vapor pass.

Hope that nobody comes now and says that I have perforated plates.

BTW: it doesn't leak while running, only if I shut the heat off.
Can't see neither if it bubbles through that hole.