uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Hack]

I ran off a seventh generation batch of this last winter, and it still tastes harsh to me. Seems to have a real bite. I know it's something I'm doing, or not, but I'm not sure what it is. Is it necessary to let this clear before distilling it? I think the main trouble wih all my runs of anything may be that I have not allowed enough time to let it clear.

Any ideas?
It gets better with age on wood chips, but still harsh at 40%.

I'm running generation 4 now, and I share your sentiments. I haven't tasted anything worth aging yet. I can't seem to separate the nasty flavors from the corn flavor. Both are clearly there.
Clearly this recipe works for a lot of people, but I just can't seem to get it down. It's a very different taste than all-grain whiskey. How much of a flavor compromise do we expect here?

--KD

In my experience harshness can come from too much heads, and nasty flavors can come from too much tails. There are differing opinions on this, but it seems to me that allowing it to clear does contribute to a smoother spirit. How you prepare your oak for aging and how much you use makes a difference, I prefer my oak toasted not charred and use two 3/4" cubes per quart. Lastly, letting it age makes a big difference. Just a week or two can make a big difference and after three months or so it's starting to get good. Aging longer makes it better. There's a reason the distilleries age their hooch for years, though the longest I've made it with UJSM is about three monthes before I start nipping at it.

[scarecrow]

ct1870,
I was not aware that you could get an accurate SG with that much solids floating in your wash.
I just put down my 3rd gen and it told me I had 16% ABV in the wash. This is nonsense, because I can only have 10% max from my calculations.

Also, I noticed that the distillate on your parrot has a convex (reverse) meniscus. Is this giving you a correct reading? Have you checked it with a concave meniscus? Are they both the same reading?

Does your wash clear OK? I can never get mine clear, it's always milky.

But, goddam, it tastes good. And this is only the 2nd gen stuff. This stuff must be ambrosia somewhere down the track.

Sorry about all the questions, but when you post all those nice piccies, the mind goes into overdrive.

My current problem is the amount of liquid left in the fermenter. I do a 17.5 litre batch and I only get 12.5 litres out to distill. The rest is in the corn.

Does anyone put their grain in a dilly bag and squeeze it out before they rack it?

So many questions.

scarecrow

[Dnderhead]

If your doing a UJSSM type of ferment do not worry about what is left in fermenter as you will git it back the next time.
if your doing cooked mash where your not reusing the grain there is a few tricks from pressing to sparging.

[Hack]

scarecrow, on my last batch I was curious about how much mash I was leaving behind in the grains so instead of siphoning off the top like I normally do I drained the whole thing. I didn't try squeezing out the grains at all. The difference in the amount I got didn't really justify the hassle. It wasn't that much different than I normally get. I'm going back to just siphoning off the top. Like dnderhead says, over the generations you'll get it.

[scarecrow]

I'm getting so discouraged with this sour-mashing. If it wasn't for the great tasting corn likker, I wouldn't bother.

I had to fiddle with the last batch just to get it to work again. I am now having the same problem except worse.
It's been 2 days and it only burps once every 10 mins.
I always have to add heaps of bicarb because the pH drops right off the bottom of the gauge.
I pulled heaps of spent corn out this batch as well.
I usually add 5 litres of backset. This time I only added 3 litres. This stuff hasn't got a chance of getting going. The backset is 3.1 and the dunder is under 3.0.
And I think my yeast doesn't like temps below 24C (75F), because it just stalls. Unfortunately, the batch drops to about 22C during the night. Fortunately, this was the last of the fresh yeast. I have changed over to Lowans Dried Yeast because it keeps longer.
I can get some distillers yeast at the bulk food store, but it's expensive ($17/kg). Would it help any to try this yeast?

I've got some cracked corn left, so I might try a new recipe and figure out a different technique to make this stuff. It's just not working the way I do it now.

If you have any secrets to make this stuff, whisper it to me so no one else can hear

scarecrow

[Dnderhead]

""I can get some distillers yeast at the bulk food store, but it's expensive ""
is this distillers yeast or "brewers" yeast witch is dead and used as a food supplement.

[Barney Fife]

It's been 2 days and it only burps once every 10 mins.

Are you sure it's not done? It's been nearly a year since my last UJSM runs, but mine would be done and ready in 2-3 days per batch. At firsdt it would catch me off guard and I'd think she stalled, but when checked, damn thing was done! It never went wild and tried to spill or rumble like crazy or anything, but like clockwork, 2-3 days, and it was ready.

If you can find some, and it should be easy, try some ale yeast from any brew shop; it likes the temperature range you're working in, and is available in little packets for a dollar or so.

[scarecrow]

""I can get some distillers yeast at the bulk food store, but it's expensive ""
is this distillers yeast or "brewers" yeast witch is dead and used as a food supplement.

I've just checked my notes of suppliers. It's called Brewers Yeast. It's a dark brown powder. It looks identical to the stuff down at the feed store. And it's in amongst the feed suppliment section so I am gathering it's the dead yeast.
You just saved me $17.00. Thanks.

Are you sure it's not done?

Positive.
I watch all my batches like a mother hen so I can keep accurate records of times and temps etc.
This is the 3rd gen of my SM and it never got off the ground.
Still hasn't improved today.

I'm going to throw in some dried yeast. 25g did the trick last time.
The original yeast to start the process was a fresh, compressed bakers yeast.

If I can get a spare bucket, I might start from scratch with a different recipe.

Edited: Added a tablespoon of dried yeast and gave it a good belt with the mechanical stirrer to aerate it. Now it's cookin'.

scarecrow

[ct1870]

I was not aware that you could get an accurate SG with that much solids floating in your wash.
I just put down my 3rd gen and it told me I had 16% ABV in the wash. This is nonsense, because I can only have 10% max from my calculations.

hey scarecrow. This was the OG of the first wash. The sugar had been diluted in the water and the corn had just been added. the kernals were floating on the top and not yet effected the dendity of the water. I know that with a fruit mash it is dificult to get an accurate reading and with the ujsm after you add the backset it is hard to get an accurate reading. So to sum it up Hell If I Know.

I noticed that the distillate on your parrot has a convex (reverse) meniscus. Is this giving you a correct reading? Have you checked it with a concave meniscus? Are they both the same reading?

Yes, yes and yes. I have 2 alcoholmeters and i did check each collection to compare with what the parrot alcoholmeter was reading. The flow of the distillant would affect the reading but just getting a feel of how it would work. I just built it while i was doing my stripping run.

Does your wash clear OK? I can never get mine clear, it's always milky

as far as a clear liquid no I take all the spent corn off the top. The pics are as clear as it got. All of the washes were not quite milky but a yellowish tent to them, which i am assumming is normal. now if i got deep into the bottom of the wash it would come over a milky look but tried to stay out of the bottom as much as possible.

[rad14701]

That floating corn IS effecting the SG of your mash... Anything floating in or on top of your mash can skew SG readings...

[ct1870]

Hey rad is that goog bad or indifferent. Is the reading on the hydro correct or incorrect?

[rad14701]

Hey rad is that goog bad or indifferent. Is the reading on the hydro correct or incorrect?

Corn floating on top of your mash should give an artificially high SG, as would excessive solids in the mash... A filtered sample would provide a more accurate reading...

[Beerswimmer]

I just made my first batch of this and used Fleishmans yeast. Will this cause any negative taste that brewers yeast won't?

Can't wait to get a few generations in

[Dnderhead]

many use "bakers" yeast .I usually use ale yeast then keep reusing for whatever grain I ferment.

[Beerswimmer]

Thanks! It's already fermenting! I just don't want to missing an important "bourbon" flavor by using the wrong yeast.

[plonker]

Started a new batch of UJSSM after having had some success with earlier ones. Trouble is this one got infected with lacto bacteria. It has become a REAL sour mash. I run it off it the still (smelt and tasted pretty sour) and boiled the mash to kill the bacteria.

Is it worth trying to keep any of this? either the spirits or the mash?

I have used lacto before to make some types of beers, so thought I had better ask if there was a use for it before dumping it...

[Hawke]

Use the soured corn to do a real all grain mash?
Think I have the same going on now.
I started a new batch a few weeks ago, racked the finished wash into a carboy and added the water to keep the corn covered. Life got in the way, so was not able to do a run right away. Decided to just add more sugar and water, (no backset), when I opened the fermenter, it was boiling harder than I've ever seen in a UJ. Doesn't have a bad smell to it though.

[plonker]

Hey Hawke, yeah, I tossed some sugar, grain and yeast in it after boiling everything, and its fermenting so I guess I will run it through when finished and see how it turns out..

Does yours taste real sour, a bit yogurt-like.... don't know how else to describe it.. *grin*

[Hawke]

Haven't tasted it. I just have never seen one fermenting between generations. (First gen finished around .990, so I know there wasn't enough sugar left for that type of activity.)

[Barney Fife]

Sounds like your corn is converting on its own. You may have stumbled upon something for us, here! Think back, and tell us what ALL you had in there.

[Hawke]

Pretty standard,
10 pounds corn
15 pounds sugar
Water added to an SG of 1.070
1/8 cup Distillers yeast (No A/G)
And a few little black bugs.

[plonker]

I wonder if this is what has happened to your wash http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4&start=45

its definately what happend to mine. Im just not sure why you do the lactic fermentation here. It is to start off a sour mash? or improve your conversion?
DO you only do it for the first one?

[Hawke]

Well, in my case, if it is lacto, it was unintended.
The bugs may have been carrying the lacto bacteria.

[kiwistiller]

I took a bottle of UJSM (corn+rye+barley) to my favourite brew shop today. the owner (a long time drinker of essences and such) tried a bit, and got a far away look in his eyes, muttering "shit, thats smoooth"... Wonder if he'll turn up around these parts soon

[HookLine]

Man, I wish I could do that here.

[kiwistiller]

Well, you're the one who doesn't want to live in a temperate zone

[olddog]

You mean cold

[kiwistiller]

You mean cold

haha If I can ski on the tops and swim on the beach 90mins later, I'd say its just about right moving north soon though. goodbye skiing

[HookLine]

Well, you're the one who doesn't want to live in a temperate zone

So if I move to southern Australia, will it be legal there?

[kiwistiller]

Absolutely, we call it western New Zealand. Don't ask the people that live there though, they'll just lie about it. you can force the truth out of them with this map