Jimbo's Electric Conversion

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I got a little fancy on mine and used this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YY1KOHA
I connect the voltage sense leads before the SSVR and put the current transformer on one of the hots after the SSVR. It works well and is fairly cheap.

[masonsjax]

I have an analog voltmeter between the SSR and element on one of my controllers. It works great. I think the problem with digital meters in this application is their lower voltage rating. It's usually 80-300v, so when you dial down below 80v, it fries something. The analog meter are rated 0-300v, so they work fine.

I'm having trouble finding an analog meter that works on my SCR based controller. I wanted one a little larger than my first, so now I have a large hole cut in my box, but I just returned the 3rd meter from the 3rd vendor that were all DOA.

[Gundar]

Masonsjax wrote:
I have an analog voltmeter between the SSR and element on one of my controllers. It works great. I think the problem with digital meters in this application is their lower voltage rating. It's usually 80-300v, so when you dial down below 80v, it fries something. The analog meter are rated 0-300v, so they work fine.

Thanks Masonsjax! That's what I wanted to hear.

[gflower1]

I have an analog voltmeter between the SSR and element on one of my controllers. It works great. I think the problem with digital meters in this application is their lower voltage rating. It's usually 80-300v, so when you dial down below 80v, it fries something. The analog meter are rated 0-300v, so they work fine.

I'm having trouble finding an analog meter that works on my SCR based controller. I wanted one a little larger than my first, so now I have a large hole cut in my box, but I just returned the 3rd meter from the 3rd vendor that were all DOA.

How often do you drop it below 80v?

[masonsjax]

I've never tried a digital meter, but the way I run my controller, I always dial the knob to zero before unplugging, or if I get a puke. Do you never turn your knob down below a certain point? If not, you might be OK with a digital voltmeter.

[gflower1]

I always turn all my (imaginary) knobs to 11!
Still gathering parts. Not sure if it's worth cutting a giant hole for a shiny panel that's gonna blow

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I've never tried a digital meter, but the way I run my controller, I always dial the knob to zero before unplugging, or if I get a puke. Do you never turn your knob down below a certain point? If not, you might be OK with a digital voltmeter.

A digital voltmeter is really only good to measure the incoming voltage (120/240) and an ammeter will tell you what power you are putting into the pot. I found that this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YY1KOHA is cheap and works well. You can see my version at http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7398427 . Perhaps not the best, but it serves me well.

[gflower1]

That's the one I've got on order RHB. In part as a result of your post and others.. Have you had any problems with yours?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

That's the one I've got on order RHB. In part as a result of your post and others.. Have you had any problems with yours?

'No problems with mine. You will notice in my post that I referenced that without external cooing it works well, YMMV. Just don't forget to add thermal grease between the SSVR and the heat sink.

[rad14701]

I've never tried a digital meter, but the way I run my controller, I always dial the knob to zero before unplugging, or if I get a puke. Do you never turn your knob down below a certain point? If not, you might be OK with a digital voltmeter.

A digital voltmeter is really only good to measure the incoming voltage (120/240) and an ammeter will tell you what power you are putting into the pot. I found that this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YY1KOHA is cheap and works well. You can see my version at http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7398427 . Perhaps not the best, but it serves me well.

Interesting perspective but when I measure controller voltage I get a reading of however much voltage is flowing, not line voltage... This makes it possible to multiply Volts times Amperage to determine Wattage... How did you come up with your personal opinion because mine is based on fact...???

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I've never tried a digital meter, but the way I run my controller, I always dial the knob to zero before unplugging, or if I get a puke. Do you never turn your knob down below a certain point? If not, you might be OK with a digital voltmeter.

A digital voltmeter is really only good to measure the incoming voltage (120/240) and an ammeter will tell you what power you are putting into the pot. I found that this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YY1KOHA is cheap and works well. You can see my version at http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7398427 . Perhaps not the best, but it serves me well.

Interesting perspective but when I measure controller voltage I get a reading of however much voltage is flowing, not line voltage... This makes it possible to multiply Volts times Amperage to determine Wattage... How did you come up with your personal opinion because mine is based on fact...???

Unless your voltmeter is a true RMS meter, it will lie to you about non-sinusoidal waveforms. Even the most common analog movement (D'Arsonval) is an averaging type and will not read RMS except for a sinusoidal waveform which it has been corrected for. If you don't care about the inaccuracy, I don't care either. If you just want a repeatable reading, averaging meters are ok.

[rad14701]

<SNIP>
Interesting perspective but when I measure controller voltage I get a reading of however much voltage is flowing, not line voltage... This makes it possible to multiply Volts times Amperage to determine Wattage... How did you come up with your personal opinion because mine is based on fact...???

Unless your voltmeter is a true RMS meter, it will lie to you about non-sinusoidal waveforms. Even the most common analog movement (D'Arsonval) is an averaging type and will not read RMS except for a sinusoidal waveform which it has been corrected for. If you don't care about the inaccuracy, I don't care either. If you just want a repeatable reading, averaging meters are ok.

Very true... Repeat-ability being the most important aspect here... I never run with volt or amp meters during runs, only during controller testing... I turn the knob one way and the power goes up, the other way and it goes down... Repeat-ability is accomplished by remembering knob positions...

[gflower1]

Would an on/off switch need to carry the full 23 amps on a 5500w element?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Would an on/off switch need to carry the full 23 amps on a 5500w element?

Depends on how it's wired. If the system is just a plug, cord, switch and element, then why yes of course. If you want to turn off an SSVR or SSR system, you can put a small switch in series with one of the control lines and that will be ON(controlled) or OFF.

[Snackson]

Would an on/off switch need to carry the full 23 amps on a 5500w element?

Depends on how it's wired. If the system is just a plug, cord, switch and element, then why yes of course. If you want to turn off an SSVR or SSR system, you can put a small switch in series with one of the control lines and that will be ON(controlled) or OFF.

+1.
Or use a switch and a 30a 2 pole contactor. Auberins.com makes nice one. I've used contactors before by prefer to use a double pole 30a switch like these for their ease and price, http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-3032-2W-T ... ouble+pole" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Would an on/off switch need to carry the full 23 amps on a 5500w element?

Depends on how it's wired. If the system is just a plug, cord, switch and element, then why yes of course. If you want to turn off an SSVR or SSR system, you can put a small switch in series with one of the control lines and that will be ON(controlled) or OFF.

+1.
Or use a switch and a 30a 2 pole contactor. Auberins.com makes nice one. I've used contactors before by prefer to use these for their ease and price, http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-3032-2W-T ... ouble+pole" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Contactors work well, you only NEED 1 pole, but 2 is ok. Also AC triggered SSRs work well also. Omega (among others) makes them. http://www.omega.com/pptst/SSRL240_660.html Scroll down and there is a list of them and their specs. They also make 3 phase versions also. I've used their single and 3 phase SSRs. They seem to be quite reliable.

[Swedish Pride]

Would an on/off switch need to carry the full 23 amps on a 5500w element?

I have a 45A on/off switch.
That's what s the standard for the stove that has 30A so was easy to source and cheep.

[gflower1]

Thanks for all the input fellas.

If you want to turn off an SSVR or SSR system, you can put a small switch in series with one of the control lines and that will be ON(controlled) or OFF.

I think this is what I'm aiming for. I've ordered the SSR and want to keep the switch small to fit in the faceplate of my box.

[rad14701]

Would an on/off switch need to carry the full 23 amps on a 5500w element?

Depends on how it's wired. If the system is just a plug, cord, switch and element, then why yes of course. If you want to turn off an SSVR or SSR system, you can put a small switch in series with one of the control lines and that will be ON(controlled) or OFF.

+1.
Or use a switch and a 30a 2 pole contactor. Auberins.com makes nice one. I've used contactors before by prefer to use these for their ease and price, http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-3032-2W-T ... ouble+pole" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Contactors work well, you only NEED 1 pole, but 2 is ok. Also AC triggered SSRs work well also. Omega (among others) makes them. http://www.omega.com/pptst/SSRL240_660.html Scroll down and there is a list of them and their specs. They also make 3 phase versions also. I've used their single and 3 phase SSRs. They seem to be quite reliable.

For 220V, which has two hots, a two pole switch would be a safer option... With a single pole switch the controller is still always hot...

[RedwoodHillBilly]

For 220V, which has two hots, a two pole switch would be a safer option... With a single pole switch the controller is still always hot...

True that one side of the element would be hot, but if that is a real concern your system has other problems, considering that when running both sides of the element are hot to PE and neutral. Shouldn't be a problem if you're just trying to turn the element power on/off. On the other hand if you are trying to implement an EMO circuit, you're right and you should cut both L1 and L2.

[jdetechguy]

I got a little fancy on mine and used this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YY1KOHA
I connect the voltage sense leads before the SSVR and put the current transformer on one of the hots after the SSVR. It works well and is fairly cheap.

RHB, I like this device and plan to get one. I have one question on the wiring. The link shows two lines to the load, a red and black. But they are labeled as N and L. Are these two hot 120 lines to make 240 or are they one 120, plus neutral to complete a 120 circuit?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I got a little fancy on mine and used this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YY1KOHA
I connect the voltage sense leads before the SSVR and put the current transformer on one of the hots after the SSVR. It works well and is fairly cheap.

RHB, I like this device and plan to get one. I have one question on the wiring. The link shows two lines to the load, a red and black. But they are labeled as N and L. Are these two hot 120 lines to make 240 or are they one 120, plus neutral to complete a 120 circuit?

I run 240V i.e. two hots L1 and L2. You could use 120v, L1 and neutral. It depends what your setup is. If possible, I would suggest 240V for more available power.

[jdetechguy]

Thanks RHB. I am going 240. I hope to finish my controller on Saturday. Then I can cross my fingers and hope I don't burn down the house.

[Jimbo]

Triple check all your connections. Look for stray strands of wire sticking out of all terminal blocks and connections that could short against something. Make sure all exposed metal parts are grounded (keg/pot, metal boxes etc)

[jdetechguy]

Triple check all your connections. Look for stray strands of wire sticking out of all terminal blocks and connections that could short against something. Make sure all exposed metal parts are grounded (keg/pot, metal boxes etc)

I will do that. Mine will be similar to the original, except the fan is built in to my scr.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Triple check all your connections. Look for stray strands of wire sticking out of all terminal blocks and connections that could short against something. Make sure all exposed metal parts are grounded (keg/pot, metal boxes etc)

+1
Remember that neatness counts. I hope all goes well and the test is boring/uneventful.

[jdetechguy]

I am starting my controller build today. Jimbo, your first pass at adding a voltmeter has the connections after the SCR. I just want to double check: Should I wire my voltmeter before the SCR?

[jdetechguy]

I have another question if I add an ammeter, do I run both hots through the donut or just 1? I could use an electrical explanation too.

[Jimbo]

Just 1.

They will cancel each other out if you run both though.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I am starting my controller build today. Jimbo, your first pass at adding a voltmeter has the connections after the SCR. I just want to double check: Should I wire my voltmeter before the SCR?

FWIW, here is my build.

The voltage sense is before the SSVR and the current transformer is on one leg after the SSVR. Hope that this helps.

RHB