Heating Element Control

[duracell]

Well, I'm using a bta41-600b triac and a db3 diac. The other components don't really have part numbers, the capacitor is labelled 104 and I've tried both a 250k pot and a 500k pot.

[rad14701]

Well, I'm using a bta41-600b triac and a db3 diac. The other components don't really have part numbers, the capacitor is labelled 104 and I've tried both a 250k pot and a 500k pot.

Do you have a picture or link to the capacitor used...??? I have some .1uF's that don't work and some that do... Bigger physical size works better...

[duracell]

I've tried a few, the one I'm using on my 240v controller looks like the one on the circuit diagram I posted. I tried the same looking one on this new 120v circuit without success, and I've also tried ones that look like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CBB22-400V-0-1u ... 2c60a8c54f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'm wondering if the value of the capacitor should change with the different voltage as well. I've tried ones less than .1uf but I don't have anything bigger than .1uf. The smaller ones seem to either not trigger the diac, or only let me get half power max.

[rad14701]

duracell, I have schematics that for a 120V controller using the following parts:

• .1uF, 250K pot, and 3.3K resistor
• .1uF, 250K pot, and no resistor
• .068uF, 100K pot, and no resistor

I, personally, do not like single time constant phase angle control... You'd be better off using a light dimmer, a 1K resistor, and your triac...

[Mr-333]

Can anyone tell me how to gain more variance on the odesit style controller. Currently I can only go from 6amps through to 9amps and would like to be able to go a lot lower.

Cheers

Fil

This one...???

Hi.
There is no analogue for this chip at this moment. It is perfect for heater control. I am using this chip for 2 years, no problems. ~20$per chip or, 15$per 100 chips.

[rad14701]

Hi.
There is no analogue for this chip at this moment. It is perfect for heater control. I am using this chip for 2 years, no problems. ~20$per chip or, 15$per 100 chips. All info to PM

Any sales related information should take place in open forums, and only by members of good standing... We have recently implemented new rules with regard to advertising and dealings with newer members... Remember, this is still considered and illegal activity in most countries...

Please refer to Rules for advertising on Home Distiller forums for more.

Don't take it personal.. The rules are the rules and with only your first post inviting members to PM you just doesn't bode well around here...

[duracell]

duracell, I have schematics that for a 120V controller using the following parts:

• .1uF, 250K pot, and 3.3K resistor
• .1uF, 250K pot, and no resistor
• .068uF, 100K pot, and no resistor

I, personally, do not like single time constant phase angle control... You'd be better off using a light dimmer, a 1K resistor, and your triac...

Well, I ran it on the stove and even though the stove cycles on and off the output is steady, so I've given up on the controller / hot plate for now. I'm using product that I've already done cuts on, so I don't have to worry too much about a steady output anyway. Thanks for the help and if you do get a 120v controller working with that circuit I would still be interested in hearing how you did it for future reference.

[drichards18]

While I was looking for the parts to make the PSR-25 I stumbled on these locally and I was wondering if they would work for a 220V, 5500W heating element?




Omron - G3NA-240B
Control voltage: 3-32vdc
SPST "Contact": 24-250 VAC 40 Amp

• Features compact dimensions (2-1/4L" x 1-11/16" X 1-1/8") to provide a uniform mounting pitch.
• Built-in MOV varistor effectively absorbs external surges.
• Operation indicator (red LED) enables monitoring operation.
• Protective plastic finger cover for greater safety.
• Screw terminals provide quick and easy connection
• Certified by UL and CSA

I've attached the datasheet.

[KY1792]

Since cost was not an issue I bought the SSRMAN-1P intelligent phase angle control module from NuWave Products via his eBay account for $59 and a Crydom CWD4850-10 , 660vac 50 amp random fire SSR from Online Components for $57 + $12 shipping. The 40 amp 280vac unit was about $40 (it must be random fire as zero cross will not work).

I used a small 240vac to 24vac 100ma transformer to power the SSR module and synchronize the control signal to the main line. It has a selectable input to be used with either, a potentiometer, 1-5vdc, 0-10vdc, or 4-20ma. I run mine with a 10k ten turn pot using the 20 second soft start feature.

This may be overkill but only wanted to build it once, the SSR is mounted to a 5"x3"x2" VFD heatsink and gets marginally warm at 5000 watts and stays cool to the touch with a small fan blowing through it, and of course I have panel mounted digital volt and amp meters.

When time permits I will post pictures and more info

[Ian Jay]

Ky1792

I like 'overkill'. It means that I only have to build it once!

[KY1792]

YES SIR

[midlife_rebel]

question for you electrical guys out there...

I just put together a boiler from a 30gallon stainless barrel and welded in some bungs for a 1500 watt water heater element.
I thought that 1500 watts would be sufficient as I have loads of time but would like the unit to be able to run off a single 120v outlet.
My shop was redoing their lighting and was throwing out a single pole 120v 2000 watt dimmer.

Would I even need to dim such a small element for this large a boiler? and.... I am guessing the 2000 watt is simply the maximum that the dimmer will take and 1500 watts can be controlled easily by this?

Sorry for such a simple question to alot of you I can weld, machine and fabricate with ease but electricity still scares the hell out of me. Something to do with an invisible force that can kill you, makes me nervous. thanks all

[Klaxxon]

So, I've built my controller based upon the design from waaaay back in this thread, and read up to page 12 before it just got silly. I particularly liked the idea of using a PC power supply box as the enclosure, and went with it.

I got my triac and resistor from Digikey. Two Q6030LH5 (DK P# Q6030LH5-ND) TO220 triacs and a 75 Ohm 25 watt resistor (DK P# KAL25FB75R0-ND) for under $15 delivered. The triac alone was $30 from my local electronics shop - yer kidding me, right? I got two triacs just in case I screwed up and toasted one and paid less than half the local shop's price to get all three components.

I went so far as to use a case with an external fan on it as standard equipment. I used the PC board and heat sink from the power supply to mount my triac, and found a 100 mA wall blister with 12V DC output to run the fan. My box has the blister hot-melt glued to the PC board, and uses wire to make the connections - not the pc board, which is just a platform to mount it all. I installed a couple of banana jack sockets so I could use a multimeter to monitor voltage. I have another set of jacks that I plan on installing so i can measure current as well, but haven't gotten to it yet.

Its generally clugey, but isnt that what DIY is about? It works great with the store bought cheap-o light dimmer. The resistor is mounted to a heat sink as well. Both the resistor and triac are directly under the fan, which blows into the box and exhausts out of the bottom of the box. Liberal application of hot melt glue and electrical tape for insurance prevent any shorting possibilities. All in all, it works well.

I get control from about 30 volts AC up to a maximum of 94 volts AC. I'm not sure how to get more than 94 volts out of the controller, but I'd like to find out!

I mounted the whole controller box to a 1/2" square tube left over from another project, and screwed that to the top lip of the keg. In addition to the metal to metal connection, ground wires abound both inside and outside of the box, and on the keg itself.

Changes I might make for the 'next' build would include a different package for the triac so I dont need a PC board to mount the heat sink and triac and an indicator lamp so that I know when the power is on to the heating element.

[drichards18]

So, I've built my controller based upon the design from waaaay back in this thread, and read up to page 12 before it just got silly. I particularly liked the idea of using a PC power supply box as the enclosure, and went with it...

Do you have an pics for us to enjoy? We love pics.

[Klaxxon]

sure... i'll get some and post them up. i keep meaning to take pics of everything i've been doing, but it usually works out that i just want to do it, not document it... LOL I'll post them up in the 'this is my still' area and link to it here so i dont overkill with pics.

[rad14701]

I get control from about 30 volts AC up to a maximum of 94 volts AC. I'm not sure how to get more than 94 volts out of the controller, but I'd like to find out!

To get more voltage you might try playing with swapping out that 75 Ohm 25W resistor which is overkill for this circuit... A 1/2W resistor should be plenty... The most I've gotten from this circuit using 120V mains power is 117V, but most dimmers won't even take you that far... The most you'll get from just about any phase angle controller is 95% mains voltage...

[Klaxxon]

Control pics here... the rest of the tall boy in the 'my still' section.

The box mounted to the keg. I used a 1/2 inch square tube to get this done. Its up off the floor for convenience

The guts - difficult to make out, but the blister is bottom left, with line voltage soldered to the plug pins. Upper left is triac heat sink, which has the resistor heat sink stacked onto it with a through bolt.


different perspective - note the wall blister

[rad14701]

Looking good, Klaxxon...

Keep us posted on how the controller works with your still...

[Bob421]

Ok just got around to putting an ammeter on my psr25 based box.
Maybe someone that has experience with panel meters can help.
Got a cheap one off of ebay and am wondering if it is really what is needed.
After getting it those posts don't look substantial enough to handle the 30 amps that it is rated for.
Also It doesn't have any data sheet with it so I cant say what voltages it is rated for.
Here is one just like it. Can I just put it inline in my 220v circuit? Kind of like the analog meter but would go with one of those inductive digital ones if I had to.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/85L1-A-Analog-C ... 2569903fc6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rad14701]

Bob421, that is a 30A ammeter and should be able to handle the current and should work with any standard AC voltage... So it should work with either 120V or 240V...

[Bob421]

Thanks.
I just had this image it melting down in my project box.

[KY1792]

Kinda hard to say with 100% certainty as there are both internal and externally shunted meters of that size. Most meters that require a shunt will have a mV rating on the face (50mV or so) the terminal posts look to be 6-32 and though small can handle the 30 amps using the correct size ring crimp connector. I shy away from fork connectors on applications like.

Every meter I have ever bought that needed an external shunt resistor or transformer (CT) stated it in the specs. A shunt for that meter may be as small as 0.001 ohms (one foot of 10 awg has the equivalent resistance). Connecting a 1 foot loop across the meters terminals along with your load in parallel with the loop will insure no burn outs, if the meter does not deflect then the shunt is either too small or not needed.

If you are leery to try it on your heat controller just wire it in series with a 100 watt light bulb and smoke test it, if it needed an external shunt it will burn out on much less than that.

[rad14701]

The documentation I read on that unit states it is used as an inline ammeter between the mains power and the load... A quick Google of that part number will lead you to quite a few pages about it... You just need to dig to find what you're looking for... Or, better yet, contact the manufacturer...

[Bob421]

Hmmm. A google search didn't turn up much that was comprehensible for me. Probably a misstyping on my phone. I will try again on a real computer.
Thanks.
I HATE PROPANE!!

[Klaxxon]

Well, I decided to make a couple of mods to my control box based on the first attempt at getting a boil on.

I added a line level bypass across the triac to allow the full 110 volts (measured supply level) to heat the element more quickly. I also changed the element to a 5500 Watt / 240 Volt element. Some quick math after a measure of resistance with an ohmmeter reading of 10 ohms gives me an 11 amp current draw. That current at 110 volts is about 1200 watts. When I enable the triac, I can get between 95 VAC and 35 VAC.

At full line voltage, it took about 2 hours to get the pot up to a full boil so the vinegar bath was steaming out of the condenser vent. When I turned on the water after a 20 minute soak the steam stopped, so I assume my condenser was knocking down all the vapor. I got about 200 ml in the 30 minute run i did under condensing.

I think I will add a second element at line voltage with a simple on/off switch to help get up to temperature faster. The 1500 watt / 120 volt elements are less than $10 at my local Lowe's. Now all I need to do is to determine if I have more than one circuit in my garage.

[sandsquirt]

Re: snuffy's triac based controller build

After spending the day with this thread, I had a few questions about this control box. Did you ever get the lamp to glow as the resistor? Is this the same triac as in the original parts list? It looks different than the circuit drawings. After reading the whole thread things are geting a bit mixed up.

I need to add a 30amp circuit in the garage for a small welder. May have to settle on a 25amp though. Can this controller handle a 2000w 120v or 4500w 240v element on 120v.

Thanks

[maheel]

. After reading the whole thread things are geting a bit mixed up.

hey SS in the end IMO the two best power controllers so far is the MK5XXX or a PSR-25 they are built to work and last

the triac ones work (i built on as well) ok but unless your into making circuits etc go the easy way

[rad14701]

sandsquirt, snuffy has not logged in a year and has not posted for over a year and a half...

The light bulb is intended for resistance only and shouldn't light up...

Packaging style of the triac makes no difference in performance, only the operational specifications do...

Yes, the controller can handle the elements you have mentioned as long as the circuit is capable of handling the load...

[sandsquirt]

Thank You. I plan to have the larger service added so the circuit should be ok. Thanks again,

[idopewars]

Here I am, new member only writing my second post and already I'm asking for stuff... shame on me.

Anyway, does anyone happen to have a PCB template for a diac/triac based controller? I figure since I need a controller, I might as well build one from scratch. As long as I'm doing that, I might as well as well put it on a PCB... and hey, why not make my own board as well? I can knock together a template of my very own, but I'm not a Windoze user so my design software options appear to be quite limited. I suppose any drawing program will work, if it comes to it, but if someone's got a ready-made solution for a template... well, I'm not that committed to doing everything myself.