Condenser control still

Distillation methods and improvements.

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Popcorn Fan
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Popcorn Fan »

Ok I think I have a solution, well for 2 1/2 inch or 3 inch anyway, 2 1/2 inch column with a 2 inch arm but it'ld be a longer condensor than usual if it was a 2 inch column.

There would be more vapour from a wider column therefore using a smaller size condensor the vapour will travel further along the condnsor before it can all be knocked down therefore more control over that vapour.

I am building another one in 2 1/2 inch, just have to talk the wife into letting me have more time so I can do stuff .....
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by blanikdog »

I'm just a simple potstiller, and I have no idea why/how this works but I bloodywell love it. So simple it can't be true.

Well done manu.
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Popcorn Fan »

I recon it is the best design for a reflux still I have seen, in my opinion it blows every other design out of the water. I can't wait to see how it goes with a 2 1/2 inch column and a 2 inch condensor arm.

I'm going to take the stainless to work tomorrow and cut and fit it all up, I'll just have to let the boss know I'm doing a bodgy for an hour or so :)
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Thorn_veritas »

So popcorn if you like your new 2 1/2 inch one will you want to get rid of the old 1? If ya do giv me a yell. Im sick of this reflux I got piece of junk! Grrrr.

I still got a shitload of mollases moved to all bran. But drink it all to quick!
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Bushman »

How did I miss this strand earlier? Nice video, I am going to watch this a little closer out of curiousity. I personally like my still as I am only turning a valve to control it rather than moving the condensor but for simplicity this looks great!
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by rad14701 »

I probably shouldn't blurt it out, but I will... :roll: I wonder how long it will take someone to build a condenser controlled vapor management column that doesn't require a gate valve... :idea: Just remember, it was my idea... 8)
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by pjtiger35 »

Great design!
I am going to begin this tower build today, Is the height of the tower critical. I have plenty of 3" to make it any height needed. Thanks
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by rad14701 »

pjtiger35 wrote:Great design!
I am going to begin this tower build today, Is the height of the tower critical. I have plenty of 3" to make it any height needed. Thanks
If you have the height, go with 48" of packed column in order to make it easier to produce 95% ABV... Theoretically, anything over 36" should work, but taller is better... Anything over 60" would probably be overkill and may produce diminished returns...

See the HETP calculator on the parent site if you are interested in how I came about these figures...
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by pjtiger35 »

Thanks,
If I was going to try a bear stripper run to prepare a flavor batch for a pot still should I leave the packing out? Thoughts.
I'm a newbie to this if it hasn't already shown by my line of questions.
Thanks again
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Austin Nichols »

pjtiger35 wrote:Thanks,
If I was going to try a bear stripper run to prepare a flavor batch for a pot still should I leave the packing out? Thoughts.
I'm a newbie to this if it hasn't already shown by my line of questions.
Thanks again
You would need a decent take off resevior (cup) and at least a 3/8 take off line on a 3" rig to use it effectively in pot still mode and avoid unwanted reflux.

Yes remove packing for pot still mode.

Cheers.
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by pjtiger35 »

I can do all that, Thanks Mr. Nichols
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Popcorn Fan »

Good point Austin on the takeoff for the three inch when running in pot still mode I would have gone with 6mm like I normally use, I'll keep that in mind for later on.

PJTiger - I took out about a third off my packing on a 1.5 mtr column in 50 mm and left the condensor right out as far as it would go and got 85% when I ran a rum (it's a very smooth white rum) I recon if you left a bit of packing in and ran it with the condensor right back you would get 70 -75% which would be good for a single run.

Thorn - You should come over and have a look at it, I might get rid of it in the future but it's my first build and I am kind of attached to it. I'll PM you.

I have cut up another 2 stills in 2 inch ready to weld, finished work early so I can cut up the 2 1/2 inch. After that it's cutting up some three inch to make a pot still. Something I don't think anyone has built before, it'll be 30 cm high a 2 inch condensor arm like a condnesor controlled still but the takeoff will only be about an inch from the colum and the condensor will be right back so there is no reflux. As Austin mentioned though it'll need a bigger take off resevior (cup) and I might need a condensor that is bigger than the 6 inch one I am useing.

I love this stuff it's addictive, I'll take photos of the three inch as I do it and put it in a new thread.
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by pjtiger35 »

So this has me wondering if I should use 2" for my angled arm the condenser rides within vrs the 3" on that portion. It would be easier to fad I believe. A guy could cut a hole in the three inch then trim the top 3/4 of the 2' and let it carry into the 3" about 1.25" to create the drip tab into the center of the column.
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Popcorn Fan »

Yep that'll work, there is pipe templates in one of the posts which makes it easy to mark and cut. When you draw it on just sketch in the tab and you'ld be ready to roll :)

I have made 6 of these now I think from 1 mtr to 1.5 mtrs, I have'nt put a centering tab on any of them and they all still pulling 95%. If you have the time and inclination though it certainly couldn't hurt though. If you were going for a short column height it would probably make a big difference.
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Austin Nichols
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Austin Nichols »

Wouldnt reducing diameter of the reflux housing increase vapour speed and require a turbulator of some kind before it hits the condenser coil?

IMHO I would make the whole thing out of 3" and make an extra long condenser housing with a long coldfinger condenser with the coils spaced a bit wider than normal.

Then again I could be talking out of my arse :lol:
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by Popcorn Fan »

Hey Austin,

Yep know what your saying about going from 3 in to 2 in and the amount of vapour, I'll do the 2 1/2 to 2 (I'm pretty sure it'll be all good even with just a 6 inch double wound coil) and see how it goes someone can try the 3 to 2. I recon if the condensor is longer than normal and a bit wider spaced it should knock it down (that said I have never built anything in three inch). One thing is if the condensor is increased by say 3 inches the condenor arm will be increased by 6.

I'm going by the "try it and hope it works method" :)

I hope you don't say I told you so in the future.
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by guittarmaster »

dude, what a cool design! simple and effective. does this mean it's time to update the parent site with a new style of still for the beginner? :?:
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manu de hanoi
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by manu de hanoi »

attention still collectors, this one is cool too and is in need of tinkering :
reverse CM
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by lordmango »

Hi! I love your design! :o

It's easy to control even for those who have never run a column before, and it's so simple to build!

I fell in love with this design the first time I saw it, and I'm concidering making one myself.

I was thinking about making it with 3 inch tubing as it looks like you've done.
I'm also thinking about making the vertical tubing about 45 inches tall and the condenser arm like 30 inches long and at a 10 degree angle. What do you think?

Also, if this does work: How many watts should my heating element be on? I don't feel like using live flames around alcohol, so I'm going for electrical heating of the mash.

LordMango out.
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by manu de hanoi »

for 3 " with ss scrubber I recommend 68" height and 4kw, that is if you want 92++% abv on the first pass. I used a 22" arm but the more the better
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by hackware »

if my view of how this still works is correct, reflux and product condensing is controlled by the ratio of cooling before and after the product take off valve...

what about two coils, formed into a "Y" coil, where both have a common water supply, but the lower coil has a valve to reduce or even turn off flow to control reflux...

when control valve is fully open, full reflux (nothing gets past takeoff valve), when fully closed, no reflux and upper coil creates product...

no moving parts! (except valve)...

william...
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

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Re: Condenser control still

Post by rad14701 »

hackware, we'd need to see a diagram of what you are describing... It doesn't sound any simpler than what manu has presented... I don't think you could get much simpler while remaining as effective...
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by hackware »

ummm... got a "The extension bmp is not allowed." error...


william...
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

lead, follow, or get out of the way... ankle biters will be kicked...

•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¯¯¨˜"william..."˜¨¯¯¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by hackware »

two coils, formed into a "Y" coil with a common water supply...

lower coil has a valve to reduce or even turn off flow to control reflux...

when control valve is fully open, full reflux (nothing past takeoff valve)...

when fully closed, no reflux and upper coil creates product...

no moving parts! (except valve)...

william...


ps. thanx for the .jpg tip manu... :thumbup:
Attachments
YCC.JPG
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

lead, follow, or get out of the way... ankle biters will be kicked...

•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¯¯¨˜"william..."˜¨¯¯¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by rad14701 »

Ahh... Looks more like a dual inline condenser design to me, hackware... Not seeing a true "Y" there, just split or dual streams... Still seems like a more complex way to achieve the same results as the utter simplicity of moving a single condenser up and down in relation to the take off port... Interesting nonetheless...
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by hackware »

the "Y" is at the common supply feed...

william...
Attachments
YCC-the-Y.JPG
YCC-the-Y.JPG (7.7 KiB) Viewed 3100 times
Last edited by hackware on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

lead, follow, or get out of the way... ankle biters will be kicked...

•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¯¯¨˜"william..."˜¨¯¯¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by HookLine »

hackware:

I always thought the point of Manu's design is a still that does everything from straight pot still to full reflux, is easy to run, takes the least effort to build, at the least cost, with the least number of parts (in particular to avoid needing a precision – ie expensive – valve of any kind).
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by manu de hanoi »

BTW it seems that in the CC design (and everywhere there is a copper reflux coil) most of the condensation occurs at the tip of the copper coil. Because the condensation is not evenly distributed along the coil that results in not so good reflux control.
I am still looking for a good, easy coil design
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by HookLine »

Manu

Have you tried a stainless tube coil?
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Re: Condenser control still

Post by manu de hanoi »

HookLine wrote:Manu

Have you tried a stainless tube coil?
Cant coil normal tube to this diameter and dont have access to crimped tube
EDIT: it's actually feasible to coil ss tube to this diameter with sand filling, but that's a tough build
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