Got letter from TBB today..

[Scribbler]

Interesting... So in Canada having a basement still is in the same department as growing three or four plants of weed? I a
Always thought one was criminal while one was a tax offence. Interesting...

[Doogie]

You can own a still. Just can't use it legally.

ABSOLUTELY Wrong - read the Exise Act of Canada

Possession of ANY part of a still is illegal - worm, condensor, etc, etc.

Now, owning one clean in a box never used is going to give probable cause in defense - you will probably lose it and that is really it ... but it is ILLEGAL to own a still (or part thereof) in Canada.

[Scribbler]

Lol... Funny, down the road from where I live are several stills proudly displayed at the local park!

[Doogie]

operational?

I have seen cannons at a historic fort ... does not mean they can fire anymore. Warplanes too ...

[Scribbler]

Yup. All they need is a fire and some wash!!

[Doogie]

Where is this park? lol ... too funny ...

Dare you to go try it - just load it with water ... pretend you are hammered and drink it right off the still output ...

[Stonemull]

so how many letters have been sent out ?

if I intended to 'inspect' someones house wanting to catch them unawares, i wouldn't be sending a letter first.

how many have been raided ?
how many prosecuted, fined, had items confiscated.

if these lower numbers are = zero as I suspect they are, then consider it a courtesy letter with the exact consequences being zero. looks like a cheap fist waving scare campaign. putting boots on soil and lawyers in courts costs a lot more.

at least thats my take on it, from another country, with no letter. easy to be blaise.

[Scribbler]

Stonemull: yes. Yes but....... If you get arrested for unpaid parking tickets, this might show up.

If you make the news as an advocate, this might show up.

If you piss off a plainclothes on the streets of ny, this might show up.

If you run for mayor or county comptroller, this might show up...





It ain't a matter of just ignoring it... It will also pay to "know what is in the wind" so you can judge future actions... When you leave the Amish, it don't really matter if its over the country music, or over the rocks and roll: you chose what you chose and you ain't goin back.

[Stonemull]

I'm just olaying devils advocate, I can see how disturbing it would be to receive such a letter but I honestly think that thats it, all thats going to happen.
they would need a very very good reason to visit, you really think buying a part of a still or even a whole one is kept on your permanent record with zero proof that it was for your own use and to produce hooch. perhaps you wanted a boiler to make tea for the bingo club. does that give them the right to enter your premises even if that was their intent ?
thats some dangerous ground they would be treading there, its bypassing rights to privacy, its also an assumption of guilt, no way they will go any further without any evidence. not even sure they can.
where next, you bought a hacksaw and a piece of copper, that gives us the right to knock down your door.

its tantamount to assuming that everyone who buys a gun is planning a murder. nothing wrong with sending them a letter to warn of the consequences for murder, but its not going to lead to a visit.

[Truckinbutch]

Wasn't that about what happened in OZ over firearm ownership ? TTB has been knocking on doors and confiscating in FL . There is another thread about that .

[thecroweater]

Wasn't that about what happened in OZ over firearm ownership ? TTB has been knocking on doors and confiscating in FL . There is another thread about that .

Partly : what happened was they changes the way firearms categorized so suddenly a whole lot of firearms fell into restricted categories. These included semi automatics of any kind, pump action shot guns, centre fire rifles that could hold any more than 3 shots, any hand guns and many many more and you couldn't keep the restricted firearms unless you could show that you absolutely needed them. There was also many other changes made to how they could be stored transported and then the greater than 1000% increase in licencing fees
with stilling we are a little bit lucky that the law is a federal law poorly written and a very old hangover of colonial English law, the legislation governing ownership and operation of stills is spread over two acts and would be quite difficult to achieve a successful conviction I would think and I doubt they would be keen to test those old laws in court. They might find it easier to charge someone with owning a still with capacity greater then 5 litres but it would be a lot of effort to get a mistemeaner however if you are found to have sold it then it is covered by a completely act pertaining to taxation fraud and they can and will put you well and truly in their cross-hairs. I do feel for you guys getting harassed over these stupid laws and keep thinking surely they got bigger fish to fry than trying to nail some battler for making himself a little dram to sip on

[Stonemull]

Wasn't that about what happened in OZ over firearm ownership ? TTB has been knocking on doors and confiscating in FL . There is another thread about that .

ah, then its a different matter I guess.
I am curious how they can really justify their actions on the matter. I will see if I can find the other thread and educamate myself.

[urbanshiner]

Has anyone that has purchased from copper-alembic.com gotten a letter?

I am wondering if ordering from an out-of-country supplier is harder for them to get records.

[Doogie]

Anyone outside of the US is not required to comply with the TTB laws - they have no jurisdiction outside of the states. If it was illegal, then it is up to border security to enforce the laws

[Deerhunter]

Was wondering if retail distilling suppliers are obligated to notify the TTB if the public buys still making equipment and supplies as well? Example, boilers such as stainless steel mike containers and so fourth. Or are they just notifying them of complete stills being sold. I'm sure there must be some type of serial # on these stills for them to keep track of.

[RandyMarshCT]

Deerhunter, complete stills as well as boilers, as far as I know. Not on individual components, though.

[rad14701]

Was wondering if retail distilling suppliers are obligated to notify the TTB if the public buys still making equipment and supplies as well? Example, boilers such as stainless steel mike containers and so fourth. Or are they just notifying them of complete stills being sold. I'm sure there must be some type of serial # on these stills for them to keep track of.

Farm and dairy supply businesses are not required to report stainless steel component sales to the TTB... You can purchase as many milk cans, pails, triclover clamps, pipe, and fittings as you want without concern...

[Usge]

To add to what Rad said...if you are buying "milk cans" from a dairy supply place...that's fine. Or kegs from a beer supply or wine as well. But, if they are sold as "boilers" from a brewsupply, etc..place...then the TTF gets interested. The commercial "brewsupply, distillation supply" houses that have been contacted...have been asked to supply information on complete stills, condensers (reflux and product) and "boilers" including milk cans setup with ferrule to attach a column. Any other parts or supplies they have not requested info on (so far)

[Deerhunter]

Thanks Guys.....Want to be as discrete as possible.

[RandyMarshCT]

glaciertanks also sells stainless brewery equipment, but no distilling supplies.

[Antler24]

I dunno if anyone in Canada would be bothered by buying a commercial still. I didn't want to take that chance so I built mine, but I was at the local homebrewing and winemaking store last night and they had 3 different stills there for sale, and lots of accessories for them.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but I read somewhere online (can't find it again) that only once on record in canada has someone been brought to court for possessing a still, or making illegal spirits for personal use. Story goes the guy had a 5 gallon still and a few gallons of stuff. Judge threw it out, said the guy paid taxes on all his supplies, copper, grains, etc. If a man were to buy and pay his tax on knitting needles and some yarn and knit himself a sweater, would we throw him in jail because he didn't pay taxes on the sweater?

[jackfiasco]

I got the same letter too, about a year ago. I bought a brewhaus still but I bought it used on eBay and was quite surprised to get the letter for that reason. So far nothing has come of it, and I don't expect anything to. I think, as others have stated, it was just a scare tactic.

[milehidistilling]

I just received this letter from the TTB

[Bushman]

Interesting, thanks for sharing with us as we have a lot of members that are interested in purchasing.

[aquavita]

Love how that letter was written.

You read through a whole compressed paragraph about what is required.... Then are told to "Never mind"....

Unreal.

[Bushman]

Yea but they reserve the right to still request the information!

[Antler24]

Yea but they reserve the right to still request the information!

so in laymens terms manufacturers are no longer required to send personal info regarding till purchases to the TTB, unless reason arises and they request it.
Maybe something can be worked out with the still manufacturer. If TTB contacts them and asks for info the manufacturer contacts the folks and kindly gives them a heads up that they are in the spotlight, giving enough time to dispose of or relocate anything.

[Bushman]

Yea but they reserve the right to still request the information!

so in laymens terms manufacturers are no longer required to send personal info regarding till purchases to the TTB, unless reason arises and they request it.
Maybe something can be worked out with the still manufacturer. If TTB contacts them and asks for info the manufacturer contacts the folks and kindly gives them a heads up that they are in the spotlight, giving enough time to dispose of or relocate anything.

Most of them are doing that now, but if you say you sold it they will probably want more detailed info.

[rad14701]

Could be a ruse to get folks to start buying from vendors again instead of building so once people drop their guards they can swoop in and have more new information (read, evidence) to work with...

[T-Pee]

Aka "tampering with evidence" but I like the way you think!

tp