Over fermenting?

[Seeves1982]

I just tried distilling for the first time. I made a simple mash of sugar and corn meal. I used 10ga of water, I used roughly 4 standard bags of suger, and 3 cans of corn meal. I steeped the corn meal at 120 farenheit for a half hour then added sugar for another half hour. I pitched wine yeast thinking that I would get higher ABV from it. It sat for 3 weeks. I didn't want it to sit this long, but weather has been shitty and I had to wait for my still to get in. I cleaned the still per directions it came with and went to do my first run today. Everything went kinda good, but I was getting no production till about 200 degrees. I was told by the still manufacture that this was acceptable and could just be variance in the thermometer. I'm running a reflux still with three SS pot scrubbers backed in the column. I threw away the first 2oz of the run as the heads. I collected about 4oz as the middle part of the run, but when I collected a sample I noticed that it wasn't flammable. So I switched containers and started collecting the rest as ends. Which I collected about 8oz. This was all only out of about 2ga of mash(wash) whatever it's called in this world. My plan was to collect everything except the heads and re run everything through. I had originally assumed that the sample I collected wasn't flammable because the temps were rising and it was more dilluted with water, but this is where it becomes proper for this forum. I was reading about how to make a mash with apple juice and the topic of vinegar came up. I never even considered this. My background is in beer and I know that beer can sit for 3-6 weeks normally with no concequences. And I'm not sure that sugar and corn can ever turn into vinegar. Anyhow my question is what do you think the chances are that my mash turned to vinegar? And is wine yeast acceptable or should I just consider this a loss and start from scratch? I plan to use bakers yeast in the future, but would like to salvage this mash. Also if anyone has any hints or tips on if what I'm doing is right or wrong please let me know, I'm a clump of clay waiting to be molded.

[Samohon]

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[Dnderhead]

sounds like it did not work off all the way,I cant tell you why as not enough information.
and you should take SG/FG not that it is absolutely necessary but it helps diagnose problems.
this can be caused by too much sugar,,not enough nutrients,,to hot/cold,,inadequate yeast.

[rad14701]

We really need to know more about your still... You should have collected a lot more product, even with a reflux column, and it should have been flammable...

Did you notice any fermentation taking place...??? Did the wash taste dry or sweet...??? How big were those bags of sugar...???

More questions than answers at this point...

[Seeves1982]

Ok I'll try to answer everything Didn't expect so many replies.. This is great.

1. O.G. was 1.040 FG was 1.030 (I know that that is a high fg) I didn't really trust my hydrometer in this case. Again this is my first corn meal and sugar mash and there was so much corn meal in the bottom that my hydrometer was kinda sticking to the bottom. And I just assumed that the FG was so high because there were still alot of sugar left with the alcohol aswell.

2. The wash tasted sweet

3. My still NR-5 from rocky top. I packed the column with three stainless steel pot scrubbers.

4. I can't remember the size of the suggar bags exactly. And I can't remember the total amount of sugar. But the recipe was calling for
3lbs of sugar
3lbs of corn meal
1 can of malt
5 gallons of water

We didn't deviate much. We did not want to use malt so we uped the sugar and corn meal a little.
I think we went 8lbs of sugar and 4 pounds of corn meal. And 10ga of water.

Oh yeah I did notice fermentation taking place.


All input appreciated.

[Dnderhead]

!.040sp=5.3% posable alcohol <> 1.030sg=3.9% left when you stopped. so 5.3- 3.9=1.4 alcohol in wash..
5 gal at 1.4%=10.36oz alcohol....
next time make a good wash ,, keep it warm ,make shure it ferments dry.........

[Seeves1982]

Well I still have three quarters of the wash left to ferment. Is there anything I can do to salvage this wash? Does it just need to sit longer and ferment out? And for my next wash I would like to do apple juice does anyone have a proven apple wash that has good output? And if I should just let it ferment longer, how long can I let it sit without it turning to vinegar?

Thanks again guys.

Oh yeah can anyone explain to me why my temps are so high? Why the second part wasn't flammable? And does my column packing sound right or should I put more in or take more out?

[Seeves1982]

I just thought of another question. I'm a hot mess. Sorry for being so trouble some, but this is just turning out to be alot more complicated than I anticipated. I'm not discouraged. Just I figured it would be easier. Anyway

1. Since I already collected heads off the first run. When I re-run it how much should I remove as heads

[rubber duck]

It's not troublesome. There is no direct answer for your question, You make the cut by taste and smell. Collect in half pint jars and let them air over night, then pick the ones you like. There's a guide to cuts in the new distillers reading lounge, I would encourage you to read every thing in that forum.

[Dnderhead]

1) the amount of sugar determines the amount of alcohol (1 lb per US gal=7%), but you need enough nutrients to do the job,,
2) most "whole"grains/fruits have enough nutrients.but be careful with processed when doing so they remove some/all. much like you whole foods is best.
3)yeast like it warm,60-80f (16-27c)the top end is better.
4) most dont remove for shots or heads/tales on multiple runs ,they do so on spirits run.
now you will have to remove more.

[Seeves1982]

4) most dont remove for shots or heads/tales on multiple runs ,they do so on spirits run.
now you will have to remove more.

When you say multiple runs vs spirit runs and they don't cut on multiple runs. Do you mean they don't cut on the first run, but they do on the second? And when you said I'd have to cut more. You meant more than I already did right not more than others would have to? As far as cutting on the second cut. Will I still have to do 2oz? My thought process was since I already cut most of the nasty stuff out on the first run less would be needed to be pulled from the second? Is this true?

Thanks, again

[blind drunk]

That's why I like to cut with each stripping run. Because I like to save up my low wines and mix with my feints, I never have to keep track or rely on my faulty memory. I get rid of it up front, then I forgetaboutit. Just a thought.

[Ayay]

Hi Seeves 1982, I think your brew did not eat up all the sugar either because you threw in the yeast while it was too hot thus killing off most of the yeast; not enough airation, or you simply didn't give it enough time under the circumstances. Other reasons are PH and lack of nutrients, but if you are following a 'Tried and True' recipe these should not be the problem.

I don't measure the SG while brewing stillin type brews. Got caught twice stilling a brew that was not finished and only knew the answer by how much alc came out. The stuff left in the boiler tasted sweet. When this happens there's sugar left behind in the boiler so cool it down, airate it, add more nutrients if needed, fresh yeast, and let it finish what it is supposed to do and still it again. Adding it to the next brew will also convert the remaining sugar to alc.

[Seeves1982]

What I've decided to do is I purchased new yeast and nutrient. I'm going to mix that in the rest of the batch and let it ferment for another week or two. After that I'm going to distill it, get what i get out of it, and call it a day on that wash. I'm not expecting a lot of production out of this batch. So as far as cutting. I've decided to remove the first two ounces of each first run of this batch. There will probably be about three more first runs as my still will only hold about 3 gallons if you leave enough room for foam up. Then I'm going to take everything I get mix it together with a couple gallons of water so that I dont run my still dry. When I run the second distilation I'm going to toss out the first two ounces as foreshots as I collect I'm going to collect two ounces and blend according to smell. When I read stuff I don't truely understand it doesn't really make since to me so I've kinda given you guys my step by step plan to see what you think so please let me know if this plan is good or not. After this I want to make a tried and true wash. The two that I really want to try are either the wheat germ wash or the welches grape wash. I'd prefer the welches grape wash because waiting for the wash to cool to pitch the yeast is my least favorite part of the process and with that wash your only heating up 1 gallon or water and then adding 4 gallons of cold clean water. Which should cool it down fairly quickly; however, I'm a little reserved about the extra methanol in the wash. Please give opinions and ideas on this. Thanks again for the help guys I'm feeling better about this already.