Question on freeze distilling.

[A74]

When I'm seperating out my alcohol and the water/ice,will I have foreshots ,and how will I be able to tell what is what and how do I seperate ? Getting ready to start some corn flakes fermenting and want to try the freeze method---for now. Bob

[firewater69]

You can't separate fractions by freeze jacking. so yes fores, heads & all will be in it.

[bellybuster]

the cornflakes recipe really needs proper distilling. freeze distilling works for beer or fermented apple juice and such that has a naturally pleasant flavour to begin with.
if distilling interests you, why not just build one? if you can afford to do it wrong several times, you certainly can afford to do it right only once

[hamshine]

When I'm seperating out my alcohol and the water/ice,will I have foreshots ,and how will I be able to tell what is what and how do I seperate ? Getting ready to start some corn flakes fermenting and want to try the freeze method---for now. Bob

Iv heard that you will find the tails on top the hearts underneath the heads under that and the foreshots on the bottom they will be layered by density the trick is to get the hearts in the middle very carefully so as not to disturb the layers id use a copper or ss straw and drink them out of the middle.



note that won't really work build you a simple still

[ShineRunnah]

Be cautious with freeze distilling. You are concentrating the harmful compounds that are normally discarded as foreshots. My personal feeling on the practice is to avoid it. If you can't distill, brew beer or wine. The skills involved with either beer or wine making transfer directly into mashing for distillation and are very beneficial in my opinion.

[still_stirrin]

Yup, it concentrates the flavor and character of the ferment.

I jacked a fermented apple juice (no sugar added) and it fermented dry, jacked to about 15-18 %ABV. The acidic concentration increased through the jack and the result was so sour it made me pucker. I didn't like the taste of it so I just pured it into the apple wash and ran it through the pot still. Much better off the still.

I'd suppose that if the original ferment was fruity and slightly sweet, jacking would be a tasty option. Too dry and you're better off running it.

Just my thoughts.
ss

[frozenthunderbolt]

Possibly useful after doing a pot still run to make cuts, then jacking to boost ABV (assuming you can put outside to freeze - jacking in a freezer is a waste of power).

[Bagasso]

Possibly useful after doing a pot still run to make cuts, then jacking to boost ABV (assuming you can put outside to freeze - jacking in a freezer is a waste of power).

I think you have that backwards. Jacking so that you can have a still charge in low wines range before a run, where you can make cuts, would be more useful.

Also, why do people think that freezing is so inefficient? Cooling a liquid from room temp, 25-30ºC, to -10ºC takes a lot less energy than heating that same liquid to 98-99ºC. The fact that freezers are well insulated while the average still has heat pouring out of it into the environment (wasted energy) makes an even bigger difference.

[NZChris]

If freeze jacking worked well and made good product, your local liquor store would be full of freeze jacked products.

Freeze jacking does have a place in flavoring alcoholic beverages, but it is not a substitute for a still. If you don't have what you need to build a still and are wanting cheap likker, consider making beer, wine, cider, or some of the many non-distilled bevvies that have been invented for our pleasure.

[whiskymonster]

Brewdog make a freezejacked beer.
http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/214" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have tried it, and whilst it isn't bad, the hangover the next day is something truly amazing.
My advice would be to instead buy yourself a cheap bottle of whisky, and a ball peen hammer to beat yourself around the head with the following day.

It will feel about the same!

[NZChris]

Brewdog make a freezejacked beer.
http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/214" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have tried it, and whilst it isn't bad, the hangover the next day is something truly amazing.
My advice would be to instead buy yourself a cheap bottle of whisky, and a ball peen hammer to beat yourself around the head with the following day.

It will feel about the same!

I do a few bottles of partially freeze jacked beer every time I bottle and they are very nice, especially after long aging. And yeah, they probably would give me a hangover if I was stupid enough to get smashed on them.

[Bagasso]

If freeze jacking worked well and made good product, your local liquor store would be full of freeze jacked products.

Since when are products on liquor store shelves examples of good products?

If you don't have what you need to build a still and are wanting cheap likker, consider making beer, wine, cider, or some of the many non-distilled bevvies that have been invented for our pleasure.

How is drinking a beverage with all the congeners different than drinking a beverage with all the congeners?

Yes, that is what I actually wanted to type.

[ShineRunnah]

If freeze jacking worked well and made good product, your local liquor store would be full of freeze jacked products.

Since when are products on liquor store shelves examples of good products?

If you don't have what you need to build a still and are wanting cheap likker, consider making beer, wine, cider, or some of the many non-distilled bevvies that have been invented for our pleasure.

How is drinking a beverage with all the congeners different than drinking a beverage with all the congeners?

Yes, that is what I actually wanted to type.

Having tried a few Tactical Nuclear Penguin's (abv 32%), I can attest that the hangover is noteworthy. Why, I do not fully understand. Maybe because after drinking 3 jacked beers, you've consumed 9 or so beers worth of congeners? Possibly due to their being concentrated?

I don't consider jacked product to be of high quality. And considering the relative ease and low cost of producing it, it seems there would be more people producing it if it were a desirable product. Unless my feeling of being smashed in the head with a brick when I awoke the next morning after consuming a few jacked beers was unique, I can see why it's popularity is marginal.

[Bagasso]

Having tried a few Tactical Nuclear Penguin's (abv 32%), I can attest that the hangover is noteworthy. Why, I do not fully understand. Maybe because after drinking 3 jacked beers, you've consumed 9 or so beers worth of congeners? Possibly due to their being concentrated?

3 beers at 32% is equal to 19.2 beers at 5%.

That's the whole point, there is no difference, so why tell someone to brew beer or make wine instead?

[ShineRunnah]

Having tried a few Tactical Nuclear Penguin's (abv 32%), I can attest that the hangover is noteworthy. Why, I do not fully understand. Maybe because after drinking 3 jacked beers, you've consumed 9 or so beers worth of congeners? Possibly due to their being concentrated?

3 beers at 32% is equal to 19.2 beers at 5%.

That's the whole point, there is no difference, so why tell someone to brew beer or make wine instead.

I've tried Samual Adams Utopias, which has an abv of nearly 30%, and is not jacked. No blaring hangover the next day.

After drinking the same amount of Tactical Nuclear Penguin, ie: the better part of a 12oz bottle in a few hours time, I had a blaring hangover.
I have had the same result every time, so it is not a one-time occurrence. I tend to believe it is a result of jacking, as I've had similar experiences every time I've tried anything jacked, and it doesn't happen when drinking fermented or distilled beverages.

And why make wine or beer, rather than freeze distill? You'll learn more valuable skills by brewing good beer or wine and perfecting those skills than you ever will stuffing crap in the freezer. If you plan to eventually distill, you'll be better off knowing how to make a proper mash than knowing how to toss a bucket in the freezer.

[Bagasso]

I've tried Samual Adams Utopias, which has an abv of nearly 30%, and is not jacked. No blaring hangover the next day.

After drinking the same amount of Tactical Nuclear Penguin, ie: the better part of a 12oz bottle in a few hours time, I had a blaring hangover.
I have had the same result every time, so it is not a one-time occurrence. I tend to believe it is a result of jacking, as I've had similar experiences every time I've tried anything jacked, and it doesn't happen when drinking fermented or distilled beverages.

I've seen a group of kids get drunk on near beer and alcohol free coctails. Last time I had a beer session I polished off a 12 pack and felt like hell the next day but that doesn't mean I'm going to run around telling people to not make or drink beer.

And why make wine or beer, rather than freeze distill? You'll learn more valuable skills by brewing good beer or wine and perfecting those skills than you ever will stuffing crap in the freezer. If you plan to eventually distill, you'll be better off knowing how to make a proper mash than knowing how to toss a bucket in the freezer.

It's not an either-or situation. It's not a reason to tell somoene not to try jacking.

[ShineRunnah]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I can't recommend something that I feel is a waste of time and ends with an epic hangover.

We don't condone consumption of foreshots, and anything freeze distilled obviously includes every drop of fores that would be removed through proper distillation. Sorry, just not a process I see as an acceptable substitute for a proper still.

You are welcome to your opinion, this is mine.

[Bagasso]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I can't recommend something that I feel is a waste of time and ends with an epic hangover.

You don't have to recommend anything but you also don't have to tell someone not to try it based on a faulty premise.

We don't condone consumption of foreshots, and anything freeze distilled obviously includes every drop of fores that would be removed through proper distillation. Sorry, just not a process I see as an acceptable substitute for a proper still.

Sure we do. There is a "beer and wine" sub-forum and those drinks also contain every drop of fores.

Nobody is saying that it's an acceptable substitute for a proper still but there is also no reason for the person not to try it if they want.

[ShineRunnah]

I'm done with this pissing contest. My standards for quality do not include freeze-distilled anything. I do not partake in this hobby or as a member of this forum to promote or produce cheap, sub-par quality alcohol. I will continue to promote quality spirits over "cheap booze" as long as I am here. If you don't have a proper still, you shouldn't be distilling anything. If it's a cheap drunk you seek, you're probably at the wrong forum...

Good luck

[Truckinbutch]

I'm with you , ShineRunnah

[Bagasso]

I'm done with this pissing contest. My standards for quality do not include freeze-distilled anything. I do not partake in this hobby or as a member of this forum to promote or produce cheap, sub-par quality alcohol. I will continue to promote quality spirits over "cheap booze" as long as I am here. If you don't have a proper still, you shouldn't be distilling anything. If it's a cheap drunk you seek, you're probably at the wrong forum...

Good luck

Please, save the false indignation. Let people practice their hobby any way they like, as long as it's safe. Why must they strive to meet your standards of quality?

[NZChris]

How is drinking a beverage with all the congeners different than drinking a beverage with all the congeners?

Freeze jacking concentrates anything with a melting point lower than water, including the acids, so making a palatable jacked drink isn't as simple as just chucking something you already like in the freezer.

I freeze jack the dregs after racking and bottling beer then spike a few bottles with the concentrate and put them away for long term aging. On it's own, the concentrate is almost nasty. These are not 'lawnmower beer', and are better enjoyed at cheese cave temperatures in winter, rather than swilling them out of the beer fridge in summer.

[Bagasso]

Freeze jacking concentrates anything with a melting point lower than water, including the acids, so making a palatable jacked drink isn't as simple as just chucking something you already like in the freezer.

Now we're talking shop.

In your opinion, is this sourness, that was also mentioned earlier in the thread, the only drawback when comparing this to beer, wine or cider?

[NZChris]

In your opinion, is this sourness, that was also mentioned earlier in the thread, the only drawback when comparing this to beer, wine or cider?

If you have bitter, expect to concentrate it. If you have furaneol, I expect you would lose some of it.

I see jacking as a tool in the flavoring kit more than for alcohol concentration. Note that jacking can also be used prior to fermentation.

[Bagasso]

If you have bitter, expect to concentrate it. If you have furaneol, I expect you would lose some of it.

Makes sense. I was just thinking that the low pH of the average wash makes the sourness a factor everytime.

I see jacking as a tool in the flavoring kit more than for alcohol concentration. Note that jacking can also be used prior to fermentation.

I was just playing around with some corn water. I don't like the taste of corn in booze but it was being discussed in a different thread a while back. I felt that the idea worked but the flavor was weak. Hadn't thought of jacking.

[NZChris]

I'm in the process of trialing two balsamic style cider vinegars. One reduced by simmering, one by freeze jacking, both aging on JD chips and with cloth bungs. They've only been aging five months and are really nice already.

[rad14701]

Freeze jacking is also inefficient from a percentage of available alcohol perspective... If you lose X amount during freeze jacking for "low wines" and then lose Y amount during distillation, there's your reason why it would never be acceptable practice for commercial distilling... And I would never use the method for the same reason of overall efficiency from a yield perspective...

[Bagasso]

Freeze jacking is also inefficient from a percentage of available alcohol perspective... If you lose X amount during freeze jacking for "low wines" and then lose Y amount during distillation, there's your reason why it would never be acceptable practice for commercial distilling... And I would never use the method for the same reason of overall efficiency from a yield perspective...

Are there any hard numbers behind that claim? I tried doing some tests a while back and remember the numbers looking less than favorable but it was such a small batch that I don't feel like I came to a conclusion one way or the other.

I think the reason that jacking is not being used in industry might be because it doesn't scale up as easily as distilling.

If you lose Y amount doing a stripping run and then another Y amount during the spirit run must we start telling everyone that stripping runs are bad?

To be honest, after some of the info that has come up about the best place for copper in the still, your marble thread, nuke and ultrasound aging, I am suspicious of what is often posted as conventional wisdom

[bellybuster]

This is just like a conversation with my 16 yr old daughter.

You guys do realize the op hasn't even set foot back in his own thread?

[Bagasso]

Well, his question was answered in the second post of the thread.