Triple wound condenser size.

[Digital_Plasma]

I'm building a modular still and just finished the pot still head. But I'm wanting to build a reflux head also and found the ccvm still type to be interesting. I'm using 2" copper pipe for all my builds. I have made a approx. 6" triple wound condenser some time ago and was wondering if it would suffice for the still. My power is a gas burner that gives a max. output of 9.8kw (more than I could handle, but can be regulated of course and I don't expect to use anything at full power).
Should I make a new condenser?
Cheers.

[still_stirrin]

How do you fit a triple wound coil condenser inside a 2"ID pipe? It sounds very tight to me. Are the coils touching each other?

I would prefer a double wound condenser that was longer...say 12" long. And you don't want it wound so tight that the coils touch each other. The goal here is to get the vapors to "touch" all the surface of the condenser. And a "longer" coil will be more effective than a "tighter" coil.

With the potential for that much power, you'll need plenty of reflux condenser capacity to contain the vapor production. Oh, and you're product condenser will need to be just as powerful as well.
ss

[GrassHopper]

+1 Still-stirrin

I think that 6" may be too short for your RC. You will need at least 10" extension above your T on your column for your system to operate smoothly. I had that issue at first with only about 8" above mine and had to extend it to 10" with a 9" double wound copper helix RC to get good vapor flow to my PC. You will also need a really good pump to get water up to the top into your RC to get enough water flow.
Many of the guys are now using CSST gas pipe for the RC, which seems to be a better choice. I will changing to that as well shortly. Just more efficient.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Why don't you just try it out and put all the speculation to rest? Finish your build, and then try it. If it doesn't work, should only take an hour or two to wind another one, and have your rig going

[rad14701]

I'd be very interested in seeing a triple helix coil that fits in 2" copper... What size annealed copper is it made from, 1/8" or 3/16"...???

[Digital_Plasma]

Hmm. It's packed pretty tight, so the coils are touching each other (no dirty thoughts ). But it's proberly packed too tight as SS suggest. It's made from 3/16 soft annealed copper tube. I had to cheat a bit because I wanted to resuse two old coils. So I took them apart and reassembled it. It's got a fine flow through it.
CSST is very hard (and expensive) to get here, so thats not an option i'm afraid. BTW, i know it's isn't the prettiest coil.

2.jpg (30.32 KiB) Viewed 1964 times

[Danespirit]

Well, that should work ok.
However, if you feel for making a new coil, here is how I did: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=52290
They are made out of standard breaking line for cars (6mm), readily available around here.
My coils are made for a 2" reflux still.

[GrassHopper]

[quote="Digital_Plasma"] BTW, i know it's isn't the prettiest coil.

I remember looking at my first kid. Privately, I thought damn that kid is sure ugly......but, hey she was mine, and I was damn proud.
So, if your the father of your creation, you outta be damn proud that you made it and who cares what anyone else thinks!
Hope it works. Go fer it.

[still_stirrin]

Yea, it may work. Just watch the heat input so you don't start spitting hot alcohol vapors out the top.

A triple coil has the water inlet at the bottom of the inside coil, winding up, then down on the middle coil, and finally up and out on the outlet....right? So, this way you're "warm water" is on the outside, getting progressively cooler towards the core. Unfortunately you won't get the same advantage of the same length of copper wound into a double coil, as it would be a longer coil and also it would make the vertical temperature gradient more effective.

Give 'er a shot and see how she performs. At best...it'll work. At worst...you can rebuild another coil. But you'll know what you need to change.
ss

[bitter]

it should work.. if not make a csst one... dead simple and more effectlive than the copper...

[rad14701]

Well, that should work ok.
However, if you feel for making a new coil, here is how I did: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=52290
They are made out of standard breaking line for cars (6mm), readily available around here.
My coils are made for a 2" reflux still.

Not sure about other countries but here in the US plain copper is not legal for use as brake lines due to the possibility of failure... Here the copper must be clad in steel, copper on the inside and steel on the outside... Back when I worked for Chrysler I replaced failed copper brake lines that a shade tree mechanic had installed without knowing any better... Several other vehicles failed inspections due to copper lines which had to be replaced in order to be legal... The main reason for making mention is that here in the US the use of brake lines would not be suitable for use in a still due to the steel - unless it was stainless steel...

[The Baker]

rad said,'here in the US the use of brake lines would not be suitable for use in a still due to the steel'

But would that matter if the brake lines were copper lined?
Geoff

[Danespirit]

I sure see your point, Rad....it's important to use the appropriate materials.
If there were any mild steel in there, it would be unacceptable for distilling equipment.
Here in Denmark, we can buy steel braking lines too.
However, the repair kits for all older automobiles are in genuine copper.
They come in a flat coil, and one has to straighten them and use a special tool to draw a collar on the end that has a union nut on it.
A repair kit for newer automobiles will be factory premade pieces of steel pipe, that couldn't be used for a still.

rad said,'here in the US the use of brake lines would not be suitable for use in a still due to the steel'

But would that matter if the brake lines were copper lined?
Geoff

It doesn't matter how the inside looks as there is only water running in there...it's the outside that is critical.
However, I wouldn't use them even IF they had a coating of copper and were made out of steel.
Sooner or later mild steel will rust a leak trough the coating...so only genuine copper or stainless steel.

[rad14701]

rad said,'here in the US the use of brake lines would not be suitable for use in a still due to the steel'

But would that matter if the brake lines were copper lined?
Geoff

Well, in a still, considering how water would be flowing through the copper and the vapor was contacting steel, yes... You would have hot alcohol vapor rusting the steel on the outside of the copper line... Steel is used for strength, to protect the copper from being punctured while the copper is on the inside to reduce the introduction of rust into the brake system...

@Danespirit

Here in the US you can't use plain annealed copper line as replacement brake lines - period... You also cannot use compression fittings on brake lines... All fittings must be double-flared or threaded...

[The Baker]

Obviously I was back to front as to where the water and the vapour go.
Probably thinking of a worm in bucket condenser.
Geoff