Why is this forum so hostile?

[Waterbelly]

I know I’m not the only one who notices. HD is a joke on other distilling forums for this very reason. The worst part is the mods are the worst offenders. The mods and their merry bands of yes men and other random “master distillers” the mods seem to worship are the most gatekeep-y angry folks on this forum, and the more I read, the more it seems like this forum is just a club that a few core members want to keep private, but can’t so they just have shit horns to deter newbies. If it weren’t for the knowledge I’d go somewhere else, as I’m sure others would too.

So what’s the reason? Let’s discuss.

[3illmesmart]

I don't feel that way.
I wish other forums had people on top of the post of the day, week, month..., if that's what you mean.
Way too many first post start looking for a shortcut.
If you do the reading, it's not that hard to fit in.
Can't comment on other forums, but I get straight info here and I've not had any problems.

[Deplorable]

If you think this place is hostile, you should go hang out on a gun forum like AR15.com. Honestly, I find this place very hospitable with the exception of a very select few that seem to have shone up more lately.
The mods here certainly uphold the rules, and they take a very firm stance on bullshit. I'd venture a guess that most of them are in their mid to late 60s and are part of a generation that doesn't tip toe around the point. Something the younger generations seem to not accept.

Do I agree with all of the rules here? No, but I respect the opinions of those who are generous enough to share their knowledge and promote safe hobby level distillation in an effort to promote legalization, so I abide by the rules and be civil.

[still_stirrin]

Seriously Waterbelly?

With a thread starter like this do you really expect any reasonable responses? It certainly seems like you have a major chip on your shoulder.

When you attack the population, you’ll face the same treatment back at you. I won’t bother responding to any of your subsequent posts. I’m done with you.
ss

[Sporacle]

. If it weren’t for the knowledge I’d go somewhere else, as I’m sure others would too.

Never had an issue here have you? Thought the info you got from Yummy, Kimbo and Demy was helpful and polite in relation to your CCVM condensor questions

[Dancing4dan]

Not sure it is worth talking about “why”.

Can’t imagine trying to moderate the HD forum. Just the tsunami of new members would be overwhelming. Television and internet has been awash with “Moonshine”. This has resulted in a huge surge in interest. Over zealous new members asking questions that make experienced distillers pull out their hair. Coming up with hair brained erroneous ideas and posting them.

Ask me how I know… because I have been all of that.

I am grateful to anyone who takes on being a moderator here. My hat off to those people.

Conflict is inevitable when serving ETOH, opinions, ideas, knowledge and ignorance. Just how it is.

However, the senior members on HD have a wealth of knowledge and experience. One of the best things a newb can do is pick a mentor or two from among those senior members and Personal Message them. They will give and give and give.

Knowing what to ask is so difficult. We don’t know what we don’t know. And there is a lot to not know. Distillation seems so simple to the uninitiated. Of which I have been. Humility and an attitude of “not knowing” go a long way.

[zed255]

It can seem hostile here for the uninitiated , but I think often it stems from new members immediately violating or pushing the established rules or asking the same questions answered for the nth time. I get it that reading and researching here can get tedious or even frustrating , especially if you aren't versed with the lingo to get good search hits. The old timers understandably get short when repeating themselves.

I do only partially agree the mods are a little aggressive at times. They do a good job keeping things in check, where other less moderated forums are rather unpleasant places due to members themselves. The perfect balance is hard to strike but I prefer a well moderated forum.

In the end if you are not happy with the environment you can always find one you are more happy with. We can all choose for ourselves. It's like watching TV or listening to the radio, don't like what's on then change the channel...

[Waterbelly]

. If it weren’t for the knowledge I’d go somewhere else, as I’m sure others would too.

Never had an issue here have you? Thought the info you got from Yummy, Kimbo and Demy was helpful and polite in relation to your CCVM condensor questions

Oh dude don’t get me wrong, I don’t for a second think every single poster here gets attacked. Those who responded to my thread are notoriously helpful and were a huge help! I just see so much animosity for the slightest infractions. I just read saltbush say the snarkiest thing to a vet here for accidentally taking a thread off track. I guess I’m used to (read; come from) forums where to be a mod you had to have a level of professionalism. I don’t see a shred of that here from the mods or their cronies.

[Waterbelly]

Seriously Waterbelly?

With a thread starter like this do you really expect any reasonable responses? It certainly seems like you have a major chip on your shoulder.

When you attack the population, you’ll face the same treatment back at you. I won’t bother responding to any of your subsequent posts. I’m done with you.
ss

Whoa man lots of reasonable responses here except yours. Maybe you forgot to take your klonopin?

Everyone else, take notes. This is the same bullshit I’m referring to. SS sounds like he needs a drink.

[Waterbelly]

I don't feel that way.
I wish other forums had people on top of the post of the day, week, month..., if that's what you mean.
Way too many first post start looking for a shortcut.
If you do the reading, it's not that hard to fit in.
Can't comment on other forums, but I get straight info here and I've not had any problems.

I’m stoked for you! Hope the rest of your stay here continues to be that good

[Waterbelly]

It can seem hostile here for the uninitiated , but I think often it stems from new members immediately violating or pushing the established rules or asking the same questions answered for the nth time. I get it that reading and researching here can get tedious or even frustrating , especially if you aren't versed with the lingo to get good search hits. The old timers understandably get short when repeating themselves.

I do only partially agree the mods are a little aggressive at times. They do a good job keeping things in check, where other less moderated forums are rather unpleasant places due to members themselves. The perfect balance is hard to strike but I prefer a well moderated forum.

In the end if you are not happy with the environment you can always find one you are more happy with. We can all choose for ourselves. It's like watching TV or listening to the radio, don't like what's on then change the channel...

Hey I appreesh the response! I agree that the mods do a half decent job, but where I come from there is a reasonable amount of professionalism the mods are supposed to uphold, and here there isn’t a shred of that from them or their cronies. That’s why I’m asking why.

Like I said though, if it weren’t for the knowledge buried in the shit, I WOULD change the channel

[Waterbelly]

If you think this place is hostile, you should go hang out on a gun forum like AR15.com. Honestly, I find this place very hospitable with the exception of a very select few that seem to have shone up more lately.
The mods here certainly uphold the rules, and they take a very firm stance on bullshit. I'd venture a guess that most of them are in their mid to late 60s and are part of a generation that doesn't tip toe around the point. Something the younger generations seem to not accept.

Do I agree with all of the rules here? No, but I respect the opinions of those who are generous enough to share their knowledge and promote safe hobby level distillation in an effort to promote legalization, so I abide by the rules and be civil.

I am not referring to the bluntness of our mods. I’m referring to them not having an ounce of professionalism or respect for their title. The forums I’m used to expect their mods to be responsible adults, not “oh I’m old and just tell it as it is” which is really just an excuse to be a cunt.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I'm sure you know that more than one of us are aware of this thread, and have enough decency to let you have your say among this wonderful wealth of information that you have yet to contribute to in any meaningful way. Do it in a more respectful way, or I'll end your tantrum quick. Watch your language.

As you were.

[Waterbelly]

Not sure it is worth talking about “why”.

Can’t imagine trying to moderate the HD forum. Just the tsunami of new members would be overwhelming. Television and internet has been awash with “Moonshine”. This has resulted in a huge surge in interest. Over zealous new members asking questions that make experienced distillers pull out their hair. Coming up with hair brained erroneous ideas and posting them.

Ask me how I know… because I have been all of that.

I am grateful to anyone who takes on being a moderator here. My hat off to those people.

Conflict is inevitable when serving ETOH, opinions, ideas, knowledge and ignorance. Just how it is.

However, the senior members on HD have a wealth of knowledge and experience. One of the best things a newb can do is pick a mentor or two from among those senior members and Personal Message them. They will give and give and give.

Knowing what to ask is so difficult. We don’t know what we don’t know. And there is a lot to not know. Distillation seems so simple to the uninitiated. Of which I have been. Humility and an attitude of “not knowing” go a long way.

For sure man. I appreesh the response! I get that the waves of the greenees asking the same question over and over and over and over and over again gets old; but it’s kind of what they signed up for! They’re a MODERATOR on a HOBBY FORUM!! Haha if this was a forum for chemistry professors only it would make sense to respond to those asking redundancies with a bit of snark, but it’s not. The lack of professionalism and respect for their title makes this forum a laughing stock on other, smaller forums. People like Rad and Still Stirring and Saltbush are talked about and referred to as cunts who gatekeep and turn people off of the hobby. They give us a bad name.

[Waterbelly]

I'm sure you know that more than one of us are aware of this thread, and have enough decency to let you have your say among this wonderful wealth of information that you have yet to contribute to in any meaningful way. Do it in a more respectful way, or I'll end your tantrum quick. Watch your language.

As you were.

I’ll absolutely watch my language, apologies.

But I’m loving the textbook examples of the behavior I’m referring to in my thread! Vindication is like a drug to me.

[Yummyrum]

Oi watch it Deplorable I’m only in my mid Fifties
Sorry if I’m a grumpy O’l man sometimes .

Waterbelly , it’s a fair call that HD has a reputation on other forums for being hostile. It certainly was a nasty place a few years ago . I even stopped coming here myself .
Equally HD has a reputation on other forums as having some of the best and up to date distilling information .

It was realised by Admin years ago that there was a problem here and steps have been taken to fix it . If you think dog piling is bad now , you should have seen it five years ago .

Sure there are still quite a few “grumpy” members and we, both Mods and other members remind each other when we think we need to step back .

The number one aim if this forum is to have accurate information and support a safe hobby . Only when we see obvious breaches do we step in .

Unfortunately there has been a ridiculously high number of new members join in recent years that have been misslead in thier understanding by certain You-tubers and TV series .Many are resistant to accept that they have been miss lead . This tends to end in shit storms .

Anyway , like I did many years ago , if you’re not happy here , don’t stay .

And to use the words of the boss of another forum I moderate on , anyone is welcome , but leave your baggage at the door .

[Waterbelly]

I'm sure you know that more than one of us are aware of this thread, and have enough decency to let you have your say among this wonderful wealth of information that you have yet to contribute to in any meaningful way. Do it in a more respectful way, or I'll end your tantrum quick. Watch your language.

As you were.

Also; what is the point of saying I haven’t contributed to this forum in a meaningful way? That’s the stuff I’m referring to; you sound like my wife when she’s mad, hiding little digs at me in an otherwise neutral comment

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I wasn't hiding it. You deserved more, but as you say, we should work on our professionalism .

[Waterbelly]

Oi watch it Deplorable I’m only in my mid Fifties
Sorry if I’m a grumpy O’l man sometimes .

Waterbelly , it’s a fair call that HD has a reputation on other forums for being hostile. It certainly was a nasty place a few years ago . I even stopped coming here myself .
Equally HD has a reputation on other forums as having some of the best and up to date distilling information .

It was realised by Admin years ago that there was a problem here and steps have been taken to fix it . If you think dog piling is bad now , you should have seen it five years ago .

Sure there are still quite a few “grumpy” members and we, both Mods and other members remind each other when we think we need to step back .

The number one aim if this forum is to have accurate information and support a safe hobby . Only when we see obvious breaches do we step in .

Unfortunately there has been a ridiculously high number of new members join in recent years that have been misslead in thier understanding by certain You-tubers and TV series .Many are resistant to accept that they have been miss lead . This tends to end in shit storms .

Anyway , like I did many years ago , if you’re not happy here , don’t stay .

And to use the words of the boss of another forum I moderate on , anyone is welcome , but leave your baggage at the door .

Hey that’s really good to hear!

I’ve yet to see much of anyone doing the “reminding” you refer to but I’m hopeful as I have seen you here since I started reading long ago and you are among the most reasonable members here.

I look forward to the day where I don’t need this forum! until then… guess I’m stuck

[Waterbelly]

I wasn't hiding it. You deserved more, but as you say, we should work on our professionalism .

Hey respect for owning it! I’ll drink to the future of HD

[zed255]

Like I said though, if it weren’t for the knowledge buried in the shit, I WOULD change the channel

Well, I can't argue about lots of good knowledge and experiences being buried and not always easy to find. That said, HD is one of the most consistent and reliable sources of information on hobby distilling no matter the personalities participating.

Remember as well, as far as I'm aware our mods and admins are volunteers and as such aren't paid to keep things running smoothly. Nobody is required to pay to participate here so I guess we get what we pay for!

[Waterbelly]

Seriously Waterbelly?

With a thread starter like this do you really expect any reasonable responses? It certainly seems like you have a major chip on your shoulder.

When you attack the population, you’ll face the same treatment back at you. I won’t bother responding to any of your subsequent posts. I’m done with you.
ss

Sooooooo? Where’s all this harsh treatment bb?

[bcook608]

The fact that ANYONE is willing to be a moderator and share their experience and experiments when in most parts of the world (in my limited understanding) it's a big no no to be doing so, is something to be grateful for. I'm not a part of any other distilling forums, but I can say that the freedom with which information is shared here and how quickly you can receive and answer makes this place a priceless resource for both new and seasoned distillers alike.

That being said, who cares about how professional/unprofessional a moderator of an online forum is? This isn't a business. In fact, a lot of people who use this site are considered criminals in the eyes of law enforcement.

I'll pass on to you what I pass on to the inmates at my prison. It's not my job to make sure you feel good about what I have to tell you, it's my job to give you accurate information and if you can't take that information for what it's worth and put your personal feelings aside, that's a you problem. If I have people coming up to me and asking a simple question that they could answer themselves by taking 2 minutes to review the bulletin board, of course my response is going to be something along the lines of "Do you have eyes? Can you see the board over there? Go look at it harder."

This place is a giant bulletin board. But it has the added benefit of having both a standard search bar and a more advanced google search feature. If people can't be bothered to look up the information they need before starting the 1000th topic about the same issue, why should they expect to be given the answers they're looking for without the occasional "are you blind, or just stupid?" response? Especially when the majority of the required reading repeats multiple times that you should exhaust all search options and put a reasonable amount of effort into finding your own answers before posting a new topic.

I'm still new here, but after about 3 weeks of constant reading, re-reading, and more than a couple harsh responses, I learned how to better use the search functions and how to word my topics so that I didn't come off as "that new guy that doesn't seem to want to put the work in." How you ask a question is often more important than the question itself. Often times, it's better to ask for people to verify your thought process in regards to a certain issue by stating "this is what I've read and this is what I'm thinking about doing, am I on the right track?" rather than asking "how do you do ____?" Other members, and even the moderators, are more than willing to let you know if you're headed in the wrong direction. Nobody here will let you fail. Not unless you've demonstrated that you don't/won't take the advice given.

Take the information for what it's worth and don't take the responses personal. I haven't seen anyone being attacked here unless (like this topic) they were poking the bear. Do the required reading, do your own research, and if you have to ask a question make sure that you show what you've done to try to find the answers you're looking for so others know you're not just looking for a free handout.

[Dancing4dan]

Ok….

I’m outa warm and fuzzies….

[Twisted Brick]

If it weren’t for the knowledge I’d go somewhere else, as I’m sure others would too. (If I wasn't drawing a paycheck I'd quit)

While they may not be perfect, the mods’ style is effectively similar to a number of companies where I’ve worked, where some co-workers show up unprepared, expect to be hand-held and are told upfront to ‘do your job/get a thicker skin’ before slinking off and bad-mouthing management. It’s obvious this dilemma is so prevalent here that members routinely join in to share the load.

The job the mods do here to keep HD from devolving into a ‘pretender’ Forum is as repetitive as it is thankless. The bloated, the arrogant and the dangerous distillers soon learn the tone of the mods, and eventually leave unless dismissed. Still, weeding out the rest takes time and energy. The restraint they exhibit in the face of so-called ‘experts’ is commendable.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I know I’m not the only one who notices. HD is a joke on other distilling forums for this very reason. The worst part is the mods are the worst offenders. The mods and their merry bands of yes men and other random “master distillers” the mods seem to worship are the most gatekeep-y angry folks on this forum, and the more I read, the more it seems like this forum is just a club that a few core members want to keep private, but can’t so they just have shit horns to deter newbies. If it weren’t for the knowledge I’d go somewhere else, as I’m sure others would too.

So what’s the reason? Let’s discuss.

You think this is bad?
You should've seen it a few years ago when RAD was around. They have made many changes here.

If you wanna be coddled post in the novice section.

[NZChris]

If you get your posting rights removed, I have no sympathy for you. I don't agree with all of the rules and decisions made by the forum owners and moderators, but it's their forum and I'm happy to let them run it how they feel fit and just fit in with the group.

If you know of a better place to share distilling knowledge, PM me the URL.

[Yummyrum]

How about we all have another think about Rule C .

Be polite and courteous. Remember that nobody is perfect and nobody knows everything. We've all got our strengths and limitations, which is why we share information with each other in the first place. Remember that we're all different and nothing is going to change that fact. #

That might prevent a whole lot of name calling and obnoxious comments .

[Setsumi]

I realy should not comment here.... BUT

ImissRad

[Chug]

They’re a MODERATOR on a HOBBY FORUM!!

Well, yes, but also, no...I might be prolonging a thread where everyone’s already said their piece , but I think the difference here is that this hobby has the potential to injure or kill ya pretty quick. When I was a control engineer years ago, it didn’t matter two hoots how senior I was, if I stepped onto a job site and started to do something stupid, a tradesguy would holler at me pretty good, and I probably deserved it. I’ve moderated for a few communities over the years and I’ve found that (a) being a mod is emotionally exhausting, and (b) a lot of the time, hostility, snarkiness and the perception of gatekeeping are usually relative. Not to say they don’t exist, but every forum and community has its own culture, and I’ll bet that there’s probably some element in the “other” forums where people slag HD, that some other person here would find toxic. Just like ya can’t always pick your neighbors and your family, but you can always choose how much to interact with them. Live and let live, I guess.