New pot still with pics.

[Nightforce]

From paper....

To reality...

Solid copper thermometer port.

Amazed myself this time as I only had one tiny leak, so small that it never showed signs of steam or dripping, only a slight discoloration of the copper.
So far it's only made its maiden voyage with water to check its operation, cleaning and and for leaks but it seemed to knock down all the vapor I could throw at it until my recirculation water reached 44°C with the burner wide open and that is without a turbulator (to be installed tomorrow). Max flow seems to be a little over 4.4L/hr with water and condensate was only warm to the touch. I have to run a few more cleaning runs to make sure it's good and clean, then I'm ready for stripping my sugar washes so I can free up my fermentors for some flavored runs.

[Hawke]

Looks good. If it can knock down water at that rate, should be a runner.

[LWTCS]

Nice neat work

[WalkingWolf]

Very Nice. Clean and tidy. I hope it runs as good as it looks.

I am in the final stages of material gathering and I am having a time locating a keg. Any suggestions?

WW

[HookLine]

Nice work.

[Centimeter]

Very nice work. One question- where'd you get that copper thermometer port? Do you have to use PTFE on it or is it some sort of compression type fitting?

[blanikdog]

Nice Work, NF. Very nice in fact.

blanik

[xx7777xx]

I am in the final stages of material gathering and I am having a time locating a keg. Any suggestions?

WW

WW

What part of the world are you in? If ou are in the US, most standard beer kegs are made from SS and will work nicely.

x7

[Nightforce]

Thanks everybody for the comments. It's a real joy to actually build something taking your time and doing it right, using it and enjoying the "fruits" of your labor.

Centimeter - I have access to a lathe/mill combo and turned it myself from solid copper. I've since made a delrin part to hold my thermocouple too, and no PTFE on the compression fitting. Taking the advise of experts here, I decided that absolutely no plastic was going to be in this still. I used a deburring tool to remove most of the ridge from the compression fitting and then with some hand work made the fitting as smooth as possible. Once snugged up it's proven to be leak free.

It really seems to run like a raped ape. I seem to consistently get 67-75ml/min (4-4.5L/hr) with water. I don't know if that is actually good or not but it's double what I was figuring on so I'm happy. I'm trying differnet cooling methods at the moment. Twelve gallons water in a bucket using a 600gph bildge pump works well but the temps require me to change the water about every 45 min (about when the water hits 45°C) and I don't like wasting the water or changing it for that matter. Using fresh cold water from the tap revealed that in fact only 1/2 the condenser is being used. Condensation was present about halfway up the tube and water flow was next to a trickle. I've got a radiator block from water cooling my computer at one time that I'm going to attempt to place inline to see if I can run full recirculation water.

I'm really looking forward to making a bokakob slant plate reflux next.

Thanks again to all and to be politically uncorrect.....Merry Christmas Everyone!

[Nightforce]

Been reading up on UJSSM and have a quick question relating to distilling with this column. It's a non packed column but I'm wondering if packing it with a copper scrubber or two and some rachig rings would improve it's %ABV ability. Given it's design, running the numbers on the parent site, it should be producing ~60% to start and finishing in the mid 30's after a run. My fear is that it is in fact a "runner" as one person said, and that I won't be able to turn it down low enough to get good spirits from it. During the vinegar/water run and subsequent plain water cleaning run I really turned up the heat to stress it. I was able to easily get a sustained 4.8L/hr rate for about a gallon and a half of water, which should make a good stripper but I eventually want to produce a good flavored spirit too. I'm wondering if installing some packing and/or a ¼" cooling coil to the outside of the column would add some reflux and get the %ABV up into the mid 70's or low 80's?

[Dnderhead]

adding packing will rise ABV but lower flavor,, Id whate and see what it does, then go on that.

[Hawke]

What are you using for heat?
I run a 60,000 btu propane burner, and have no problem cutting it back.

[Nightforce]

I went back and re-read the parent site. For some reason I was thinking a fractionating column was a reflux column, which I guess it is, but a reflux column isn't always a fractionating column. LOL, like I was prepping for a SAT test or something.

So I guess I answered my own question, adding some packing will turn the plain pot still into a reflux still. I'll run a sugar wash and see how it performs before adding packing.

Hawke,

It's just a wee tiny burner compared to yours, about 15,000 btu,so it should turn down good. I was just wondering if turning it down to much to get the ABV up would reduce the heat and cause an inconsistent boil. I use a handful of rachig rings to help but don't want anything bigger as it would probably be to loud bouncing around in the bottom of the keg.

[Nightforce]

Got to do a first run with my new still. I'm not to happy with it actually. Ran a 10.35% wash and yield was low. Initial out the end was only 35% and went down from there. Column will knock down anything I was throwing at it and flavor of the wash was great but to get the ABV up I'll have to add some packing. Prolly put a copper scrubber at the bottom and some rachig rings the rest of the way up the column and run a second batch through it to see how it goes.

[LWTCS]

Heck NIghtforce, I'd say that 35% abv would be typical.
Run it again with good cuts and you'll be happy as a clam.

[Nightforce]

Do you think I'm being over critical of my still? I ran 18L of wash at 10.35% and got almost a gallon of distillate before stopping it at 98°C. As a learning experience I can finally say that I observed distinctive fore shots, heads, hearts, and tails. I saved a quart jar of hearts at what was about 66 proof and it's absolutely drinkable. Nice nose and very pleasant to drink; much better than some shine I had that an in law obtained from someone who'd supposadly been doing it for 20 years. I find that hard to believe but even my dad agreed.

Will put in some packing and run the next UJSM to see how that performs. Sour mash on batch 1 is bubbling like crazy; it kicked off within 4 hours I'd guess. Added 5# sugar and 3 gal water while I ran the strip, then cooled the back set to 100°F, dissolved 2# sugar and mixed it all up and added another 7g packet of yeast. I left and returned about 4 hours later to find the air lock in almost constant action.

[blanikdog]

When you say 35% abv nightforce, is that the measurement after a complete run. What is the initial abv? My still is almost the same as yours but only has eight inches of column and produces around 65-72 abv - depending on the wash - and I stop at around 40abv and taste. The abv of the entire run is usually around 50-55 again depending on the wash.

blanik

[Nightforce]

Blanikdog,

Yes, initial out of the pipe was 35% abv and went down from there. Maybe I was impatient on the strip run and stripped to quick. I had a nice 1mm stream coming out of the condenser. I ended up stripping an 18L wash in under 2 hours including heating time which was about 35min and got just shy of a gallon jug full (~3.5L I'd guess). The total collected was 22.7% abv by my weight measurement (absent a alcoholmeter I collect 20ml in a syringe and weigh on a 0.1g accurate scale, then use this formula to find %abv. s.g. - 1 /-0.211. I have a hydrometer that will read down to 0.700 and that backed it up with a s.g. of 0.952.

My column has no packing and is 1½" diameter by 18" tall. EDIT - It's actually 25" tall to the neck of the turn down. It would be easy enough to poke some holes and solder in some 3/8" tube and put in some packing for some reflux I guess. Dunno....

I'm not sure what I did wrong. Although a second run should bring up the proof over 40% so I can cut it back. It has a very palatable flavor as it is, without cuts, so I'd say a second run through with cuts and it would be some very good product to attempt to oak. I'm really looking forward to running the second sweet mash batch as well as the subsequent sour mashes.

[blanikdog]

I don't think that you're being over critical about you still. Something else seems wrong. Im running a batch of Allbran - as an experiment - as we speak and it's came out at 72abv. This is the foreshots, heads around 70 I guess - I work be taste and use the alcohol hydro as a gauge only - and after collecting 4.5 quarts it's still coming out at 60 abv and I'm well into the hearts now. This is normal behaviour for my still. I would expect something similar from yours.

What was your OG and FG of the wash? What was your recipe? Maybe tater has some idea. He runs a pot. Meanwhile I'll keep thinking.

blanik

[olddog]

I think you need to get an alcometer before you start making too many judgements, used with a parot beak you can do continual monitoring. Before I built the Frankenstill I used a plain upright column, I used to start at around 64ABV and run down to 35ABV making cuts along the way, every wash turned out similar. With a plain column you will need to do a few stripping runs followed by a spirit run to achieve a higher ABV. I now use my Frankenstill with the integrated thumper and my runs start around 84ABV and run down to 40ABV this gives me an average of around 70ABV for the total run. I run a 25 litre sugar, tomato paste ,lemon juice, and yeast wash the other day, with a vapour infusion for some gin, it delivered 2/12 litres of 70abv, when shis was diluted down to 40 ABV I ended up with 7 750ml bottles of gin from a 25litre wash.
I have got to be happy with that.

BTW as previously stated introducing a scrubber may increase ABV, but will strip out a bit of flavour.

[Nightforce]

OG was 1.085 and FG was 1.005 so that should give me a wash that started at 10.32% right?
1.085-1.005=0.080
0.080*129=10.32%

I sure would like to think I could get 60-70% on the first run. This was a UJSM first (sweet) mash followed to the letter. OG was 1.085, maybe 1.087 was hard to tell with the bits of corn and husk floating around.

Thanks again for all the help and thoughts on this.

[rad14701]

OG was 1.085 and FG was 1.005 so that should give me a wash that started at 10.32% right?
1.085-1.005=0.080
0.080*129=10.32%

I sure would like to think I could get 60-70% on the first run. This was a UJSM first (sweet) mash followed to the letter. OG was 1.085, maybe 1.087 was hard to tell with the bits of corn and husk floating around.

Thanks again for all the help and thoughts on this.

OG 1.085 - FG 1.005 = 10.32% ABV according to the calculator on the parent site, which is what your calculation shows...

If you don't have an alcometer you can test samples to see if they burn... Even the foreshots and heads from a stripping run should burn as they should be well above 40%, closer to 50% - 60% or higher...

There should be a Javascript pot still calculator on the parent site, and there is also a Windows executable that Husker wrote that can be downloaded from the Wiki, as I recall...

[Nightforce]

I don't know what I have wrong, but I definately have something wrong. This time added a SS scrubber and about 18" of rachig rings to the column, there is no other cooling with the still. The second batch of sweet UJSM finished at 0.994 (1.085 to 0.994 = ~11.4%) so I pulled off 18.5L (it was a light yellow and I filtered through 50um polyester mesh) and ran that this morning. first 100ml out was about 48% and then went down from there. I pulled the heat back and collected at about 50ml/min starting and let it run at the same heat for the rest of the run. I don't know what I'm missing but it's kinda frustrating. I'm thinking of adding 3 short cooling tubes to the top of the column to give it some reflux, enough that I can tune to maybe 60% so I'll have some flavor coming through but better %abv. This is a ¼ keg boiler btw if I hadn't stated that before.

Here are the stats of the last run:
Total product collected until 98°C was 3.8L
Final product was 23.8 %abv (S.G. of 0.950) <--- That SUCKS arse
Total time of run: 2h 22m
Total time of collection: 1h 45m (AVG 36.2ml/min)

Not really the happiest with the performance of this still (guess I'm one of the few who could muck up a pot still) but I guess a second time through with decent cuts should get the %abv up over 40%. I've got one 2nd batch of UJSM a day into the ferment and as soon as the backset is cool enough I'll have the second one going...guess I got some time to work on the still.

Thanks again to all.

[kol2nas]

Hi everyone. First time poster.

I plan on building a still based on this design. BUT... the tubing... everything that is above 22mm, tubes, fittings, etc. cost a damn pretty penny here, where I live.
So my question would be about using 22mm tube for main arm. Would it be enough or is it too small? How about productivity?
I plan to attach it to a SS 50L beer keg with gas heating.
Any other suggestions will be highly appreciated

[Nightforce]

Hi everyone. First time poster.

I plan on building a still based on this design. BUT... the tubing... everything that is above 22mm, tubes, fittings, etc. cost a damn pretty penny here, where I live.
So my question would be about using 22mm tube for main arm. Would it be enough or is it too small? How about productivity?
I plan to attach it to a SS 50L beer keg with gas heating.
Any other suggestions will be highly appreciated

My guess is that the 22mm tubing would be to small and push the vapor past the condenser before it has a chance to condense. Maybe a long condenser with a turbulator and some copper/stainless scrubber in it would slow down the vapor enough to let it to condense.

To everyone else,

My pots still itself performs rather poorly as is and I was wondering if simply adding several small cross tubes at the top of the column with the scrubber and raschig rings would increase the %abv into the 60's range in one run? I don't mind a double run setup for flavored stuff, say 4-5 strip runs at about a gallon each yield, then a spirit run with 4-5 gallons of ~40% to give me some good cask strength stuff. To HAVE to do about 12 in total to do a "full" run kinda stinks. Right now it looks like I'll end up having to do 8 runs to collect about 8 gallons of 25%, with my 1/4 keg that is 2 runs to hopefully collect about 4-5 gallons of 50%, which would give enough to do a single 5 gallon run to get into the 70's or so. I'm looking at 11 runs to get 2-3 gallons of cask strength; I'd like to get that to about half the runs.

[kol2nas]

My guess is that the 22mm tubing would be too small and push the vapor past the condenser before it has a chance to condense. Maybe a long condenser with a turbulator and some copper/stainless scrubber in it would slow down the vapor enough to let it to condense.

Well..., I'm disposed to doubt it.. A friend of mine made a still from materials he had at home at that moment.
You can see a picture of it here http://host-photo.com/?module=show&file_name=IMG458.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It was not for drinking, it was for playing around, until everything in process of distilation gets clear.
As you see it has only a 6mm pipe, and about 20-25cm (8"-10") ocndensor length. It works well on 400W and gives him about 900mL per hour. And we must consider that the condensors inner diameter is equal to main arms diameter which is only 6mm. So I think the only thing that influence vapor flow is the condensor.
I may be wrong. And if I am, please correct me. But I sure hope I am not... because then I will be able to build more efficient still with A LOT(!!!) less expenses

[SuperDavid]

nighforce
I don't think you are tooo far off the mark. I make sure my washes are 1080 and when I strip as a general rule I get 4ltrs of strip per 20ltrs of wash. and the strip is usually just over 45%. I strip down to 20% and sometimes 10% depending on what I'm doing.
The only thing I can think of, is either leaks or your washes don't have as much alcohol in them as you think.
have you tested your hydrometer in water to see if it's accurate?
When you clamp your still onto your keg, what gasket are you using?

[xx7777xx]

Nightforce

I'd suggest doing a pressure test for leaks to see if maybe you are losing some ethanol vapor to the atmosphere during your runs.  As already suggested, I'd look at your seal and all joints.

Just a thought:

x7 

[Nightforce]

SuperDavid and xx7777xx,

I'm getting about 3.8L off of 25L wash and my starting %abv, what is coming out of the still within 10min of the run, isn't as high as your final %abv. I'm using a syringe and a tenth gram accurate scale to test %abv and it seems to be spot on for some known fluids. Denatured alcohol tests out to 95-97%, water was spot on at 0% and some intermediate known specific gravities of water/alcohol mixes were withing a few percent; also confirmed by the fact that the distillate 10 min into the run won't burn either. I will be getting a alcoholmeter to use and making a parrot so I can monitor the output. I just can't seem to grasp why my still is performing so poorly. I do test my washes when they are nearly clear with my wine hydrometer which reads down to .990 and use the OG-FG*129 to get wash %abv.

What is a typical collection rate for a strip run? Maybe I am running it to fast and next run I'll slow it down quite a bit, then again, it doesn't seem to make sense that a strip run would be as slow as my old valved reflux AND get less %abv. I don't think I have any leaks as last night it was 55°F where I was and didn't see anything dripping or condensing vapors. The connection to the boiler is a delrin bushing with brass ears which fits snugly into the throat of the sankey valve coupling, using the same o-ring that came with the keg, and you have to push it down and rotate the column to lock it in place. The column protrudes into the keg by about an inch. The fit is tight enough that when the boiler comes up to temperature the coupling constricts and you can't remove the column until it's cooled down, so I doubt there are any leaks at that joint. The only other place for a leak would be my thermometer port, but there is only one and a half thousandth of a inch play between the hole size and the diameter of the thermocouple probe and I don't see escaping vapor or condensate there either.

[SuperDavid]

I'm not sure what type of coupling your talking about with joining to the keg, but if it needs to constrict with heat to rely on a seal, I think perhaps it may actually be leaking there? even with a small gap at the thermometer port that could leak too...doesn't need much space to leak. I would get some ptfe tape and see if you can make better seal around the thermo probe. atleast then you can 100% count it out.