Jimbo's Electric Conversion

[Jimbo]

Several folks have PM'd me asking about how this is wired. I drew this up, hope it helps.

For the Keg side dont forget to ground the keg itself. I drilled a hole in the bottom skirt to attach ground. See below. Also dont forget to ground the control box also, its easily missed in the drawing above.

Cheers,

Jimbo

[Prairiepiss]

OK folks, here's some stats on how this baby runs. Just finished the first stripper run.

I loaded in about 12 gallons of 8% ABV wheat AG and threw on the coals (the wash was about 66F). Measuring 240V at the element it was the full 5500W the element can produce. It took 36 minutes for the run to start and 44 minutes for a full heavy stream. Thats less than half the time it took me with my propane burner roaring.

As things settled in and stabilized I was pulling quarts at 5:10 minutes a piece yes thats too fast, even for a stripper. My 40" leibig knocked it down just fine, but did need a faster water rate than typical, definitely not a trickle. Here's some measurements -

12gal 8% wash
36 min to run start
5500W 5:10 per quart
4000W 8 min per quart
3000W 12:15 per quart

The entire run took me 2:15. Much faster than propane. About half the run was at 3000W and then I bumped it to 4000W and ran at 8 min/quart to finish up. The wash was somewhat cloudy, squeezed it off the grain only yesterday so it settled some but not completely. No signs of scorching whatsoever. For the spirit run I expect Ill be down around 2000W give or take.

All said, I couldnt be happier. No propane expense, fumes, door open when its 10F out, just the hum of the element doing its thing and the fan on the controller box keeping things cool. Also ran all the way down to 10%, ended up with 2.7g right at 30% avg.

Cheers.

Congrats.

I think you will be closer to 1000w for your spirit run. Give or take.

[corene1]

Thanks for the wiring diagram. I am thinking of putting in an amp meter also. probably don't need to as I should be able to do the calculations with voltage draw,but I amstill a little hazy on electrics. Thanks again for all the help.

[Jimbo]

I made you a chart . Am meters are more of a pain cause there's a shunt to wire in. Not the end of the world tho.

[Halfbaked]

This is what mine looks like. The part I am not pleased with is it is 12 volt so I had to get a 110 to 12 volt converter. Can't tell you whether I like it or no cause I have not put it together yet. My thinking when I did it is I could put every number down on paper and it would be accurate where ever I was.

[Due51]

Thanks for the thread Jimbo. I've read as many threads on electric conversion as I could find and my head was spinning. I live in Michigan and didn't want to use a turkey fryer-type propane burner with my keg and Boka. I am somewhat clumsy and envision a disaster waiting to happen. Your thread has helped me immensely.

I ordered the SCR controller and will get the coupling and element next. I still have some questions:
1) do you have a picture of your coat hanger coil and rubber electrical tape enclosure for your element?
2) How did you ground out the box with the SCR?
3) I'm still unclear on how to wire in a fan.

Sorry if these are repetitive. I've literally spent this entire work day (plus with a few others) reading on this subject. I fear the unknown when it comes to something as critical as 220volt electricity.

Thanks again.
Due

[Jimbo]

Thanks Due, yes you need Due diligence when horsin with high voltage.

I dont understand your first question, rubber electrical tape enclosure for the element? wassat? There are pictures in the original post I made here. It shows the element and the box.

The box is grounded with a screw through thebox, ground lugs on all the neccesary wires and nuts to hold it all tight. See bottom left corner in the 2nd picture.

The fan is wired exactly as shown in the wiring diagram just below to a 12V power supply. The power supply is wired to Hot1 and Neutral (to make 120V), the output is 12V and powers the fan and voltmeters.

[Due51]

My apologies. It just re-read page 1 and it was S-cackalacky who fashioned a wire hanger and rubber insulating tape to cover the end of the element where the wires attach.

Thanks again.

[marshrunner757]

Jumbo, what size wire are you using? I got my SCR in and those terminals look awful small. Also, are you using single or multi strand wire?

[Jimbo]

The terminal blocks on those cheap Chinese SCR's are too narrow to accept a standard 10 guage ring lug. I had to grind the edges of the ring lugs to fit. The wiring is mostly 10AWG except for the stretch from the breaker to the box which is 8AWG. All wiring is multi strand.

[Due51]

I have a question about home wiring:
(If this hijacks the thread, let me know and I'll create a new thread)
I have 8ga wire going from a double pole 40amp breaker at the box, right over my brew station, on its way to the A/C compressor. What if I cut that wire and installed a 220v socket on the end leading to the box and a male plug end on the wire leading to the compressor? Then I could unplug the compressor and plug in my 5500w heating element when I want to distill.

Thoughts?

[marshrunner757]

The terminal blocks on those cheap Chinese SCR's are too narrow to accept a standard 10 guage ring lug. I had to grind the edges of the ring lugs to fit. The wiring is mostly 10AWG except for the stretch from the breaker to the box which is 8AWG. All wiring is multi strand.

Thanks Jimbo

[rad14701]

I have a question about home wiring:
(If this hijacks the thread, let me know and I'll create a new thread)
I have 8ga wire going from a double pole 40amp breaker at the box, right over my brew station, on its way to the A/C compressor. What if I cut that wire and installed a 220v socket on the end leading to the box and a male plug end on the wire leading to the compressor? Then I could unplug the compressor and plug in my 5500w heating element when I want to distill.

Thoughts?

Theoretically, yes...

[S-Cackalacky]

My apologies. It just re-read page 1 and it was S-cackalacky who fashioned a wire hanger and rubber insulating tape to cover the end of the element where the wires attach.

Thanks again.

Sorry, I just saw this and will try to respond. There are probably much better methods than using the coiled wire hanger. You can find non-metalic wire stress relievers on ebay, or you could use a small juction box to house the wiring connections on the element. With the method I used with the wire coat hanger, there's always the danger of it coming into contact with the element terminals and causing a short. I very carefully wrapped the wiring and terminals with the rubber insulating tape before putting on the coiled coat hanger. and then applied the same rubber tape over the full length of the coil. Although, if I had it to do over again, I would probably use the small junction box method.

The tape - I bought at Lowe's. It's like rubber and has a backing that you have to peel away when you use it. You apply it like you would regular electrical tape, but it bonds together and becomes a solid piece and acts as an insulator. Sorry, I don't remember the brand name. You will find it in the same electrical isle section with the electrical tape. I'm sure you would find it a most any hardware store.

S-C

[Due51]

Just bought a 1" stainless coupler and had my customer drill a hole and TIG weld it in for me at no charge. Of course, I dropped off Lions tickets, a half gallon of booze, McLures spicy Bloody Mary mix, and Saunders Hot Fudge as a Christmas gift, so we'll call it even. Ha.

[bellybuster]

Just bought a 1" stainless coupler and had my customer drill a hole and TIG weld it in for me at no charge. Of course, I dropped off Lions tickets, a half gallon of booze, McLures spicy Bloody Mary mix, and Saunders Hot Fudge as a Christmas gift, so we'll call it even. Ha.

Sounds like he did a really, really good job.

[xbwqs78]

Any thoughts on using this for a connector

HEX BUSHING 150# 304 STAINLESS 11/2 X 1 NPT <786WH

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HEX-BUSHING-150 ... 518f23d4e7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cut a hole thread it on and then silver solder it?

[bellybuster]

I'm sure that'll work. If I were to do mine again I'd use these
http://www.brewhardware.com/fittings/120-spuds

[xbwqs78]

Sold, that is what I will go with. Thanks Belly!!

[Jimbo]

Dont bother with those blue backlit chinese voltmeters I posted. Mounted them up today. At full voltage they measure fine, as the voltage drops they are not even close at 170V (measured on my expensive Fluke meter) they read 118. They are way off everywhere but full voltage and zero.

I spent a couple hours cutting the holes in the box, now I got meters mounted up that are pretty when lit up but worth 2 shits for reading voltage.

Damn this, I think Ill pour a drink or 3 and order a pizza.

[sambedded]

as the voltage drops they are not even close at 170V (measured on my expensive Fluke meter) they read 118. They are way off everywhere but full voltage and zero.

It's because your Fluke shows True RMS voltage but that "blue" shows average of the rectified waveform. They calibrated to show same voltage as True RMS but only for sine waveform. Since output from Phase Angle controller has sine waveform only on full power you will always see a difference n reading.
All voltmeters under $20-$30 and even many more expensive ones will give you the same wrong reading.

[Jimbo]

No kidding. Well shit. Thanks Sambedded. I'll have to throw that on a scope and see what it looks like. I guess an ammeter is better for this afterall? Or will that reading be hosed too?

[sambedded]

you will have absolutely same issue with ammeters too. But i wouldn't worry to much. Yes, reding is incorrect but it consistent (unless your mains voltage doesn't fluctuate too much).

[Jimbo]

Well that was embarrasing. Seems I should have known that being an engineer, must have slept through that class. Ill blame too many years doing small signal stuff.

Here's a new chart. i used my fluke to measure true RMS then wrote down the avg readings youll get with the cheap meters.

Thanks again Sambedded.

[Jimbo]

for those you buying these cheap SCR's, note they need to be under load or they just show full output voltage regardless of knob setting. If you wire it up and check it dont panic. Put enough water in your boiler to cover the element and plug in the SCR. Everything will start working as expected.

Dont ask me how I know this.

[humbledore]

Ha. Well I don't have voltmeter so no worries there. I was going to ask on how you mounted the SCR's to the box. it looks like you use the large nut located on the pot and hung the whole SCR off that. Do you have concerns about weight? I am looking at mine and the way that pot is soldered to the PC board it looks kind of flimsy.

[Jimbo]

yes thats how I did it. Once you wire it all up with them heavy wires and get everything situated its fine.

Note along the front edge of the PCB by the pot, there are hot traces literally right up the edge of the board (dumbasses). If your box is metal put a plastic shim in there to insulate. I cut one from a soft plastic lid and drilled holes in it for the pot shafts to go through.

[humbledore]

Wow, that is a good catch. I will do that, thanks. I probably would have found out the hard way.

[Jimbo]

We call that a smoke test at work. At 240 prolly be a nice bang, you might even have pooped yourself a little.

I admit after i got this thing all wired up and checked the wiring 5 times over, I made the sign of the cross and closed my eyes before flippin the breaker.

[S-Cackalacky]

Wow, that is a good catch. I will do that, thanks. I probably would have found out the hard way.

I guess I was lucky I used a plastic box. But, I must say, getting that SCR mounted in the box was probably the biggest pita of my entire still build. My SCR was a very odd shape after replacing the heatsink with a larger CPU heatsink with it's own fan attached. The fan is actually a blower with a housing that's open on one side where the air exits. I had to position it in the box so that the exit vent of the housing was against the side of box. I drilled a pattern of small holes for the warm air to exit out of the box. With the replacement heatsink, the controller was too heavy to just hang it off the box using the pot (as you did). The fan housing rested on the bottom of the box and I put a couple of narrow, long machine bolts near the front to hold the controller securely in the box. The bolts come up through the bottom of the box and into the existing holes on the corners of the circuit board. I use 4 nuts on each bolt - one to hold the bolt to the box, 2 locked together under the circuit board to hold it at the correct height and one on top to secure the board to the bolt.

That and getting it wired up was a real pain. I have severe neuropathy in my hands and fingers which makes it difficult to even hold a screw driver. I'll be taking it apart at some point to upgrade the wiring from 12 guage to 10 guage - not looking forward to it.

BTW Jimbo - I'm real low tech. I didn't install a volt or amp meter. I have a sharpie mark on the box for where to set my pot knob for spirit runs. At 120V/1375W, I can crank it full open for stripping runs.

S-C

Posted while Jimbo was posting.