My Reflux Design

[HookLine]

some people are saying how are you going to controll the reflux

would this fix it

sorry i hacked toy grate pic up a bit

[manu de hanoi]

lol hush hush

[new_moonshiner]

nice (Shot). hook... my eyes are not what they used to be ...The Messiah, refluxer its is then ...wish we had one of those smiles that bow down .. I think we need one ..

[minime]

Do I need a thermometer in the head of my VM? Based on what I've read on VM's it would be more of a "nice to have" than something you absolutely need to operate the rig.

You can't run any reflux column accurately without a temp probe

use a gate valve instead of a ball valve, it's more accurate and has less plastic in it. Otherwise I feel a 1'' valve would be more suitable. Minime ? which diameter would you recommend for a 2'' column without reducer?

I used a 1/2 inch valve on the last column and it will go way too fast with that. A gate valve is a better option but much heavier and seriously more money. I like the lightest weight design hanging of the side of the column. That's also why I drop straight down and kick out at the bottom. It keeps everything in better balance. (lower center of gravity)

Without the ability to measure unrefluxed take off rate it is hard to determine the reflux ratio directly and this makes it more difficult to operate other than experimentally

I've never measured R/R. To me it is one of those theoretical things that are nice to know but have very little value to the actual operation. When making neutral I simply go with 100% temperature control. If the temperature is stable I know the product is also. Running on propane also presents the problem of never knowing your actual power input. That's why VM works so well for me. There's only one thing you need to know and that is temperature.
During operation of a VM column you will be well into the reduced output stage before the temperature moves at all. On LM column the temperature starts to climb immediately in the reduced output stage (mine did anyway) because the takeoff rate remains the same and there is less reflux.
Don't know if you guys noticed in the showdown threadhttp://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow how quickly i abandoned the Bok head and started playing with VM. There is no comparison in ease of operation for someone like me. I like running right on the edge with little if any extra reflux so it is IMMEDIATELY apparent when conditions change in the column. The VM column gives you lots of cushion time to adjust R/R before you're in trouble. I haven't had to re-distill a single drop {because of tails contamination) with the VM column. That used to happen to me all the time with my offset LM. In fact I am so confident I don't bother to change out to smaller containers until VERY late in the run.
@new_moonshiner Right on........this has been a great thread.........glad nobody got offended. We all played nice

[pintoshine]

On LM column the temperature starts to climb immediately in the reduced output stage (mine did anyway) because the takeoff rate remains the same and there is less reflux.

This is because you were running the takeoff rate too close to the full takeoff rate from the beginning. If you are running straight molasses wash you would have been making rum flavored spirits running this way. The stacking capability of either of these still depends on a slow take off rate compared to the max takeoff rate. Once you are able to determine the proper reflux rate for really clean ethanol, then you will have a set and forget situation with either.
This is the reason that my ss 3" runs at about the same rate as your smaller diameter copper 3" VM. We weren't comparing apples to apples. If I were to open mine up and run close to full output I can get 12L/hour of 95% but I wouldn't like drinking it. But running at a known 9 to 1 reflux rate, I can distinctly tell where the heads end and whee the tails begin. I know I am making absolutely neutral alcohol in the heart run, and not just high proof fuel grade alcohol.
So since now you have told us the full story of why you don't like the LM design, maybe you should revisit your comparison, run each for high quality. From being able to measure your reflux rate from the LM head you will be able to assume the proper take off rate from the VM head. It isn't about speed it is about quality and ease of use to me. I bet then you won't be able to tell the difference in speed or quality.
Oh by the way, a 72 hour run is not unheard of when I run a 54Lx45% load of stripped molasses. This is foul stuff to clean up.

[minime]

I know I am making absolutely neutral alcohol in the heart run, and not just high proof fuel grade alcohol.

Aw come on Pint. 95.6 surely works for fuel but I'll stack my fuel against anything available from the store. I've said all along that dead neutral is just not required for my palette.

If I were to open mine up and run close to full output I can get 12L/hour of 95%

Wow

So since now you have told us the full story of why you don't like the LM design, maybe you should revisit your comparison, run each for high quality. .

I know right where the dead neutral point is. 2 Liters per hour is dead neutral but it's still only 95.6. I just don't need it that clean. For a guy who likes rum and whiskey why do you need to have it dead neutral??

If you are running straight molasses wash you would have been making rum flavored spirits running this way.

Momma has come to rely on it

BTW pint, my inverted funnel column has 60 inches of packing. I know it doesn't sound like a big difference but my offset was only 42 inches of packing and there is a very discernible difference in the quality of the alcohol running at high output. All in all I'm very satisfied with what I've achieved and at no point did I try and mislead anyone as to my intention. I've cautioned several times that I like to run hard and fast.
This is a terrific thread. Thanks to X7 for starting it.

[pintoshine]

Aw come on Pint. 95.6 surely works for fuel but I'll stack my fuel against anything available from the store. I've said all along that dead neutral is just not required for my palette.

Yes, I agree that your product is as clean or cleaner than store bought. Unfortunately, I have developed a taste for ultra clean vodka. I wouldn't even argue personal preference with you but I do believe than there are a lot on here after that ultimately clean refreshing flavor that smells and tastes like the purest Canadian, possibly Norwegian for those in Minnesota , snowfall with a hint of alcohol.
This has been one of my passions for 20 years. I have almost gotten there.

at no point did I try and mislead anyone as to my intention. I've cautioned several times that I like to run hard and fast.

I guess I missed that part or it just didn't sink in that you were running for speed rather than purity.
Yes your 95.6 might be better than any store bought. As I have mentioned before, a .01 % of heads and a .01% of tails can still be at 95.6% and taste really bad to some, especial to the ones such as I, who are sensitive to the thiols and sulfides. My wife can't even smell methyl mercaptan but the smell is putrid to me.
I'm sorry I really was under the impression that you were refluxing at a high rate for high purity. My mistake. I would say to those who are only in it for the bulk quantity ignore me completely, and those who are after the holy grail of Canadian Snowfall Vodka, there is a lesson here.

This is a terrific thread. Thanks to X7 for starting it.

I agree and I think other are paying lots of attention judging from the hit count on the pictures. I am glad we hammered it out that our goals were different and our rating criteria were also different.

Is your valve on your VM horizontal or vertical?

[minime]

Is your valve on your VM horizontal or vertical?

Vertical, I usually equalize 20 to 30 minutes and it only accumulates 15 to 20 ml during that time. Once the branch is up to temp it doesn't condense anything there until you open the valve. I like to keep everything close to the column for balance. I have to tear down after every run and re-assemble for each run so balance is important to me. These big columns as unwieldy and I'm not getting any younger.
Wish I had a dedicated still shed but that's not likely going to happen anytime soon.

and those who are after the holy grail of Canadian Snowfall Vodka, there is a lesson here.

Absolutely, when I first lit up the inverted funnel column it was running 2 liters per hour max. Pretty amazing product but for me it's a compromise I'm not willing to make.




GladWe'reOnTheSamePageNowMinime

[xx7777xx]

Back at you guys with another design question. I was reading this thread (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =16&t=8448) about making a condenser with more cooling area. It looks like I could have a much more efficient condenser without using that much more metal. Any thoughts about a design like the one below as opposed to the one I posted at the start of this thread? The condenser specs would be:
Outer Cooling pipe - 2"
Vapor pipe - 1"
inner cooling pipe - 1/2"

[jody]

You make a run with this yet xx7777xx?

I'm going over designs, and was curious if you made out as well as minime and punkin?

Also, noticed in the final picture(in a different thread) you had a screw off condenser. Any reason?

[xx7777xx]

Jody:

I have made a few runs and have had great success with my setup. I added a removable reflux condenser so I can easily convert from VM still to pot still operations. If you look here at my final design and build photos you can see all the design diagrams that describe how the conversion works:
http://s410.photobucket.com/albums/pp18 ... d%20Build/

You might also want to take a look at this thread as there is another member who is in the process of building a similarly designed VM.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =15&t=9497

x7

[jody]

Man, sometimes I hate this site. You think you got it all figured out, then nope...gotta make some mods to convert it to a pot still too.

I saw the latest pics you had posted(I don't think it was there last time I looked). Finished product(s) look really good!!

How did you link your tri-clamp in the middle of the column? Copper wire/flaring technique?

[xx7777xx]

Jody:

Thanks for compliments, I'm real happy with how things have turned out.

To add the joint, I braised an SS ferrule on each side of the joint. I prefer using SS for joints because of the extra strength you get. I'm not sure of your exact setup, but if your valve is connected to your leibig as is mine, don't forget to add a safety release (see cork on top of pot still head).

-x7

[TopDog]

How many scrubbers did you pack your column with? Great set up looks like it can get the job done!
Hey anyone know of a cheap place to get copper scrubbers?

[xx7777xx]

How many scrubbers did you pack your column with? Great set up looks like it can get the job done!
Hey anyone know of a cheap place to get copper scrubbers?

I used a a roll of copper mesh to pack my column. If you're in the US here is where I got my packing:

http://www.brewhaus.com/Copper-Mesh-P947C94.aspx

[jody]

How many scrubbers did you pack your column with? Great set up looks like it can get the job done!
Hey anyone know of a cheap place to get copper scrubbers?

I used a a roll of copper mesh to pack my column. If you're in the US here is where I got my packing:

http://www.brewhaus.com/Copper-Mesh-P947C94.aspx

from the website...
"sufficient for a 2'' x 36'' column."

Would you say that is accurate? If so, I'm guessing two of them worked fine for you?

I picked up some scrubbers, but I didn't even need a magnet to figure out they were crap...the knife I cut the little piece into with with was pulling them in

[punkin]

That would be pretty accurate, two packs from brewhause are more than enough for a 60" column.

[olddog]

Which type of head coil would be better? double coil 1/4" or single coil 1/2"?

[rad14701]

If you can coil 1/2" inside 2", more power to you... Most go with single or dual 1/4" because it's easier - and less costly when you end up with a kink... Even a single 1/4" with a coldfinger down the middle would suffice...

[snuffy]

1" finger inside 1 1/4" jacketed with 1 1/2". Eats 2400W element for breakfast and room to spare.



This is before the 1 1/2" jacket was added.

[razorsharpedge]

Hi xx7777xx,
I'm building a convertible VM/pot still very similar to yours.

I'm trying to figure out where to put my VM valve so that it can be used for spirit runs but removed or safely by passed during stripping. I was thinking a safety pressure valve in the cap of pot still head or possibly a couple of unions to make the valve removable.
In your design it looks as though the VM valve is part of the liebig condenser assembly and attaches to the pot still. Is there some sort of safety feature to prevent pressure build up should the valve accidentally be closed during stripping and pot stilling?
Best regards,
Razorsharpedge

[razorsharpedge]

In your design it looks as though the VM valve is part of the liebig condenser assembly and attaches to the pot still. Is there some sort of safety feature to prevent pressure build up should the valve accidentally be closed during stripping and pot stilling?
Best regards,
Razorsharpedge

Jody:

I'm not sure of your exact setup, but if your valve is connected to your leibig as is mine, don't forget to add a safety release (see cork on top of pot still head).

-x7

Ooops.
My bad.
Note to self: Always reread thread before posting question.
Sorry for wasting anyone's time.
Razorsharpedge