electric keg help

[eternalfrost]

im planning to upgrade my bokakob into a full blown electric keg. the main reason is getting the bigger boiler size. secondly, with the extra height it would no longer fit under the roof space so going electric to save height plus the added safety.

now ive looked through here pretty well but can only find sort of second hand references to electric kegs. more like people telling about their output rather then clear guides to building them etc. the most complete one ive found is here http://elricko.741.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

he recommends 2 1500W elements; one with a 1500W Lutron dimmer switch

he also recommends McMaster-Carr for buying parts. I order from them all the time through work so I trust them. I cant seem to find the proper female sockets to fit the NPSM heating elements. anyone have any online places to get them? or do they carry them at hope depot etc? i havent checked there yet.

also, is there anywy possible to do it without having to weld anything?

so basically im looking for anyone who has experience with it:
-what heating elements did you use?
-how did you attatch them?
-what insulation?

[rustyone]

You should grab a copy of the ebook "the compleat distiller" you fill find that dimmer switches should be avoided at all costs. They provide a workable solution for controlling the the boiler. They cover most of your questions actually, so it would be a good read for you

[pintoshine]

I can help a bit with the hardware part. Here is the instructions for a weldless water heater adapter solution.

WeldlessHeaterMount.pdf

(38.4 KiB) Downloaded 1319 times

I hope this helps. I have used this many times without any issues. Many of my friends have pots (ss stock pots) built this way.
Let me know if it is helpful. I generally used the bolt ends that are left hanging to mount a plastic box with the back cut out to cover the whole thing. Left over bolt threads can be cut to length.

[eternalfrost]

thanks thats just what i was looking for on the weld-less connection pinto.

I have a fairly solid background in electronics and I still do not understand why a rheostat or potentiometer (aka dimmer switch) would cause any problems in regulating the heaters power using a simple voltage divider circuit. I downloaded a copy of 'the compleat distiller' which gives only a vague description of 'phase interference'.

i dont see how it is at all possible. later on in the section where he discribes his homemade switches, he tells you to wire two heaters in series to reduce the power (which it indeed will). however, the whole reason that works is you are doubling the circuit resistance (i.e. adding another resistor) which is the same exact thing as putting a potentiometer into the circuit.

now maybe problems could happen for some complex variable voltage supply where it is actively controlled, but a simple resistor in series should cause nothing strange to happen and be perfectly fine given that it is rated to handle the current you will be drawing etc.

admitedly, i dont know as much about AC and work more with DC and digital electronics so its entirely possible im missing some exotic effect due to AC effects. but even in such a case his own switches work on the same principle, adding resistance to the circuit, and would have the same faults. i would really love a proper explanation.

[eternalfrost]

hey pinto i stumbled across this post of yours through a google search (i never can seem to find anything through the in-house site search )
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... a&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow



this would work right?

[pintoshine]

this will work on a 120vac circuit. I found that the 600w dimmer is needed though. They are about $9.95
This would let you control a 2200w 120 vac element real nice.

[eternalfrost]

i just had one of those duh moments...

what if i just got a 5500W 240V element for the heatup phase then switched it to a 120V line for the distilling phase. this would give 1375W is this accepctable? i could also get 4500W 240V / 1125W120V element

i know its kind of unique to ech still but is that at least in the ball park? i could then add some voltge controller onto the 120V line if the output needed to be further reduced

[rad14701]

Several members have used the 240V/120V combination, eternalfrost... I haven't tried it, personally, but with the right element you might get acceptable performance...

[Dnderhead]

Pint I'm not into designing circuits, but if you moved the lead on resistor to neutral could it then run on 220/240V ?

[eternalfrost]

so i picked up a 5500W 240V low-density element today. i also got one of the square flange bolt on sockets so i shouldn't have to worry about welding anything.

what would be the best way to drill the holes through the side? I need one about an inch wide and 4 about 1/4 inch. from what i have heard cutting through SS kegs can be a real bitch...

Ill start by switching to 120V and 1375W for the simmering. see how it goes and if adding further voltage limitations is necessary.

[Dnderhead]

If it was me id use hole saw, low speed, lots of lube

[HookLine]

And apply as much pressure as you safely can.

[Hogmauler]

I found some stainless half couplings at morebeer.com

here https://morebeer.com/search?search=h632" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

i screwed in the heating element just fine, but it has not been tested for leaks.

[drone]

Anyone got a step by step on building the power controller?
I visualize what to build from the diagrams

[maoule]

If it was me id use hole saw, low speed, lots of lube

If you have access to it, 30mm countersink bit works perfect. A uni-bit is not a bad option either. And for sure, go slow.

[drone]

thanks pintoshine.

Why a kit and not sell it assembled?

Why could we not use a PID and SSR, maybe something like this:
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page ... ducts_id=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page ... ucts_id=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[pintoshine]

Its some old lawyer crap about liability and such. If you assemble it and fry yourself or burn down your house, it isn't my fault.

But seriously. It is about customs and CE and UL listing.

[Dnderhead]

good idea pint -- maybe some one whould do that with a still, hears the parts, "assemble at own risk" and it whould not be a still until assembled

[Adverse Effects]

i dont meen to step on anyones toes but i just found thes today

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/sear ... &R=0655638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

you can get them in 5 , 10 or 15 AMP units

i got the 10 AMP one and will be giving it a tryout in the next week or so

[pintoshine]

no hard feelings at all. I just wanted to point out that their largest unit at 25A is more than $230
The kit is designed to run at 40A with one cycle peaks of 400A and 1 second surges of 100A.
I designed it to be extra heavy duty to provide a long trouble free lifetime.
Besides the kits are fun and you can always find someone who like to put stuff like that together.

[drone]

Sorry but I still don't understand why people don't use a PID?
Can someone explain?

[eternalfrost]

Sorry but I still don't understand why people don't use a PID?
Can someone explain?

in distilling, the temperature of the liquid in the boiler will remain constant at the boiling point of the liquid (basic chemistry) what you are really trying to control is the vapor speed through the column of the still. this is dependant on the amount of vapor being produced which depends on the wattage input of your heater.

technically, a PID controler COULD work if you could somehow measure the vapor speed and use that as the input for the feedback loop.

but realistically thats just not possible, so the simplest way is to just make some sort of direct power controller for the heater and manually fiddle with it till you find what level works best for you rig

[drone]

Whats the max Watts your 240 VAC kit can handle pint?

[eternalfrost]

Whats the max Watts your 240 VAC kit can handle pint?

a supply is rated by the current it can handle, not the power of what it will be supplying.
what makes a supply break down is its components overheating and basically melting. the components heat up when they draw power.
power is given by P=I^2*R since each component has a inherent,set, resistance what determines how much power it draws(and therefore how hot it gets) is the current flowing through it.

so you will have to figure out how much current your element will draw using basic ohm's laws. P=IV

for example a 1000W on 120V will be 1000=I*120 I=8.3Amp

if im not mistaken Pints controllers are for 20A or 40A

[drone]

So 2 - 4500 W elements on 240V would be close (37.5 A) to reaching the limit on a 40 A

[pintoshine]

The main alternistor will dissipate about 40W when driven at that load. It will get pretty warm but will do it with the heatsink I provide as ling as it is out in open air. Like I said they have plenty overhead. The 40 Amp rating is the rms(continuous) rating. There is a small amount of forward resistance but it is small. This small forward resistance is what creates the heat.

[drone]

Maybe I would be better to just have the bottom one on the dial and turn the other one off after boilup

[pintoshine]

Yes that sounds like an excellent plan.

[eternalfrost]

Maybe I would be better to just have the bottom one on the dial and turn the other one off after boilup

ummmm yes! two 4500W elements! that is some massive power buddy. you will only need like 10% of that after you get heated up...
trust me i have a single 5500W element and it is almost scary how strong it is...

do you even have two separate 240V lines to run them?? thats something that an average house wont have next to eachother...

[MooQu]

I can help a bit with the hardware part. Here is the instructions for a weldless water heater adapter solution.

I hope this helps. I have used this many times without any issues. Many of my friends have pots (ss stock pots) built this way.
Let me know if it is helpful. I generally used the bolt ends that are left hanging to mount a plastic box with the back cut out to cover the whole thing. Left over bolt threads can be cut to length.

This heater mount isn't stainless steel. Will that be a problem?????