Methenal level

[raw]

Hello All,
New to creating my own spirits. I wanted to start small so I make a pot still from a 6qt pressure cooker with 3/8 copper tubing. (got if from on line). I fermented a batch of 3parts corn meal 3 parts sugar and 1 part 2 row malt. Started at 1.065 SG and finished up around .950 (according to my hydrometer). Was able to produce a good clear spirit that measured out at 55% and tasted pretty good. I am worried about what my methenol content may be. When I ran my still I did not get anything from my condenser until I hit the 174F mark on my thermometer (which I have 2 one in the lid of the pot and one at the top of the condenser). I tossed the first 20ML away and collected the rest until I hit the 195F mark then I stopped collecting (ended up with about 12oz). I wanted to test it to see if I was collecting everything properly so I put 4oz in a small pot and heated it slowly, I had no boil at 147F but started to boil a little at 168F, when I hit 174-175F I has a starting to get a good boil. So based on what I have done I would assume that my methenol levels would be very low. Any suggestions or comments?

[Tater]

Toss first 1/4 cup product for every 5 gallons wash your doing.should take of your worries.Run still slow as possible for best separation.

[raw]

Thanks Tater,
Just to clarify, if I use the method of discarding the first 1/4 cup for every 5 gallons of wash. So with a 6qt wash and I discard the first couple of ounces I am safe. Whats your thoughts on why I am not getting anything from the condenser until I hit the 145F mark. Is there just that little methenol is the wash?
I will try to heat a little slower and hold my temp at the 173-180F longer to see what happens.

[Mud]

Hi Raw,
I see you've just started posting. Welcome to the forum.

The questions you've asked are pretty basic and can be answered by doing some reading. Take a look at tater's signature for web addresses. There are also stickies in each forum and a search feature. You need to understand what's happening in your still for safety reasons, and then for quality reasons. You'll be better off for it.

-Mud

[rad14701]

First, welcome to the forums, raw...

Second, I hope to hell you're not heating pure spirits on an open flame to test boiling temperatures... You need to follow some safety guidelines or somebody's gonna get hurt...

Third, as Mud mentioned, Read, read, read...

Sounds like you're well on your way... Have fun but be safe...

[raw]

Nothing on an open flame, I am doing everythng very safely. When I heated my distilled spirits I used a hot plate with a small pot and regulated the heat very slowy in a controlled enviornment until I reached my target temp. I have been doing alot of reading which has gotten me this far. The reason for my question on methenol levels was due to the numerous articles I have read. Some articles indicate that you can produce a methenol level that is dangerous and others that state as long as your tossing the first part of your run your ok. I have had a few shots so far and I am not blind so I can assume what I am doing so far is correct.

[grunger]

did you make any cuts for heads or tails?

[rad14701]

You quite honestly cannot generate enough methanol to be dangerous, percentage-wise... You're gonna feel the effects of too much ethanol more so than too much methanol from a grain mash... Big headache, perhaps... Adverse health concern, doubtful... Just make adequate cuts and you should be fine...

[blanikdog]

What rad said, raw. A lot of these stories are from a bygone era and were part of a scare campaign. As long as you discard the first 100mil or so you won't go blind. There are better ways of going blind.

blanik

[junkyard dawg]

You can do ferments that produce lots of methanol, but proper distillation should take care of that. Don't worry too much about those temps. They are fairly meaningless as far as methanol goes. If you want to get the best separation of good clean ethanol and the other nasty stuff like methanol, run slow, make generous cuts and run again...and make more cuts....

[ZAXBYC]

There are better ways of going blind.

lol and those would be?


I read somewhere (over a year ago so can't remember where) but basically it boiled down to having to drink some 40odd litres of the worse distillate (at full %, not watered down), no cuts etc. before menthanol would reach toxic levels.... hmm might have been the parent site actually!

Needless to say:

a/ I would be suprised if you could actually drink something that vile
b/ I would be more worried about ethanol poisoning first

backing up rad and blank, I get it all the time when I talk to my friends: "will I go blind?" they ask... sheesh I'm not blaind yet and I don't touch commerical stuff any more! Probably more methanol in a carton of apple juice than there will be in you distillate

Me

[punkin]

There are better ways of going blind.

lol and those would be?


I

backing up rad and blank, I get it all the time when I talk to my friends: "will I go blind?" they ask... sheesh I'm not blind yet

Me

I'd say he's talking about masturbation, Z.










Can'tIDoItALittleBitAndWearGlassesPunkin

[ZAXBYC]

LMAO

[raw]

Thanks Everyone,
I feel alot more comforatble now after actually conversing with people that have been doiong this and have some knowledge. I produce such small qtys to begin with it did not make much sence that I could produce methenol enough to get hurt. From a 6qt pot thats procuing a total of 12-14 oz I only collect the middle run and end up keeping about 8-10 oz. I have been following everyones advice and doing alot of reading and I feel I have the basic understanding. Once I feel that I have mastered the small 6qt pot I plan on moving up to a 5 gallon pot but before I do that I plan on adding a thumper into my 6qt to gain a little more first hand experience.

Again, Thanks for the guidance.
RAW

[Husker]

There are better ways of going blind.

lol and those would be?


I

backing up rad and blank, I get it all the time when I talk to my friends: "will I go blind?" they ask... sheesh I'm not blind yet

Me

I'd say he's talking about masturbation, Z.

I thought that was for growing palm hair? Guess it is a dual purpose pleasure, lol.

H.

[BoomTown]

I see that this is an old thread, but my curiosity is growing about Methenal. Especially in beer. I mean commercial beer. I've been trying to refocus on developing an AG mash reading about how beer is mashed in a grain fermenting then syphoned off and bottled. Doesn't seem to be much of an effort, or concern for allowing the methenal to separate and be discarded. Does that mean that beers keep their methenal alcohol in the beverage?

[Tater]

I see that this is an old thread, but my curiosity is growing about Methenal. Especially in beer. I mean commercial beer. I've been trying to refocus on developing an AG mash reading about how beer is mashed in a grain fermenting then syphoned off and bottled. Doesn't seem to be much of an effort, or concern for allowing the methenal to separate and be discarded. Does that mean that beers keep their methenal alcohol in the beverage?

yes as do wines

[BoomTown]

Does that mean that beers keep their methenal alcohol in the beverage?[/quote] yes as do wines[/quote]

Thanks Tator, guess I've drunk my last beer!

[Durace11]

The thing here is yes they have it left in, as in all fermented beverages, but it's in such small amounts your body hardly notices unless you over indulge, like with all alcohol. The trick with distilling is because of seperation we can cut it out of the product completely, or nearly completely depending on our method of cutting the product. And we almost have to cut it out because not only does distilling seperate the different chemicals but it increases their strength also so the amount becomes more concentrated, just like the alcohol.

I think it was also mentioned once that the cure for methanol poisoning is ethanol. So, I'm sure what little methanol you intake in beer/wine is offset by the much larger amount of ethanol you intake along with it. Of course, it still has all the heads and tails, just in smaller amounts.