Can't get oaking right

[olddog]

I have read posts by you guys about the flavours and enhancements you get from oaking. I have been experimenting for quite some time now, and fail to get the success that you seem to obtain.
I have tried thin pieces, thick pieces, oven light and dark char, chared with a propane torch, long infusion, short infusion, but I still do not get the success you report.
I keep the alcohol at 65ABV, but I find the finished taste still tastes like an old stick, without the vanilla background reported.
I usually tint my alcohol with distillers caramel, as if I leave the oak to achieve the right colour, it seems to produce off tastes.

Whatthe hell am I doing wrong

[kiwistiller]

you might want to try a side by side of different ABVs on the same wood with the same white dog. will help you find what taste you want, the different strengths bring out different flavours. Also, where are you getting your oak from? I was amazed at the side by side comparison I did with virgin chips, semi depleted bourbon barrel bits, and ex wine barrel sticks. the ex wine barrel is superior in flavour and colour, and the nose is incredible. (experiment was done in DWWG to keep the base flavour simple)

[Hawke]

Whatthe hell am I doing wrong

Too damn pickey
Really can't say. I use 3 to 4 sticks, around 5/8" square by 5 inches long, per gallon.
Cycle between sealed and airing,(shake the heck outta it between) until all of the sticks have dropped to the bottom of the jug. It usually takes 4 to 6 weeks for this to happen. There will be several phases of good and bad flavor, before the sticks all sink.

PS: as Kiwi said, I am using staves from a red wine barrel. and it has been working very well.

[olddog]

My sticks are about the same size, they are from a "World Cooperage" wine barrel which is American oak that have been used for red wine. I can leave long enough to achieve colour, but it then gets an overoaked taste, not nice. I have experimented with 1 stick to 4 sticks, but still cannot achieve a good taste.

[Hawke]

The last stuff I oaked using my method, was very close to Pendleton, (a top shelf Canadian blend) at least to me. That is the major problem when we talk aging, everyones taste is different, and no 'one way' can solve it.
I think different 'barrel' strengths may be what you need to try. Lower proof will bring out more wood flavor, Higher proof seems to bring out more vanillans, but also can bring out some of the bitter tannins.
Unfortunately, it's a real crap shoot, until you find the magic that works for you.

[Aces High]

I've been using french oak chips from the brewshop (only because I haven't got around to taking up Olddogs generous offer of a couple of barrel staves) but I put enough in the bottom to just cover the 2L flagons I age my UJSM in. They're fairly thinly sliced chips (around a mm thick) and virgin french oak

I have been giving them a mild toasting using a low setting on the propane torch. Im not sure about the vinilla flavours etc (as I am not sure I am good enough to taste them all), but after 2 months I have a beautiful oak colour without the overpowering oak taste. It starts oaky, but that seems to retreat pretty quick and smooths out after only 2 months.

[Barney Fife]

Let's back up a bit.... Has all of your oak come from the same source? And what is that source?

[Usge]

Try these: http://morebeer.com/view_product/18777/ ... d_%2B_1_lb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I can guarantee you'll get vanilla nose with them if you start out anywhere near 120-130 proof.

If you are using uncovered, or coffee filter covered, jar....startin out at 120 proof or so..within a month you'll be down to 95 proof and about 1/3 less volume you started with — it usually looses abv as it evaporates.

[Hawke]

If you are using uncovered, or coffee filter covered, jar....startin out at 120 proof or so..within a month you'll be down to 95 proof and about 1/3 less volume you started with — it usually looses abv as it evaporates.

I haven't noticed that big of drops in mine. I start at 130 proof. By the end of a months cycle, it is still over 125 proof.

[Usge]

Dont' know why...mines been like that for a while. Could be partly the weather. Could be the top of the jar too wide (it's a flower vase with a coffee filter on top). Lost nearly half the volume too. The other one I have going was full has already dropped noticeably in volume and it's only been a week. (it was near top full..had to be careful with it...now it's down under the rim an inch). Either than or the dang mice are sneaking my hooch and waterin it back

[myerfire]

The last run I did, I put in wide mouth mason jars and a few old whiskey bottles and covered with coffee filters. I got busy and didn't get around to diluting for about 8 days and was surprised how the ABV dropped in the mason jars, but not much in the small mouthed whiskey botles.
myerfire

[Usge]

them dang alkihaulic mice can't get in them little ones

[goose eye]

when ole boys was young they tryed that - it hadta of evaperated - with there pa when they broke a jug an tryed to make it up with alittle likker out of em all toped off with water. they never done that again. that was when they learned
manin up from the start was easyer on your ass cause everytime someone complained that got that likker they got a whoppin.

so im tole

[Burning Man]

when ole boys was young they tryed that - it hadta of evaperated - with there pa when they broke a jug an tryed to make it up with alittle likker out of em all toped off with water. they never done that again. that was when they learned
manin up from the start was easyer on your ass cause everytime someone complained that got that likker they got a whoppin.

so im tole

Ima guessin that them ass whoppins was a big part of them ol boys education.

In todays world a politically correct moonshine outfit would have to give them ol boys a time out. I can't help but think the quality of the product would suffer because of it.

[blind drunk]

Hey olddog, how'd this work out for you? Any luck with aging sticks? Cheers, bd.

[olddog]

Sort of OK, I am experimenting with a batch at the moment. I have got plenty of hooch to drink so now I can experiment a bit. Currently I have 5 litres of UJSSM with a couple of small chunks of charred oak which have now sunk to the bottom after 7 days, I am going to leave the in there for a couple of months and see if it makes any difference. I usually use bigger sticks and leave to achieve colour and flavour which normally takes only a couple of weeks.

OD

[blind drunk]

I just put two toasted sticks in 2.5 liters of the same. Thinking of adding one charred as well. Never done any oaking so I'm curious. Thanks, bd.

[blanikdog]

Glad you started this thread, Old Dog. I have exactly the same problem. I've tried toasted, oak, dark toasted oak, brand spanking new oak from coopers and old wine barell staves. I believe that the old wine staves give me the best result, but I still over oak sometimes. Always handy for the 'not so fussy mates who visit. I oak at 66 / 65 abv - this vairiance may account for some of the problen.

I'll just have to pay more atttention and experiment.

blanik


This is stupid. My typing is shit. I spent more time fixing grammar - probably still bad - and slelling 'mistakes' in this post. I'm off too bed.

[Ayay]

I've been using oak chips on 55-65% for a while. I notice a sediment that comes from the chips. I oak on chips for a week, remove chips and filter, then a thin layer of sediment settles. I siphon into a new container before drinkin. The sediments go into another bottle for further settlin and then siphoned into the next run.

Could be the sediments?

[Tater]

Charred some likker in 7 gallon ss keg used oak bung as a stopper . likker was 140 proof when put in keg i I use white oak center cut out of piece dry firewood 11/2 in x 8 in or so .alligator charred on 2 sides toasted on sides where sticks layed beside each other on charcoal.(Ive used torch also and cant tell any difference) And used think it was 10 or 12 pieces. Also tossed in 10 or 12 pepper corns.Sat in shed thats got a loose floor with piece re barb under keg to make it shake a tad when walked by.Tasted it time or 2 during first few months and didn't think much of it . Forgot it for almost a year and when Checked it was 130 proof. Tempered it to 90ish proof and it was very well received by my drinking buddy's who like bourbons and other charred likkers.So Id say give it some time.

[blind drunk]

Wonder why it's fine to oak age wine at 12-14% and it works out fine and likker needs to be aged at 62% or so. Wondering out loud, bd.

[rad14701]

blanikdog, I'm sure your slelling is fine, and your spelling isn't too bad either... I sometimes wonder if I suffer from mad fingers disease with as many edits as I do some days... I think one thing and they type another...

[theholymackerel]

Wonder why it's fine to oak age wine at 12-14% and it works out fine and likker needs to be aged at 62% or so. Wondering out loud, bd.

But, it doesn't. Dependin' on what I'm makin' I'll age on oak at as low as 50% abv.

[blind drunk]

THM wrote -
But, it doesn't. Dependin' on what I'm makin' I'll age on oak at as low as 50% abv.

That's interesting. What's your ABV range? Ever go lower than 50 ABV?

[theholymackerel]

Yes I have, but I didn't like the results.

Some things dissolve into, or react to, water more, some to ethanol more. Any time I aged at 60% or higher, I didn't like the results, same as agin' under 50ish %. My sweet-spot is right around 55% (110 proof).

Experiment and find how the flavour changes and discover what you like best.

[LWTCS]

My sweet-spot is right around 55% (110 proof).

Experiment and find how the flavour changes and discover what you like best.

I'm gonna give that a shot and see.
I 've been going about 10 percentage points higher and been pretty happy thus far.
But I'm ready to get out of my comfort zone and grow a bit.

At least to help conclude what I don't prefer.

Thanx Holy

[kiwistiller]

I've got a ujsm spirit run on the cutting bench right now. I'm going to go and put samples down at different %s and charred vs toasted. Been wanting to do that experiment anyway, should be very interesting. will post results.

[LWTCS]

How long will you let it sleep for?

I have a tough time with any thing longer than a month what with thirst and such things.

Can I put in a request for some month old feed back?

Thanks
Larry

[kiwistiller]

I'll just grab some small sample jars on my way home, and leave it... until I need the jars for something else I guess What do you think, 50%, 55% 60% 65% 70% x charred & toasted? will be in small volumes, I'll cut some chunks off my normal oak sticks.

EDIT a month should be no trouble. will probably call it quits when I up and move cities in feb.

[LWTCS]

sounds great.
thanx