What did I do wrong?

[steveb]

Hello,

Last week I tried to make two sugar washes.

One was birdwatcher's with tomato paste and lemon juice. The other was the one including All Bran.

Both had OG's around 1.090

After a week, they're both around 1.04-1.05

Should I be expecting them to be below 1.00?

One issue is that they seemed to ferment at a lower temperature than I wanted (22C instead of around 30C)

I used Active Dry Yeast.

So, I guess my two questions are:

1) What did I do wrong do you think?

2) What should I do now to salvage the batches?

Thanks very much in advance for your thoughts!

Steve

[rednose]

Fact is that the yeast is working but slow.

This can have several reasons, one is cold and another that plays a big roll is the PH.

Do you know the PH?

I would give it some more days if you see bubbles or activity.

Joe

[steveb]

Thanks Joe.

I think the pH was 4.5 or so when I first checked.

I haven't seen any bubbles in the airlock.

I added some hydrated EC-1118 to see if that helps. It's started some bubbling.

I guess I'll have to wait and see. Too bad my bucket heater belt isn't raising the wash temperature high enough by itself. I wonder if an electric blanket would do better.

Steve

[Whitedog]

Bucket heater belt + insulating balnket is what I would try first.... slow fermentation is not necessarily a bad thing...

[rednose]

4.5 PH isn't bad to start a wash after adding the lemon juice.

Would be interesting where it's now, I usually end up with 3.4 to 3.8 when dry.

As I'm in the tropics I have more problems with the heat than with cold.

Anyhow, 22C is inside the range of a good temp for fermenting like old folks say.

[Bull Rider]

Just for clarification.

Your wash started at 1.090.

And it's now at "1.04-1.05"? As in 1.040-1.050?

or did you mean 1.004?

Thanks.

[mrhooch]

Ah, stuck fermentation...

I don't have much time to research this post, but I'll give what I "remembered" but not sure from which source I got it from.

The yeast is not the problem, EC-1118 will work up to 18%, but it is a yeast that doesn't like warmer temps like bakers yeast.

Lavlin has a good section on the characteristics of the yeast.

Back to what I "remembered", I remember reading that yeast by itself being a simple organism, can't create the B vitamins needed for reproduction and respiration (converting sugars to alcohols). So whatever your wash is, you need to make sure you have enough B vitamins in it to allow the yeast to reproduce.

Wineo's sugar wash calls for a 1/4 cup of bakers yeast, or 125 mls, which is about 25 packets of yeast. This by itself is enough to give enough B vitamins to get things going, and the initial population is large enough to get going.

I add a B complex vitamin to all my batches to avoid this problem. You can also use yeast hulls as they concentrate the B vitamins and are available in a variety of forms and names. Debittered brewers yeast...

Whitedog is right, slow fermentation is not such a bad thing, yeast will take some shortcuts and create longer chain alcohols when the temp is too high.

I found that at room temps, it takes 3 weeks from start to settled out at below 1.000.

Hooch.

[steveb]

Thanks Hooch. I didn't realize that the baker's yeast required the warmer temps and longer duration.

I'll get a B-12 and grind it up and add it in as well.

I've also bookmarked the Lavlin site.

Thanks again!

Steve

[blind drunk]

One thing I do is rack the wash when it really slows down. Seems to perk up the wash just enough to get it to the finish line, all other things being equal. Good luck, bd.

[mrhooch]

Steve:

One little thing...

Check to see if the vitamins are extended release. If they are, then some of the vitamin powder is processed with wax, so it takes a while for you to digest it. That wax if you add it to the wash, sometimes comes out as flakes in the finished product, much to my extreme annoyance.

If you are adding it to the mix, then crush the tablet, put it in a paper coffee filter and put it in hot water to let the vitamins leach out. Then add the liquid to the wash. Seems to work for me.

Hooch

[steveb]

Thanks Hooch!

[rad14701]

I would suspect temperature as the biggest issue... I f the ferment has stalled rather than fermenting slowly then the yeast may have gone dormant... Get that yeast colony warmed up to between 24C/75F and 30C/85F and see what happens after a few hours...

[kiwistiller]

Steve, I for one would say that an electric blanket will be much better. make sure you cover up the whole lot after turning the elec on as well, use an old banket or something and make holes for the airlock. crank the elec blanket up to high to warm them, then dial it down to maintain. good luck!

[vicrider]

Every time I use bakers yeast I keep my temp right at 26c and it's done in 3 days and clear in 5. V

[blanikdog]

Temperature is the problem. Warn it up by whatever means you can and she'll will be apples. You've used tomato paste for nutrients so that's OK, so warm it up and whatever you do dont even think of trying for the 18% that 1118 is capable of. It introduces nasties that you really dont want. 10% - 12% is ideal.

blanik

[steveb]

Blanik,

Just to understand, when you say I shouldn't try for the 18%, do you mean I should not wait for the wash to get below 1.00 SG? Or do you mean use a lower original gravity?

Thanks,

Steve

[rednose]

Lower OG.

If you use a mash that has sugar in you can get off taste of burned sugar.

Don't ask me why I know that.

[steveb]

Thanks. That's what I figured.

Steve

[beelah]

I have a bactch on now and I always have been using bakers yeast and it seems to work fine for me.

I ferment it in my basemetn bathroom that has an electric baseboard heater that I turn on and palce the frementation tub on a stool right next to the heater. Keeps the wash nice and warm.

However, I have found that Ph seems to be the big problem for me in that within a day of starting is at 3 to 3.5.

I had been using tums crushed up mixed into the wash to try and bufffer it and it worked pretty weel, but last week I went down to the bree shop and got me some Calcium Carbonate, ot chalk and added it yesterday to my wash and got it back to about a ph of 5 and it took right off!

I have been doing the branflake wash and kiekthe taste and I am back to doing corn flakes just to do a taste comparison between the two.

I note thtat there are lots of vitamins and minerals in the cereal that are good for the yeast, however there is also sodium (Na) which I know from making bread, is inthe recipe to keep the yeast from working too hard. Could that be a reason for why soem of our washes work slower than ususal?

I know that when using plain ole wheatgerm, that the ferment is much more aggressive than with other kinds of prepared cereals.

But just as insurance I always add a vit B tab, 3-4 tsps of DAP, a pinch of epsomes salt and dehydrated brewers yeast. It alwasy works out to a dry wash in 5 to 7 days.

[blanikdog]

Blanik,

Just to understand, when you say I shouldn't try for the 18%, do you mean I should not wait for the wash to get below 1.00 SG? Or do you mean use a lower original gravity?

Thanks,

Steve

What I meant was to let it ferment right out by all means, but not to be seduced - as I did - by the promised 18%abv. You'll get a better final product at around 10 - 12.

blanik

[steveb]

The pH seems to be down around 3 now.

I've got some calcium carbonate. How much should I add to a 27 liter wash to bring things to around 5?

Thanks,

Steve

[beelah]

I would start with a table spoon at a time, mix, wait a few minutes and check the ph, add more if it is not in he range that you want.

For me, the PH was 3 in 20l, and I added 3 tablespoons to get it back to 4.5 -5 and it took off pretty briskly after that.