New member intro and questions

[blanikdog]

Troll.....

Never my intention... I never made the comment, "A still needs a thermometer like a fish needs a bicycle..."

Actually hooch - or whoever you are - it was I who said "You need a thermometer on a pot still like a fish needs a bicycle. " and if you read it carefully you may notice that I am discussing a POT still. I don't mind you quoting me, but please take the time to aim for a little bit of accuracy.

blanik

[blanikdog]

+1 Kiwi

Also mr Hooch, why would you need a thermometer on your boiler if you boil off the heads before adding your column, it dosn't make sense.
You are misleading and contraversial

Troll


OD

Hooch comes from a place that was designed to cause controversy, OD. That was his whole point.

Now it seems that misleading advice is being given as well. Lets hope that any new folk see through the facade and completely ignore the fool. You forgot to add dangerous to his attributes.

blanik

[braddie77]

ANYWAYS... Back to helping me with the building of my still peoples

I still need a design to follow, and am having alot of trouble making my coil to fit in my 50mm pipe (currently googling how to do it)

So if a generous person could plz help a noob out and stop flaming the troll for a sec, I'd really appreiate it

[rednose]

The champ in HD for winding coils is Hookline.

He recently released a PDF manual.

Just make a thread search.

Joe

[blanikdog]

ANYWAYS... Back to helping me with the building of my still peoples

I still need a design to follow, and am having alot of trouble making my coil to fit in my 50mm pipe (currently googling how to do it)

So if a generous person could plz help a noob out and stop flaming the troll for a sec, I'd really appreiate it

Sorry about all of this Braddie. It doesn't happen often and unfortunately you got caught in the middle. That's exactly what he's trying to do; make it difficult for us to help you by disrupting the thread.

I can't help you cos I only a pot still, but if you ignore hooch someone will come to assist you.

blanik

[mrhooch]

Actually Kiwi, you should just send him a sketch of your VM still, it is pretty much exactly as described. Braddie: look at his sig and click on My stuff.

So what size of valve are you using there anyways?

I've just picked up all the stuff for my next build, I'll post somewhere else my results.

Hooch.

[braddie77]

I grabbed this image off a post from hookline and is what I have been thinking I will build



All the measurements are ok? If anything needs to be changed, please let me know

*Also I have made my attempt at making 2 coils, one is double coiled, the other is not. The double coiled one is axeactly 50mm wide and will touch the side of my column when inserted. As I understand, This is a bad thing, have I got this fact correct?

Here is my coils



Both my coils have touching sides and my double coil has everything touching. So I think I failed on that one. I have since read hookline's guide to making a coil. Would my single coil still be sufficient?

[kiwistiller]

Hook's design is a good one. I'm sure you can use your imagination on where you can substitute parts that you purchased for the older design. I'll let someone more knowledgable than myself field the coil question.

[braddie77]

Sweet... Almost green light time!

Any suggestions on a good way to cut out my hole in the keg? Jigsaw blade got red hot and went blunt. I think I'm opting for the angle grinder and then file/sand it back

[kiwistiller]

I wouldn't if you haven't already cut into it

[braddie77]

I haven't cut into it yet (well a few drill holes and an inch long jigsaw cut before it died)... But you didn't give me a suggestion either

Apparently a jigsaw is the way to go. I jut gotta buy a 10 pack of em and go slow

[kiwistiller]

I haven't cut into it yet (well a few drill holes and an inch long jigsaw cut before it died)... But you didn't give me a suggestion either

I was sure I suggested to read lots - I don't have plans for a VM because it's a good exercise for people to go through designing their own

[braddie77]

Na, it's all good man. I bought special stainless steel cutting blades for my keg, also a flap disc to clean up the edges. All good if you don't got plans, I just need direction, I can work the rest out. Also I agree that it's best to learn by practice. AND I have been reading!

I'm currently reading 'Stone-The Carriage Still', and although much of it is going straight over my head, all the basics are starting to form.

I thought I had questions about construction! Wow, there is just as much, if not more in making/stripping the wash...

[braddie77]

Just on valves (which i'd like to know what size my take off one needs to be too plz): wouldn't a ball valve be better? I ask this because a gate valve opens from one side, where as a ball valve opens centrally somewhat.

[braddie77]

Here is a rough drawing of what I intend to build once I have received some feedback and all seems good...

[rednose]

What's the 2" ballvalve under the condenser for?

Haven't seen that before.

[braddie77]

Erm, I have several documents I've been reading and in one of them titled "JourneyMans Vapour Management Still Head" which claims says "as per Nixon and McCaws "The Compleat Distiller", the design has a gate valve to the condenser, figured it was for more adjustability on the condensing side of things.

I decided on the ball valve because it opens centrally, whereas a gate valve opens from the side. You wouldn't suggest it? I didn't think it would do much, but you never know with these things, (being a noob and all)

[kiwistiller]

ball valve is not supposed to be as good as gate, because it has much less fine control. that being said, I use a ball valve, because I'm a cheap bastard. you should have a 2" vapour port, so that's good. If you can, you'll probably enjoy having a bit more column height. if you can't, then you'll just have to run with a bit more reflux to get similar results.

you might want to consider having the product condenser vertical instead of on an angle. the angle is more convient to work around (for me anyway) but you can get a better takeoff rate if you have it vertical and incorporate a bit of a drop before the condenser. something to think about anyway.

[braddie77]

I'd only have a ball valve atop my column to adjust my first condenser (if you think it's a good idea?) take off would be a gate valve.

Is 1" (25mm) ok for my gate valve?

And could you draw me a crude sketch of what you mean with the take off please kiwi? I don't exactly understand what you mean... I angled it to move the vapours and distilled alcohol away from the heat of the burner... I would love to know if there is a better way?

[kiwistiller]

I'd only have a ball valve atop my column to adjust my first condenser (if you think it's a good idea?) take off would be a gate valve.

Is 1" (25mm) ok for my gate valve?

And could you draw me a crude sketch of what you mean with the take off please kiwi? I don't exactly understand what you mean... I angled it to move the vapours and distilled alcohol away from the heat of the burner... I would love to know if there is a better way?

Oh right I've just spotted the ball valve... mmm probably not such a great one, what's the reason for it? how would it be welded? the danger of course is that it could be left shut, blah blah you know the rest of that story. if you have such a short column, I really don't think you'll be wanting to go much under 1:1 reflux ratio (you probably won't use 1:1 much either, only for center hearts if you don't want azeotrope I'd imagine).

sorry on a trackpad right now so sketches are a no go. let me see if I can show you-

this is my column with the liebig detached: http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view

see how the product path is on an angle instead of vertical? and there isn't much drop before where the condenser goes? maybe better to see in this halfcolumn pic: http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view
That's not really the design "best practice".

The way it was laid out in hooks plan that you looked at makes for a better takeoff rate, as ethanol vapour at high abvs is heavier than air, it want's to accelerate down the vertical path, like an inverted chimney. If you search around for terms like chimney effect you might find some posts that deal with it.

[braddie77]

I thought it would aid in controlling condensation as I can't control my pump speed, only water flow. All good I haven't bought it, doesn't need to be on there I gather. I just saw it on Journeymans VM head.

I would definately modify the ball valve if I were to use it so it couldn't be closed off completely.

How is the reflux ratio controlled/altered?

How is total reflux made to happen?

With respect to the take off, I'm unsure as to what you are saying, I'm assuming that the liebig creates a "flow through" effect with the cooling, but needs to create some sort of turbulence using gravity before the vaour hits the condenser. If you could explain it a little bit better (perhaps dumb it down for the noob lol) that;d be really great...

And thanks very much for all your help kiwi, I now have a copy of the compleat diestiller and am still reading vigorously... Just haven't started on the compleat diestiller yet

[kiwistiller]

quickly - rr controlled by the takeoff valve.
total rr by shutting takeoff completely. will russle up a reference for you on how vm works...

[rad14701]

I would scrap the idea of the ball valve as it is the gate valve in the take off branch and heat input that should be used to control reflux... If you start messing with the reflux condenser you're going to end up with a VM column that is difficult to drive because you'll throttle back on the reflux and the temperature is going to rise throughout the column... You'll be pulling off inferior product and playing still monkey... If you ever wanted to do a pot still run you could just keep the reflux head detachable and replace it with a cap... Not to mention the price of that valve...

[braddie77]

No worries rad. Sorry, I have been PMing and have decided not to go the ball valve.

I will definately make if all as dismountable as possible as I'm sure I will go through quite a few mods as time goes.

Thanks for the heads up though, it's good to get the same answer from more than one person to reinforce the idea that the path I'm considering is not the best.

So now I have decided to go 1100mm colummn with my 50mm X 3 Tee, with a 150mm condenser from hookline (I will also trial my condensers at some point) Which will screw on and off (so I can place different coils on easily)

As I understand, I shouldn't need to braze my tee piece on, as long as it fits snugly? Or should I make it removable via a threaded fitting?

Now, on to my take off, I need to understand the maths to work out the ideal take off pipe size, gate valve, etc and where to place my liebig and the length of it and the run before it. Could anyone please help me with that?

[braddie77]

bump... help please?

[kiwistiller]

Hooks plan is good.