Hi to all here.

[largemoose]

I will admit to being a long time reader here. I am one of those who like to know brain wise what is going on and then do. I am however not a complete novice on the distillation side. I have a good mate of mine who bought a CR with 25L boiler probably 2 years back now. I was the one who did the reading up on the theory and temps and whatever - using the book from the NZ guys from Spirits Unlimited. So we were pretty hopeless first off. Getting water flow right was a big problem. We conquered water issues back during 08 with a 2 tap setup and a pump running water out of a bath - rain water is cheap.

I have read all about the bloody turbo yeast. Yes we have used it. Yes it is SH!T. I can detect smells with it that although not unpleasant exactly - are not what I want to be smelling.

We have however produced a scotch that is better in my opinion than a Glen Fiditch. Bloody good stuff. That is even with this bastard of a smell. Taste is fine - just a dodgy smell.

We get constant 92-93% out of the still. Cannot remember what volume exactly - but certainly enough once brought back to about 40% to be making a good amount of drinkables.

Why am I here if I have already read books and whatever. I want to know what is not in the books and not info that has a $ sign on it and someone hoping I will buy something. Plus knowledge does not weigh anything. And I have got the time on my hands all of a sudden to spend time learning about a subject that interests me.

I come from firstly a music background and then working in IT as a tech and ultimately as the boss.

So I will shut up before I get chucked out for writing the biggest hello ever seen.



lm

[Whitedog]

Welcome to the forum, Largemoose! WD

[blanikdog]

Welcome LM. Good to welcome someone who has done some research. Stay safe.

blanik

[rednose]

Welcome LM

Would be great if you can post the receipt on the Glen stuff.

Joe

[kiwistiller]

Welcome. Planning a build?

[LWTCS]

LMOOOOOSE.
Welcome

[rad14701]

Greetings, largemoose...

With a little research and a few questions answered you should be well on your way to improving your spirits... If you can post pictures of your equipment we might be able to give a few pointers on how to make improvements...

Good luck...

[largemoose]

Hi guys.

Potentially looking at a build for myself - but I say potential with a lot of other stuff that is at the front of the line first.

On the issue of the Glenfiditch. We had real Glenfiditch and our makings side by side. Made from memory from the Whiskey Profile Kit - not sure if that is breaking any rules around here. We "sampled" both and I will admit the Glenfiditch is a bloody good drop - never having it before. But what my mate put together we liked more than the store bought. Part of that is he fact it was done by your own hand - but it was very very nice too. From memory he did not go exactly by instructions either - this was a sort of guess work version. Not certain how much note taking was done. but I will do my best to find out. That particular one had been "resting" for 12 months before drinking - very very good stuff indeed. I was ALMOST unable to taste/smell this annoying sweetish yeasty shitty annoying thing we have in the spirit. This was PRIOR to us using the carbon. So all the early stuff from 2 years+ back is no carbon. Started using carbon around summer 08/09 Cricket season. So really have not started trying any of that yet. Mainly because we find the longer we leave it the more the smell/taste we don't want goes and the better we like it too. Bullshit way of doing it I know - but my mate was convinced if we are getting 93% spirit essentially all the time - why do we NEED to put the damn thing on carbon at all. Even when we were hopeless and could not make the cooling sort itself we were getting 85%-ish.

Now I know - bastard Turbo Yeast is the problem. Well we are going to do a Allbran Wash as the first for basically 12 months now. Nice and simple - even if it just goes normal speed without the Epsom Salts and the dead yeast we will be happy - I am not putting bloody plant food near it - or trying to explain why to my mate. It works - fine - just don't get me having to say why to my mate. I convinced him that water and sugar cannot screw up the flavour of the spirit - so it has to be the only other thing we have been using - Turbo Yeast. So he is convinced.

Now we have had real issues with cooling - BAD issues. Not KABOOM or anything but screwing around with taps here and turn this and fart about to keep the temp at the head - up where the thermometer is. We had plastic "GATE" type things that expanded. No good. Then we got a brass one with a wheel on top - and this works - but it gets hot and shuts off the little tiny gap you have made to trickle the water out - damned hot when you are trying to make the rotten thing pass more water through - cos temp has started to go through 80+ degrees centigrade and we don't want it to.

SO - I have seen the pics of the cooling system with a "ball" flow valve - or some such - I just cannot locate where it is here on the site. Bloke made it here in Aus - so I know I can go to same place and buy the same stuff. That will be the first mod before we do more work. The water supply is NOT a problem - 2 steel baths full of rainwater driven by a fish tank pump. However we have had a NO flow issue many times - not a no water issue - and not a blockage as that has been sorted. It seems to be to do with the bloody taps - one gets hot expands - makes a vapour/air bubble build up behind the tap - because it is on the hot outflow pipe and everything gets buggered up - and I get burnt fingers stuffing about with the tap. I do not like burnt fingers and I hate that brass tap - but it is better than the plastic rubbish we first had. So I need a bit of a pointing to info that would be useful - pics I can show my mate so he can understand and off we go and sort the fix. We are running clear poly tubing - same diam as normal garden hose or near enough.

The unit is a stainless steel Column - Reflux Still. 30L boiler or there abouts - like a big Urn. Not that blue or black plastic short ass thing. Big tall unit - 5 foot high sitting on the boiler. Not sure what is inside the column - beads or scrubbers or whatever. I want to know what is best - as I have heard that with the Copper in the mix there is some sort of Ion transfer happening - which is obviously prior to the condensing back into liquid spirit. I understand what the filler is for to allow condensing and re distribution back down into the boiler so what you get up the top is as pure as you can get - that is my take on it at least in simple form. Is copper good to have somewhere in the mix - if you do not have a copper boiler or a copper column? Or is it a waste of time? I will go read further to understand the ins and outs but these are my questions in order to get a better working process. Better overall system for making good spirit too - and that is what we are on about.

There is bubbling coming from the seal between the boiler "lid" and the column base. At least there was the last time I was helping my mate. Understanding that when this started it is approx 12 months into the still being new. Do expansions and things take place due to heat causing materials to move a bit? - hence you get a bit of a gap. Obviously another thing that needs attending to before the new batch gets run.

Being that the collection of 90%+ spirit seems to be in order. Fixing of the associated difficulties with the cooling system. The only other alteration I would like to make is the addition of a Digital Thermometer. I know you get what you pay for but can anyone suggest a reasonable unit that works for them as I do not want issues with misreading temps as being a difficulty when making cuts - above and beyond using taste smell and common sense. My smell is perfect - my mate had his nose re-arranged in a footy match (Aussie Rules) and does not do the smelling bit too good - so he needs a more accurate guide - and he cannot see the red dye in the little thermometer - so there are a few difficulties with the "getting it right" when I am not available.

I have discovered we were getting the cuts basically all wrong. Correction - we were utilising the output from making the cuts not quite as it should be done. Foreshots - methanol etc - taken and I can smell the difference - used as weed killer and tip on wasps when they try and bite us. Heads - collected fine - I can taste and smell the change - sweet - very nice and potent as I found out one day - we were putting this in with the main body. Top class dumb asses. But no more. Body - fine collected and watered down to 40% from around the 92-93% mark. Tails I can smell and basically once we started to smell a "turps" type of smell - oily nasty - we did not collect anymore - did not taste either for obvious reasons. Now I understand there is still some useable ethanol in the tails. My question is this - is it being seen to be greedy pigs by collecting the tails and once you got 10Ltr of that to water down to 20Ltr and do another batch to collect the ethanol? Is that just really a waste of time and seeing as we have not been doing it we should continue. I predict from what has been said here about the efficacy of the Allbran Wash - and others of a similar type - I am not being discriminatory - that the yield will potentially be even better than the turbo BS just by virtue of less off flavours and therefore the tails will happen later in the process. Therefore my expectation would be that we would get at least the same quantity of spirit as we have been getting - but with no dodgy smell and very clean neutral taste. Even the nice wheat smell/taste we would be happy with - at least that is a nice outcome.

Ok now I am going to ask a question without diligently doing my research - is it possible to get a pot still "like" outcome - with flavour profiles and whatever carried across by detuning a Column Reflux unit? I have read different little bits that seem to indicate people are running some sort of hybrid device - taking out of scrubbers/whatever and running still that way. But I am just wondering as a "store" bought unit - even though it is made up by someone - is it possible to make a rum style spirit with molasses etc or even keep the characteristics of the wheat from the Allbran wash - by farting about with the column in some way. Is THIS device capable or are more details required.

I will go off reading again - but if there is anyone here willing to point in a certain direction I would be most pleased to be guided accordingly.

One thing I did not say in my initial info - as it is not something that is I guess information that people wish to hear - but I was diagnosed with MS - Multiple Sclerosis 7 months ago. This type of hobby or at least the info behind it gives me an outlet for me to think and plan and make my analytical side of myself work on something other than bastard doctors and which bit is causing trouble today. So I guess I am saying that you now have my undivided attention as I do not believe in doing a job poorly when there is a better approach available. And alcohol is something I can still enjoy in moderation and it will not do me any harm - so why not learn to make bloody good stuff is my idea. I can learn to do exactly that here - and I intend to.

I like many of you do not like the idea of spoon feeding some poor unfortunate nuff nuff so they do not have to find out WTF for themselves. My information I have put above is to facilitate those who wish to call me a dumb bastard and 3 kinds of idiot for choosing to do such and such. I am quite happy to be called such things because on many occasions it has been perfectly accurate and no one was available to avail themselves of the chance to comment. I am however of the opinion that unless I prove to be incapable of learning I should be given a chance to improve my knowledge.

I wish also to take the opportunity to thank all of you on here for sharing the vast wealth of info that you have. Some people are very pleased to tell you "look what I can do" - but not so ready to help. It diminishes some people to now that you now know as much as them - a concept I understand but have never subscribed to. We all were novices once.

May we have many successes in life with just enough failures to learn how to improve.

thanks guys - and ladies as I am sure there are some.

I will try and organise pics of the equipment setup ASAP - but may take a bit of time - but I will keep reading in the meantime anyway.

LM

[largemoose]

Ok after reading kiwi post I now know the still is a tall column Cooling Management type of Reflux still. Not designed for the sort of tuning I was talking about in the 2nd post. However in that post is also the cooling config info I had seen and forgot where it was.

I am certain - even now I know that this design is not the greatest ever made it has to be ok otherwise we could not get 90%+ out of the thing even with a fiddly water cooling system and compromised wash from the Turbo yeast. I am certain now that a more accurate method of water delivery needs to be addressed - one that can be tuned as needs to be done for different temperatures and ambient temps outside as well.

So that is a few ticks off the list sorted.

I will keep reading.

If I were going to make my own still - what would be the preferred design? Understanding that even though I would be capable of understanding HOW to build one - I do not currently have the technical skills nor the strength or dexterity in my hands to do so anymore. Plus heat is a real issue for me and screws me up real fast - so welding is not an option - although I do know someone with the facility to do so - potentially. A rough idea of $$ for materials costs would be a good start to see if it would be in my budget as a future project.

But at least now I have an understanding of the animal we have been told is the best one going. Certainly better than the little short things and those Air Stills.

A bad workman blames his tools as they say - so we just have to make the damn tools work better for us to do what we want.

LM

[Mud Mechanik]

Welcome Largemoose, sounds like you have done your homework, good job. MM

[largemoose]

I am using this page as a note keeping area as well as the making list of questions.

I looked at the crossflow condenser design and the energy efficient designs on the tastylime site. I like the look - understand the principles from a rudimentary point of view after short reading. Issue is space and again construction and issues I would potentially encounter physically doing so.

I will admit I am favoring a non water cooled device as water utilisation is a major factor here in Aus. My mate has his water sorted by catching rain off 2 big shed roofs - so no cost - plus he catches the hot outflow back into the second bath - so as not to heat the input water for cooling. Passive cooling - ideal in winter - not much good in an Aussie summer however.

I will admit even though I have heard it called all sorts of names - the Air Still is almost the ideal size - understanding the plastic components and whatever are a bastard. Size wise and elimination of the Turbo yeast downsides - it would almost be ideal if scaled up a bit into a larger version - eliminating the plastic BS components and the other non useful bits. If the principles behind the AirStill are sound then it should be possible to look at redesigning - using other parts obviously - a less modular but better working version. The heat output of the design will be the major issue - and air cooling the vapour the main problem. There are devices called peltier coolers - a ceramic square with a heat emitting side and a cooler on the other. I am starting to think of a cooling method to condense the vapour - without increasing energy expenditure exponentially as the design complexity increases. Possibly the peltier could use the energy trapped in the wash to initiate the cooling half of the peltier and by some process feed this cooling to copper tubes to sort the condensing - a passive cooling certainly but utilising the heat given of from the boiler as a by produce to initiate the cooling stage could be feasible.

Certainly I can not use the volumes of water needed for a water cooled device - in good conscience. Therefore I need to look at other approaches.

A thought just struck me that if the major drawback of the still design is time taken to heat the wash - then increasing the surface area the wash is exposed to said heat would be the next logical step. Which has been done in large scale stills with steam being fed through pipes through the wash. Or peltier cooler could be mounted on the sides of the vessel and transfer heat through the walls - not just using the element at the bottom. Contact area would be a problem as would fastening it to the side - although maybe a magnet would still (no pun intended) allow operation of the pelier. Not sure it is a workable process as they work with one side being fed heat and the other side emitting an opposite - so a cold source would be needed to get an acceptable heat output (see point above about peltier being the cooler for vapour not extra heat source). I will keep thinking. The increased heating area would then explain the rounded bottom Alembic stills - which due to the round bottom significantly increase the surface area available to heat the wash - at least in some pictures I have seen.

I also now know for certain I need copper in the column. Best source is the garden pest "prevention" copper mesh - assuming such can be located. Next being copper scrubbers like steel wool - but making sure they are real copper and not some dodgy crap or plastic.

Insulation of the Reflux column seems to be mentioned - although I am unclear if this will make any appreciable difference to the efficacy of the current unit or not. As it appears the current unit has never had a chance of working at optimum performance I would be fixing current inadequacies first before adding extra elements to the mix.

An absolute must is letting wash sit and all elements settle out so crap does not get put into the boiler - dead yeast when boiled gives off bad flavours and smells - not what is required. Can sediment be adequately avoided by using the tap/spigot on a normal fermenter used for beer making? The sediment should be below the level of the tap and therefore most of the liquid above could be removed and no sediment would be disturbed. My grasp of the racking procedure is incomplete having never seen it done - I need further info on this as it is a primary quality control issue.

[kiwistiller]

There are a few air aircooled dseigns, especially in europe (they seem to be into it for some reason) you could look on the european forums, or get Riku's book.

I don't know why you aren't just getting a pump and a radiator though? Especially because thats what the Jackson CF condenser was designed for...you'll only ever need to fill a small reservior once.

Insulation of the Reflux column seems to be mentioned - although I am unclear if this will make any appreciable difference to the efficacy of the current unit or not. As it appears the current unit has never had a chance of working at optimum performance I would be fixing current inadequacies first before adding extra elements to the mix.

Insulation is essential. Don't know about the current unit though.