Store Bought Flavoring- Whats hot & whats not

[Caustic]

I am trying my first whiskey effort, now while It started out as a Cornflake,oat and bran mash, I used bourbon barrel chips to flavour (now at 1 month old) and it turned out quite well, even at 110% proof (my cask strength) it is smooth and has a good bourbon taste, however the taste is all in the backend, it almost has no smell of bourbon in the demijohn, but if I rub a little between my hands and take a whiff I get a strong bourbon smell? The flavour is good, although it has probably been almost a decade since I have drank a bourbon whiskey, so my perception of a good bourbon could be off...
edit: after pouring about half a litre into a jar for evaluation After an hour of breathing, it had plenty of nose and is now unmistakenly bourbonish. I age in 5 litre demijohns with 2 coffee filters secured with a snaptie, The differance of an hour is amazing, or it could be attributed to my now elevated alcohol content??

[Rod]

I generally make my own gin , but

the wife likes a southern comfort and coke

as suggested hear I used the southern haze essence and she is happy

I noticed when I purchased the essence , various wood chips

if I wanted to add some wood chips

what sort to add

how much

how long

I'd go charred or dark toast if you can get them. only a little, and for as long as you can wait a cm or two of vanilla bean wouldn't go amiss in there either I'm picking.

I will look at what my LHBS has , but from memory it was labeled , bourbon , Tennessee , Irish etc

will have to look for charred or dark toast , they did not appear to be charred or burn ???

maybe come back with a list

thanks

ps how close to the original , I do not know , not much on whiskey or bourbon , wife mixes with coke anyway

Just got a gift from a mate

1kg of Jack Daniels wood chips normally used for smoking fish

how much would I add ( grams , oz )to a 700 ml Bottle of Southern Haze and how long should I leave them in there for

I am assuming the wood chips would not be treated and OK to add to the spirit

[kiwistiller]

bit of an assumption...

[beerbaron]

My favourite is Aussie Gold Rum from SS. I fin it delicious. Just mix with ice.

[Bayou-Ruler]

&

[gavin]

Here are some of my own findings so far.

First the good:

Essencia blue sapphire gin - extremely good. Will fool most drinkers of the oroginal if made with a good quality neutral and left a few days before drinking.

Still spirits top shelf london dry gin- good knock off of gordons. Will fool many gordons drinkers. And those it dosn't fool will more than likely be very happy to drink it anyway, because its so close.

Still spirits Cafelua - very good but needs to age a few days in order to get the best out of this and avoid a funny after taste.

Still spirits almoretto - very good but needs about half as much flavoring again above what is reccomended if you want it to be as same as the original.

Still spirits Irish cream - YUM, quite chocolate tasting as well as coffee. Very nice, but use either cream or the still spirits powder base. Not the essencia liquid base, which makes things more oily rather than creamy.

Essencia bourbon chunks - very good, quite impressed with these after being quite dissapointed with almost all the bourbon essences.

Jack Daniels BBQ chunks - Also very good actually. Takes a bit longer than the essencia ones, possibly due to there not being as much inner barrell wood with these. But eventually does produce a nice JD bourbon type drink. NOTE: Get the JD barrell chunks, NOT the JD carbon pellets which are also sold for smoking and are made from the maple charcol that JD use to filter their bourbon. These pellets will just fill your spirit with all the crap that JD filtered out of his!

Still spirits "classic premium" brandy (the sachet stuff) - pretty ok although most of the brandy essences seem quite one dimensional, much like most of the bourbon essences.

Still spirits "classic premium" american bourbon & kentucky bourbon - These two are probably the best of the bourbon essences I have found so far. Seems impossible to get a good bourbon just from an essence alone. But if I had no access to the barrell chunks, these two essences are what I would be using.

Now the average:

Still spirits top shelf kentucky bourbon - ok, as in ok taste. But completely lacking in any oak factor, so nothing like a genuine bourbon

Essencia vsop brandy - ok, possibly one of the better brandy essences. But again, a bit one dimensional compared to a good quality shop brought

Essencia irish cream - ok tasting but made mine with the essencia liquid base (so oily more than creamy). And mine for some strange reason turned into something tasting like cough medicine after a few days, so ended up being tipped out. May need to try again.

Spirits unlimited vanilla vodka - ok if thats your thing, it seems. But experiment first with WAY less than the recommended rates, its very over powering.

Still spirits top shelf premium french brandy - ok, nothing to get excited about though.

Now the bad:

Still spirits orininals bourbon - Total waste of money. Unless you want something horrible tasting to give to your mates to discourage them bludging spirit off you, then its perfect.

Spirits unlimited premium burbon - same as above, I'm surprised anyone would want to drink this crap.

Essencia kentucky bourbon - Bad! In fact bad in a way that left me wondering if I got a faulty bottle. Supposed to be Jim beam like. Mine tasted like some kind of off caramel only.

Oak essences (every one of every brand I have tried so far) - total waste of money. Seems you can use them all at 20times the reccomended rate and still not get anything remotely oaky in a flavoured spirit.



Thats about my lot so far, apart from a really good brandy mixture I eventually created by using a mix of two brandy essences and a tiny bit of a bourbon one.

[Rod]

Here are some of my own findings so far.

Jack Daniels BBQ chunks - Also very good actually. Takes a bit longer than the essencia ones, possibly due to there not being as much inner barrell wood with these. But eventually does produce a nice JD bourbon type drink. NOTE: Get the JD barrell chunks, NOT the JD carbon pellets which are also sold for smoking and are made from the maple charcol that JD use to filter their bourbon. These pellets will just fill your spirit with all the crap that JD filtered out of his!

I assume your comment is from 1st hand experience

because I was a bit worried after a comment by

bit of an assumption...

whose posts I respect

How much wood chips ( my stuff is wood chunks , some with a dark side and a cut side )( grams or oz ) did you use per litre of spirit

and for how long

[gavin]

Hi Rod,

yes, my post is from personal experience.

I saw kiwis post also and like yourself always appreciate his input. He is certainly right that its unwise to just assume things without checking them out for yourself. Which is what I have done.

I got the outlet i purchased mine from to make further inquirys back up the supply chain about this and the answer was that they are just chipped up old bourbon barrells.

So far I have only used them at the same rate that is reccomended on the small packs of the essencia ones (50gm chips per litre spirit) because this seemed like a sensible starting point. You start to get some nice bourbon flavour and aroma levels after a week or so. After that its down personal prefference I guess.

However as mentioned, the percentage of inner (bourbon soaked) wood seems to be a bit less with these when compared to the essencia ones (well at least my pack was). Most likely because the JD packaged material was not selected specifically for bourbon flavoring like the essencia material no doubt was. Accordingly they don't seem to flavour up the spirit quite as fast as the essencia ones, so it may be worthwhile experimanting with using slightly more chunks if you want to speed the process up a little.

[azza69]

Gavin,
interested in your review of the different essences. How long do you like to leave the Essenscia bourbon chunks and the JD chips in for?

[gavin]

Gavin,
interested in your review of the different essences. How long do you like to leave the Essenscia bourbon chunks and the JD chips in for?

Hi azza,

I'm very new to this, so certainly no expert. So far I have only followed the instructions as per the essencia pack which from memory works out to about 50gms of chunks per litre of spirit, left for two weeks. I followed the same procedure with the JD chips.

The stuff comes out ok. Both seem like quite a sweet bourbon, so quite nice to sip by itself but a bit too sweet for my tastes when added to coke. I prefer a jim beam type of bourbon as that goes better for me with coke.

However, how to make such a thing eludes me at this stage.

[olddog]

However, how to make such a thing eludes me at this stage

Start with UJSSM and go from there, is not much harder than a neutral sugar wash.


OD

[Dnderhead]

if your "cooking out of a box" dont complain about the taste.these come from much exspermenting with grain.
yes UJSSM is a step up.ageing also has a lot to do with it.

[azza69]

Gavin,
interested in your review of the different essences. How long do you like to leave the Essenscia bourbon chunks and the JD chips in for?

Hi azza,

I'm very new to this, so certainly no expert. So far I have only followed the instructions as per the essencia pack which from memory works out to about 50gms of chunks per litre of spirit, left for two weeks. I followed the same procedure with the JD chips.

The stuff comes out ok. Both seem like quite a sweet bourbon, so quite nice to sip by itself but a bit too sweet for my tastes when added to coke. I prefer a jim beam type of bourbon as that goes better for me with coke.

However, how to make such a thing eludes me at this stage.

So am I, have only done 5 runs but finsing each one gets better and better. I found the 2 weeks wasn't enough and have just bottled some which was 6 weeks old and personally I thought much nicer. I guess longer is better, but wonder if there reaches a point where it starts tasting worse.

[gavin]

yeah the general consensus seems to be longer is better. I've only had mine down two weeks so far but intend to leave it on longer to see. Eventually I will probably get serious though and try to make a more authentic drink by using something like the UJSSM like olddog and dnderhead suggest above.

['SideWinder']

I've only been experimenting with SS essences.

So far, the best is SS Italiano (Vanilla Galliano), it tastes like the real thing, mates agree.
SS Irish Cream with SS Cream Base - Tastes good, but using 40% is a bit alcoholic, next time I'll try with less %.
SS Melon (Midori) - Smells like Midori but strong (40%), haven't tasted it (don't like Mirdori).
SS Jaegermeister - Doesn't smell exacly like Jaeger but similiar, haven't tried it yet.
SS Absinthe - Never had the original - Mate recons tastes similiar but mines tasted stronger (50%).
SS Coconut Rum (Malibu) - Haven't tried yet
SS Vodka - Tasted like ass . I think it was my Neutral tho, will try another bottle soon.
SS Original Bourbon - Only just made it, letting it sit for abit.

Will keep posted on the ones I ain't tried yet.
I get mates to rate/comment because I'm only a Vodka drinker.

[bigscarybair]

I've only tried a few, but Aussie Gold has by far been the best..Aged some UJSSM on chips for about a week before tossing in a few drops of Kentucky Bourbon flavor, was not bad at all..SS Navy Rum was also pretty good- macerated some spices, apricots, and raisins with it. Of course, most of the essences will provide a good "taste" but few have any actual "flavor"...I had a few friends try some different blends I was working on and most said "smells good, tastes good..But seems watery". I chalk that up to lack of depth/ageing/flavor profile, whatever you want to call it. Any combination of honey or glycerin or sugar/spices/vanilla, etc will give you a good "taste" but as far as essences go, unless you are only aiming for a sold mixer - which they will surely provide - there is a definite lack of complexity..It takes good wash and some solid time to get real good "flavor" in my experience..Just had a drink of two-week old Hook rum on chips..Considerably smoother and rounder than fresh off the still, I can only imagine what 6-12 months can do for a spirit..

[djamesnz]

Hi all,

My partner has just discovered Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum and lurvs it.
Are there any good flavours out there for this?

I've also used:
Jim Beam chips - great
Essencia Blue Sapphire - great
SS Top Shelf Dark Rum - pretty good
SS Irish Cream - not great. Creamer tasted very artificial

Cheers

[frozenthunderbolt]

Hi all,

My partner has just discovered Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum and lurvs it.
Are there any good flavours out there for this?

Cheers

A decent rum wash is not hard to make - my first attempt has been airing and aging on charred manuka for two weeks and smells and tastes INFINATELY better than Captn Morgan (which i used to like and now cannot drink!) - start with something decent like this and add a little citrus peel, maybe a few peppercorns, vanilla pod and a (tiny) piece of cinamon stick and i would be very very surprised if you couldnt come up with something that is FAR better.

Not a critisism of you or your partner - just an observation in general.

Only major thing to be aware of distilling rum is to leave HEAPS of airspace in your boiler - I can only 1/2 fill my 25L one, any more and it pukes out the condenser something chronic. I would suggest running a stripping run on just over 1/2 your wash, then dumping that dunder back into your fermenter (if you are doing a rum cycle) and then running the remainder of your wash with the stripped low wines added to it. I made 200ml cuts (after killing 400ml foreshots each run) and saved 6? out of 12 jars + another cup or two or reasonable tails.

Just my 2C - take a look at my post about my recipie and run if you want a better idea of +/- http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=21424

[djamesnz]

Thanks for that mate.
I checked out your recipe and might give it a nudge. My partner got quite excited at your descriptions of the flavour.

Did you run a second wash and try removing the packing and running it in "pot still mode" as you mentioned? If that much flavour came through a reflux column, I wonder if too much would come through in a pot still.

Do you char your own Manuka? I live on Waiheke Island and we have dozens of trees around our section.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Thanks for that mate.
I checked out your recipe and might give it a nudge. My partner got quite excited at your descriptions of the flavour.

Did you run a second wash and try removing the packing and running it in "pot still mode" as you mentioned? If that much flavour came through a reflux column, I wonder if too much would come through in a pot still.

Do you char your own Manuka? I live on Waiheke Island and we have dozens of trees around our section.

My second wash is almost finished - used 1/2 my dunder/backset and cane sugar - i'm thinking I'm going to add more molasses in the next generation though - the first generation was just so good.
I took out the ceramic saddles in the still head and put in two copper pot scrubbers instead - made a big difference i think.

Yep, charred my own. cut some sections about 12cm diameter, took the bark off and chopped sticks 15 cm long and 1cm(ish) square out of the heart of it. I then toasted it wrapped in foil at 200 for somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes. took it out and cooled it. heated up an element on the stove and charred the bits of the outside i could get to contact with the element.

Note: you need a very tolerant girlfriend to do this! A better idea is to use a gas torch outside
Try it in your pot, you can always dilute it with water and re-run it a second time if needs be.

[97acuratl]

Does anyone have an opinion of the amaretto essence versus the homemade recipe (sugar + almond extract + vanilla extract)? I made the homemade stuff and wasn't too impressed.

The london gin flavoring was 4/5. Good enough to keep in the cabinet!

[The Baker]

Does anyone have an opinion of the amaretto essence versus the homemade recipe (sugar + almond extract + vanilla extract)? I made the homemade stuff and wasn't too impressed.

The london gin flavoring was 4/5. Good enough to keep in the cabinet!

The REAL home-made uses apricot kernels. And/or, perhaps, some almond kernels.
And vanilla bean if you want some vanilla.
No essence.
I am going to make some one day....

[97acuratl]

Does anyone have an opinion of the amaretto essence versus the homemade recipe (sugar + almond extract + vanilla extract)? I made the homemade stuff and wasn't too impressed.

The london gin flavoring was 4/5. Good enough to keep in the cabinet!

The REAL home-made uses apricot kernels. And/or, perhaps, some almond kernels.
And vanilla bean if you want some vanilla.
No essence.
I am going to make some one day....

But have you or anyone tried the simplistic homemade version versus the premade flavor kits. Its very unlikely that I will invest the time to make a genuine version using apricots, just want to stock a good copy of the original that could fool most people.

[lawnman 2]

2 new flavours on my listings
still spirits bundaberg red top notch
and still spirits classic scotch whiskey
reconmend both

[Andy Capp]

I found that the best value in essences was the Edwards range. A 50ml bottle would give you 5 x 700ml bottles and the tastes were generally better than other brands. The Tia Maria ( 2 x 700ml ) is spot on for those wanting Black Russians. Scrub Turkey and Tennesee whiskeys are ok with neutral but even better if mixed at a diluted rate with DWWG. Irish Cream tastes nice but for all the mucking around with mixing it, you are better off making Baileys/Punkins Muck from the Tried and True section. That served chilled on ice is as good as any.

[Andy Capp]

Just tried Bodine's Calypso Rum
Not even close to being a rum. Although i don't usually drink rum but this stuff tastes just like Creaming Soda.
Is that what some rums taste like?
I spose this will appeal to those who like alcoholic cordial.
Very disappointing considering Bodine's Sour Mash Whiskey is closer to the mark than others i have tried.

[gingercat]

My 2 favorites

TS Aussie Gold
Prestige Aquivit
TS Triple Sec
TS Peach Schnaps
Prestige - Geneveressence (it might be just called gin now) - It can be diluted to 1.25 liters or else its too strong

I've tried various Bourbon essences and they re all awful - Trying wood chips at the moment

[eviljesus]

Got into a bit of a Jam and tried out the Southern Haze - a southern comfort copy.

Turned out excellent. I find normal southern too sweet, so I dialled back the recommended sugar by about 50% and added it in 5% increments till I found a level that I liked. Tastes better than the original too me.

Also +1 vote for the Amaretto rceipe. I made it without as much sugar again, but mainly because I couldnt remember the colour. I also added too much almond extract, but my god it turned out amazing. I'm slowly amassing myself a nice recipe book.

[puig]

I had giving up on these flavours in a bottle , i could'nt get that BITE which i find in commercial Rums and Whisky , then a friend pointed out i needed a less sophisticated alcohol base and to use a Good Quality Turbo Yeast, i used Prestige Black Label ( 1.085 ) with NO CUTS .. i collect the full run from my reflux column at 94%+ .. Watered down too 40% and made up a bottle of "Ambrosia whisky essence" you MUST Shake every day and leave for 7 days or more ( the 7 days is a must ! )

OMG AMAZING

Its a clone for Famous Grouse .. UK readers


Puig

[rad14701]

I had giving up on these flavours in a bottle , i could'nt get that BITE which i find in commercial Rums and Whisky , then a friend pointed out i needed a less sophisticated alcohol base and to use a Good Quality Turbo Yeast, i used Prestige Black Label ( 1.085 ) with NO CUTS .. i collect the full run from my reflux column at 94%+ .. Watered down too 40% and made up a bottle of "Ambrosia whisky essence" you MUST Shake every day and leave for 7 days or more ( the 7 days is a must ! )

You can do better... Your friends advice sounds like the blind leading the blind... You need good quality neutral spirits to mix flavor essences into and haphazard production using turbo yeast and no cuts is not the way to get to where you want/need to be... Concentrate more on making good spirits and less on masking the bad results using flavoring and you'll be impressed with the improvement in the quality of the resulting spirits...