Beginner Questions

[chrisando]

Hello All

Just got a few more questions; regarding the operation of the reflux still

So Olddog built me a reflux column, bokabob design. It looks awesome, he does a great job.
I 'found' two kegs, got myself a 3 ring burner, 9kg gas bottle, hose etc.

Setup
Reflux Still
2" Column, Bokabob
Keg Boiler
3 Ring gas Burner
Cooling via pump + recylcing tank water

Mash
Birdwatchers mash; will use it for a cleaning/test run.

This is my planned process; with questions. please correct anything that jumps out at you.

Stripping Run
- Remove packing.Do i have to cap the column?
- Fill boiler with wash; valve wide open, collect from beggining. stop when temp reaches ~97c
- Collect low wines; storing in a spare s/s keg.
- Do a few runs; until i have enough for spirit run

Spirit Run
Firstly Should i dilute Low Wines to 40%ABV? safety?
- Follow intructions on Husker's "LM Still Operation Instructions"
Roughly how much foreshots should i collect. lets say a 30L charge
- Do Cuts, according to kiwistiller's "Novice Guide for Cuts"
What size collection jars is good. 250ml, 500ml?

Diluting
Ive read alot about using quality water to dilute, to get a better end-product?
Ive heard people say
- Boil Tap Water
- Distilled Water from shop
- Shop brought water
- Distill your own water
What is the most common?

Thanks

[chrisando]

I have done alot of reading; im new to distilling, but have read this forum, many ebooks. all ive dont for the past month or two is searching and reading.
The questions i am asking are ones i couldn't find definitive answers too, many answers i found contradict each other (porbably personal preference); so i just want an extra opinion.
But thanks for your suggestion; although not very helpful.

I really just want to confirm what i have read, and prevent any mistakes i might make by poor method.

[Kentucky shinner]

You do not need to cap your bok. the condenser should knock all the vapor down. yes Leave your valve all the way open.
I would collect 500ml of fores. I collect 500ml when I do my spririt run because I dont care if I catch some heads. I want to make sure I get all of the fores. I think you have the rest dead on.
Yes i missed this on the first post. For sure dillute your wash to 40% ABV
Good catch Dunder Thanks
KS

[Dnderhead]

no you should not cap your still. your reflux condenser should take care of any vapor.
yes dilute, this is for safety as well as for better product.
I thank 500ml is excessive fore shots , more like 100-200ml
500ml jars should be good maybe a bit less at starting and at the end of run.
the water you dilute with is up to you,good tap water is fine unless you have heavy minerals or anything in your water then you should consider something else.
as these can make your product cloudy.

[Bayou-Ruler]

chrisando, I apologize for my previous reply.

[Pikluk]

if this is your cleaning run don't "Collect low wines; storing in a spare s/s keg."
trash it.

for striping i don't know how your column been build but i use a shorter and unpacked column.
unpacking your column for striping is not always as easy as it sound.
insulating you column can help.

if you intend to drink you "vodka" strait i'd recommend good water
if you gonna make drinks with it then it probably won't matter.
as for "good water" i wouldn't use store brought spring water
distilled or demineralized water.
first unless your tap water taste bad i would try the tap make things lot simpler .
if your tap from the city let it air a bit to get rid of the chlorine.

[rad14701]

I'm going to mention one issue here that I have never mentioned in other topics regarding running a reflux column with a needle valve in stripping mode... Even when wide open the needle valve may not allow 100% of the condensed distillate to be removed without unintended reflux... For this reason I am will be completely removing my needle valve for future strip runs and replacing it with a straight-through coupler to see how much additional flavor carries over into the low wines...

[Samohon]

I'm going to mention one issue here that I have never mentioned in other topics regarding running a reflux column with a needle valve in stripping mode... Even when wide open the needle valve may not allow 100% of the condensed distillate to be removed without unintended reflux... For this reason I am will be completely removing my needle valve for future strip runs and replacing it with a straight-through coupler to see how much additional flavor carries over into the low wines...

Good point Rad, I actually done this as I was not convinced that the 1/4" needle valve was allowing all collected distillate on the collection plate inside the Bok head, to withdraw through the valve. Causing unwanted reflux... I removed the valve and connected with a 1/4" couplar sealed with PTFE tape. Guess what? Nearly 1L - 1.2L per hour was released to my glass funnel. Still not as quick as my pot still though and thought it significant enough to mention this to members using their Boks to strip their washes.

Joe (rednose), did mention to me some time back to change the take-off for the Bok to 3/8", but I just used what was to hand...

Interesting.... And I still think that, apart from the needle valve being removed, 1/4" pipe is still causing the Bok to add un-wanted reflux...

I usually do all stripping with my pot still, so dont mind the 1/4" pipe/needle. But an interesting observation for them using the Bok to strip washes...

[Samohon]

@chrisando, good luck distilling with your new rig man... OD sure knows how to build em...

I'll just echo what the other guys have already said... Never, under any circumstances, cap your rig man...

It should remain open to the atmosphere at all times...

Have fun experimenting chrisando and be safe...

[olddog]

This still was built to double as a Bok and a potstill, it has a permanent cap on the column with a vent hole in the center, the takeoff is 3/8" not the traditional 1/4"to make it more efficient when in potstill mode.


OD

[Kentucky shinner]

I run a 3/8 take off tube on my bok with my needle valve all the way open I can run one hell of a stream. I can take of liter every 15 min.

[Pikluk]

i hope this depend on the power intake.
because in potstill mod/striping depending on what im doing "basiclly the same"
i barely get a steady stream
pretty sure a 1/4" pipe can do a steady stream.
to get more distillate then a 1/4" pipe can handle i think would be a lot
but we talking about the needle valve
but i did see continuous stream from my still in the early hearth part with low wine charges
i do am only running on 1100watt hotplate.

but i will "next time i go to the hardware store" get a strait fitting to replace the valve.
if only to test.

Kentucky shinner
how do you run you still? electric? if so how many watts?
propane? btu?

thats the only thing i could think i could have done better on my still
using 3/8 pipe instead of 1/4 pipe on my bok.
that and not trying to order a keg from stilldrinkin :p those basterds...

[Kentucky shinner]

I am running propane I think it is a 50,000 BTU burner. Once i get the bok up to temp I can back it off to less than halfway. At the end of the run when I hit the tails I can fire up my burner crank up the water flow and open the needle. She will put out a hell of a stream.

[Pikluk]

i don't know why i asked the btu since i have no idea what 50000 btu represent in watts lol .

[Dnderhead]

"i have no idea what 50000 btu represent in watts lol"
1465w .293w=1w
with a pot still the out put will depend on how much heat you apply, the amount of alcohol in wash, the size of take off/lyne arm.

[chrisando]

Thanks for all the replies.

I did my first stripping run today.

- got about 6L out of a 20L wash. abv of low wines is about 50%.

- was taking 1L per 30min. Is there anyway to improve this. it has a 3/8 takeoff. more heat didnt seem to make a difference? (i have a 31mj burner)

- i sprung a leak in the condenser input solder joint. (must have got knocked). is there any simple fix i can apply (without soldering). i used some superglue and it fixed 90% of it; but not sure if it will last. Is silicon worth a shot?

- Every now and then throughout the run, i would get a couple of puffs of vapour/steam coming through the vent at the top of the coloumn. is this normal? shouldnt the condenser be knocking it all down. The water output was cold, so it was running a very fast flow.

- im considering insulating the column; for efficiancy and performence. would foam pipe insulation be the easiest/cheapest way?

Cheers

[Pikluk]

try putting some mesh/scrubers in the coil will help cooling all the vapors.

if you get foam for insulation get the one for hot pipe not the lite gray one for cold pipe.
a thick cotton towel will do the trick or cardboard i heard works too.

[Thorn_veritas]

i sprung a leak in the condenser input solder joint. (must have got knocked). is there any simple fix i can apply (without soldering). i used some superglue and it fixed 90% of it; but not sure if it will last. Is silicon worth a shot?

Superglue- NO , you have to remove this superglue it might not have very much contact with the vapour but it will have some which will cause all sorts of problems to your body and the body of anyone that drinks your stuff !

Silicon- NO Just NO do a search on it you will find many good reasons not to use it

an easy way to fix the hole is flour paste: water and flour thats it, make a wet dough then just dab some over the hole ( just make sure you remove that glue first )

No 1 rule on hd NO PLASTIC except ptfe tape or seals

[Kentucky shinner]

No Super glue and No silicone The best thing to do is resolder the joint. I know your thinking its just on my condenser, but vapor may be coming in contact. If it is on the outside of your column your joint could break then your gonna be putting hot High octane alcohol vapor in the atmosphere which could be catastophic if your running a open flame.. Dont chance it resolder the joint. As far as the puffing from the vent Try adding a copper scubber to the condenser but you should not need it if your condenser is working properly. You may have been putting to much heat in the boiler also. when I get mine up to temp I can turn my burner down some and it maintains good reflux.

[olddog]

The 1/4" coil tubing is hard soldered through the cap and cannot leak into the column, it is then sleeved with 3/8"then 1/2"and soft soldered to the cap. If there is any leakage it can only leak outside of the column, and a slick of solder to re-seal will fix.


OD

[chrisando]

I have 2x20L washes going at the moment. so i will have 40L i can do a stripping run on.
I will probably wait until i have a 35-40L charge of low wines @ 40% before doing a reflux run

However i want to do a reflux run as a bit of practice.
I have 6L of low wines at 40%; is this enough to do a bit of practice on? (50L keg boiler). My guess is the lower the quantity the harder it is to make cuts? is this the only issue?

Also, how long can i leave a fermented wash; before i have to distill it. It would be sitting in a air locked fermenter; or a keg that is airtight? couple of weeks, months?

[Braz]

I have 2x20L washes going at the moment. so i will have 40L i can do a stripping run on.
I will probably wait until i have a 35-40L charge of low wines @ 40% before doing a reflux run

However i want to do a reflux run as a bit of practice.
I have 6L of low wines at 40%; is this enough to do a bit of practice on? (50L keg boiler). My guess is the lower the quantity the harder it is to make cuts? is this the only issue?

Also, how long can i leave a fermented wash; before i have to distill it. It would be sitting in a air locked fermenter; or a keg that is airtight? couple of weeks, months?

Not sure what reflux still you are working with but with my 2" Bok it would take almost forever to run a 35-40L charge of 40% low wines. I generally run 12 liter batches and need to block out at least 8-10 hours from start to finish.

I'd say go ahead with your 6L practice run. Run it slow and collect in 200ML increments. Then you can smell/taste and make your cuts after letting it air 24 hours or so.

How long a wash will last probably depends on the wash itself, the ambient temp and a whole lot of other factors. I'm fortunate to have a spare refrigerator to store fermented washes in. I've held sugar washes in the 'frige for six weeks with no problems.

[Kentucky shinner]

I generally run 6 gallon low wines which would be about 24 liters in my 2" bok. It will generally take me about 8 hours. I have done it in 6 hours but when I got into the hearts I really cranked the heat up. I think it is better to run slower than faster. Just plan a day where you will have no interruptions and enjoy.
I love long runs myself.
KS

[still crazy]

"i have no idea what 50000 btu represent in watts lol"
1465w .293w=1w
with a pot still the out put will depend on how much heat you apply, the amount of alcohol in wash, the size of take off/lyne arm.

Question: should that be .0293btu = 1w or 14,650W

[Dnderhead]

I guess I screwed that up,, 1 BTU= .293 watts. so 5000BTUs =1465watts

[still crazy]

Thanks for that cause I was trying to figure out a BTU to watt conversion and I wanted to be sure.
Going to turn my 2 1/2 Gallon stainless fire extinguisher into a 1500 W potstill stripper with (1) refillable fill port and (2) a drain/dump.

Oh OH
I just got an brainjam
I have 6 ea 2 1/2 extinguishers if set these in a row.
Then outlet from #1 into #2 then # 2to #3 ....... til I have 6 stages.
I could charge each with water use 1500 watts in #1 and 1000Watts in the others.

Ideas , comments , feedback please.