jacketed column coolant question

[clacker]

Hi all,

After pot stilling *terrible* vodka for the last 12 months I've acquired a small reflux head (~600ml) with a cooling jacket that covers both the column and condenser off to the side.

One thing I'm stuck on is cooling. I really don't want to just plumb it in to the tap and waste all the water but I can't find much information on how much this type of head will use water. I'm guessing the jacketed column is to make up for the short length so the water will be doing more work than just knocking the condenser output down.

If I attach this to a pot with about 15 litres of wash...anyone care to guess what size water vessel at 25C I'd need to have half a chance?

Thankyou for any responses and the informative posts and community.

[Austin Nichols]

My little CM still I had would use about 250 liters in a four hour run.

You could use a couple of 44 gallon drums to store your water in one, and transfer through the still with a pond pump to the other drum.

Cheers.

[myles]

Recirculating water from a drum with a pump should do it. Fit in the bigest drum you can conveniently fit in your still room. If you find that you need more water you can always plumb in some additional tanks, either inside or outside.

Have the hot return from your still putting water into the end tank in the chain and let gravity / syphon deal with the water flow between the tanks.

I haven't connected it up yet but am going to fit a float valve to the 160 litre drum inside the still room and have the hot water feed to a set of 2 or 3 stonking big 350 gallon drums outside the barn (rainwater storage) that will re-fill my little drum via the float valve.

[Kentucky shinner]

Hey there clacker, why dont you stop by the welcome section and tell us a little something about yourself. If you can post a pic of your set up here so we can see what you have. Many folks on here recirculate water and use large trash cans for a water tank. I personally use my swimming pool.
welcome to the forum.
Kentucky Shinner

[clacker]

Thanks very much for the responses so far guys. I have young kids and not a great deal of space so dedicated containers is not an option for me.

Austin -

That is more water than I was anticipating on; I thought I could get away with maybe a 60 litre tub from Bunnings or something similar. I currently use a 30 litre tub for my pot worm but I guess knowing the coolant was also keeping the column in check was going to add up to plenty of hot water. I do have a 1700 litre rain water tank...not in the best of positions but that may be my best enviro friendly option. Having said that..what's the chances of my rain water tank getting nasties growing in there due to warm water from a still run?

Myles -

Having a "still room", let alone a room with enough space to hold a drum is a distant dream for me. I used the change table in our laundry whenever I cranked up the pot still! A few containers like you and Austin have suggested might be the go though.

Kentucky -

Thanks for the welcome. When I get hold of the head and get a chance to take some pics I'll do that providing everyone is gentle as I run a two-bit operation here. I'm the only one that'll drink my vodka (did a double distill + carbon for the wife that went down a treat but she can't tell Pepsi and Coke apart so not a real good test). I do keep records on purchases though and I'm up $2K in 2 years over buying commercial stuff so I can stomach a lot for that kind of saving! I hope there is a place for my kind here.

Thanks again.

[Samohon]

Welcome to HD clacker... Head on over to the Welcome Center..., a picture really does it for us here at HD...

Stay safe man...

Glad to have you...

[Austin Nichols]

Thanks very much for the responses so far guys. I have young kids and not a great deal of space so dedicated containers is not an option for me.

Austin -

what's the chances of my rain water tank getting nasties growing in there due to warm water from a still run?

I'm not sure but I was doing exactly that for about 3 months and didnt have a problem (not sure if it's good or not), I'm om tank water here myself.

I went out and bought one of those 1000 liter plastic tank for a hundred bucks off ebay, just pump from the bottom and run the hot water back into the top, it's been working great.

[clacker]

Thanks for the welcome Samohan... really appreciate it!

I'm waiting for the head so I'll post up some pics then. Had a massive score with my pot today...found a stainless steel bowl that *perfectly* fits my stock pot. Bought an $8 kettle that has a great 2200 watt element with an IEC connection that is easy to port over so I'm really stoked!

I'm not sure the interest that a 19 litre pot build will generate but I'll post up my steps so people (in Aus at least) can replicate.

Staying safe?!? I'm dealing with mains and 90% vapour but it keeps me off the streets!!

[clacker]

I'm not sure but I was doing exactly that for about 3 months and didnt have a problem (not sure if it's good or not), I'm om tank water here myself.

I went out and bought one of those 1000 liter plastic tank for a hundred bucks off ebay, just pump from the bottom and run the hot water back into the top, it's been working great.

Tank water is my only option so I'll be cranking that. I've got an old 1000l/h pump here that I'll try and rig first otherwise I'll look for a bigger unit.

Seems like I'm in for a rough time babying my CM still... oh well... gotta work for the good things right!

[clacker]

I'm still thinking of a way of using a smaller amount of water that gets cooled via a coil or some such. Without the head, I don't know what type of rate I'll be dealing with but can anyone offer advice?

I'm thinking 60 litre bin, 1000L/h pond pump through the column and back up 600mm or so to 3m coiled copper with a fan blowing down the length back into the bin.

I seem to recall reading maybe 1l/min is about right for a total reflux stage but not sure if that would apply to a 600mm CM full jacket head??

[myles]

Here is an even easier option for you clacker - seeing as you already have the rainwater storage tank. Just put a big coil in the tank and possibly fit a small copper tank in line with your coil inside your big tank too, just to boost the volume of water in your system.

You may wish to add in a header tank also. No worries about rainwater in your system. It is just a stonking big heat exchanger with no 'drum' or 'tank' in your still room to worry about. Clean, easy and discrete.

[clacker]

I was thinking of an option other than the water tank due to its location but I've accepted that I'm probably going to have enough issues with my CM still without adding slowly creeping coolant water to the mix so a small circuit is out for the moment. Closest rooms to our tank is master bed/ensuite and I'm unlikely to get permission to take over *that * area..

My mate works for a irrigation company so he's lending me a pump with a decent head value for my trial runs so I can move to room at the back to see what 1700 litres of water is going to do over a few hours.

[myles]

I was thinking of an option other than the water tank due to its location but I've accepted that I'm probably going to have enough issues with my CM still without adding slowly creeping coolant water to the mix so a small circuit is out for the moment. Closest rooms to our tank is master bed/ensuite and I'm unlikely to get permission to take over *that * area..

My mate works for a irrigation company so he's lending me a pump with a decent head value for my trial runs so I can move to room at the back to see what 1700 litres of water is going to do over a few hours.

Slowly creeping coolant? I was still thinking of having the coolant pumped through the system. I use a submerged water butt pump, 1.1 bar, 11m head and 2200 litres / hr flow rate. It doesn't really matter how long the pipe run is, it will still give you a good flow rate. The small copper tank I mentioned is to hold the submerged pump in your issolated system. You could just run the rainwater through the coolant lines if you add in a filter on your pump input it will be fine.

[clacker]

Slowly creeping coolant? I was still thinking of having the coolant pumped through the system. I use a submerged water butt pump

Sorry, I meant in terms of creeping coolant temperature in a small coolant circuit of say 120 litres. It seems that may be a problem for a CM head to get stability.

I'll use my tank water for my first run which should be in a few days as I've got the head now and I'm just mating the SS bowl and pot together.

[clacker]

I was just thinking...does the lower outlet tube need to come up above the inlet tube to make sure the jacket fills with water?

If the outlet pipe is lower...wouldn't the coolant just run out with the main column devoid of water?

||---||
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[olddog]

I can't understand your diagrams at all. Can you draw it using windows paint, and then upload as an attachment, or draw it freehand, scan and then upload.


OD

[rad14701]

For a jacketed column you can't run counterflow coolant unless you have a valve at the bottom outlet so that your water pressure keeps the water jacket full at all times...

[clacker]

Below is a pic of the head I have.

I thought about but the tap on the lower outlet pipe but read that having hot water under pressure was a no-no.

If the outlet hose goes up above the top of the head before going back to the drain then that should keep the jacket full shouldn't it?

Thanks

[prospector86]

I've always made ice up to cool my columm, in the winter use snow. Need to know when your distilling, but can recycle the water when it's too hot.

[myles]

Below is a pic of the head I have.

I thought about but the tap on the lower outlet pipe but read that having hot water under pressure was a no-no.

If the outlet hose goes up above the top of the head before going back to the drain then that should keep the jacket full shouldn't it?

Thanks

Clacker I ALWAYS put my flow control valve on the output of any of my condensers. Does not matter if it is a reflux condenser of a liebig as I want to ensure that the condenser is full of water. If you put your flow control on the input it is easy to have it coming out faster than it goes in at low flow rates and you end up with air in the condenser.

The only exception is the worm bucket, as the outlet is a surface level overflow. The input is valved and feeds into the bottom of the bucket so that condenser has a dedicated return hose to the tank.

A lot of folks like to run their reflux condensers warm so as not to overcool the column. Valve on the output is the way to go.

I have full pressure from my pump feeding the input from all my condensers (all independently fed but with a common return) and do not bother with diverters on the pump - but I run a water butt pump that is designed to provide continuous mains pressure water at 1.1bar.

[rad14701]

clacker, I don't think folks are gonna like the pop-ups generated by your image host... Why not upload them directly into your posts using the upload feature...??? I got a couple of pop-ups that I might have worried about if I was running a Windows based browser when I attempted to see a full-sized picture...

[clacker]

clacker, I don't think folks are gonna like the pop-ups generated by your image host... Why not upload them directly into your posts using the upload feature...??? I got a couple of pop-ups that I might have worried about if I was running a Windows based browser when I attempted to see a full-sized picture...

Thanks for the heads up, I've added the image as an attachment.

[clacker]

Clacker I ALWAYS put my flow control valve on the output of any of my condensers. Does not matter if it is a reflux condenser of a liebig as I want to ensure that the condenser is full of water. If you put your flow control on the input it is easy to have it coming out faster than it goes in at low flow rates and you end up with air in the condenser.

Yeah that made more sense to me. I tried a run with the tap on the inlet and feel comfortable now with the pressure so I'll move the tap to the outlet.

I've always made ice up to cool my columm, in the winter use snow. Need to know when your distilling, but can recycle the water when it's too hot.

My ultimate goal is to use recylced water. I'm trying to work out how much I use in a run to figure my coolant temps.

[rad14701]

The follow-up post by myles still points to the site with pop-ups... myles, can you still edit that post...???