RUNNING A BOKA TWIN SLANT PLATE REFLUX COLUMN

[still crazy]

Wrote out a run set of instructions for a member and though I would post here.
Feel free to comment and I will edit with any info I might have missed or be in error.

These instruction are for a twin slate plate design head column
>> using copper packing
>> having a column mounted parrot (optional)

<<< Pack column so that you can breathe thru the tube
<<< mount your column on the boiler and test your water flow thru the condenser
<<< apply heat to boiler and turn on your cooling water < flow can be slow until temp begins to rise
<<< the goal of packing is to slow down the vapor and let it condense as it rises
<<< this allows the water (it will cool first) to drop out and return to the boiler
<<< by doing this your purest alcohol will rise up to your condenser as vapor
<<< the vapor will then condense back to a liquid where it drops down onto your slant plates
<<< your take off valve should be open and your condenser output warm to the touch
<<< arrange your collection jars and using masking tape and a sharpie number the jars for future reference (date and type of wash is good here too}
<<< watch your temp and as the temp rises thru the acetone/methanol range (54C/130F-71C/160F) draw off the distillate and discard (FORESHOTS)
<<< close the take off tube
<<< watch your temp and let column equalize at (78C/172F) your are now refluxing ethanol < our target product
<<< make heat and water flow adjustment as needed
<<< the upper plate will shed the liquid into the lower plate which is acting like a cup
<<< the cup plate overflow will be directed back down the center of the column via the notch in the plate
<<< after allowing the column to reflux for about 15 minutes
<<< slowly open your takeoff valve to the parrot and leave the parrot dump valve open to adjust your drip count
<<< HEADS will come off first and continue thru to HEARTS < you will note subtle temp differences
<<< when you are happy with your drip close the dump valve and insert your alcohol meter into your parrot
<<< allow parrot to fill and take ABV reading < for actual reading you will have to adjust for temp.
<<< fill collection jars with approx 1cup/300ml and number jars for reference
<<< TAILS will start at approx. 174F
<<< continue collecting until you reach 82C (180F)

SHUT her down age open for 1 week min cover containers with cloth tops < I use squares of old sheets (natural fiber) cotton

[Ayay]

Wrote out a run set of instructions for a member and though I would post here.
Feel free to comment and I will edit with any info I might have missed or be in error.

These instruction are for a twin slate plate design head column
>> using copper packing
>> having a column mounted parrot (optional)

<<< Pack column so that you can breathe thru the tube
<<< mount your column on the boiler and test your water flow thru the condenser
<<< apply heat to boiler and turn on your cooling water < flow can be slow until temp begins to rise
<<< the goal of packing is to slow down the vapor and let it condense as it rises
<<< this allows the water (it will cool first) to drop out and return to the boiler
<<< by doing this your purest alcohol will rise up to your condenser as vapor
<<< the vapor will then condense back to a liquid where it drops down onto your slant platesThe packing slows down the decending condensates - suspends them - and keeps them mingling with the rising vapors. The decending liquids give their alc to the rising vapors and the rising vapors give their water to the decending liquids. Thus the alc is concentrated at the top of the column
<<< your take off valve should be openclosed and your condenser output warm to the touch
<<< arrange your collection jars and using masking tape and a sharpie number the jars for future reference (date and type of wash is good here too}
<<< watch your temp and as the temp rises thru the acetone/methanol range (54C/130F-71C/160F) draw off the distillate and discard (FORESHOTS)
<<< close the take off tube
<<< watch your temp and let column equalize at (78C/172F) your are now refluxing ethanol < our target product
<<< make heat and water flow adjustment as needed
<<< the upper plate will shed the liquid into the lower plate which is acting like a cup
<<< the cup plate overflow will be directed back down the center of the column via the notch in the plate
<<< after allowing the column to reflux for about 15 minutes
<<< slowly open your takeoff valve to the parrot and leave the parrot dump valve open to adjust your drip count
<<< HEADS will come off first and continue thru to HEARTS < you will note subtle temp differences
<<< when you are happy with your drip close the dump valve and insert your alcohol meter into your parrot
<<< allow parrot to fill and take ABV reading < for actual reading you will have to adjust for temp.
<<< fill collection jars with approx 1cup/300ml and number jars for reference
<<< TAILS will start at approx. 174F
<<< continue collecting until you reach 82C (180F)Revise all this after doing a search on this topic. There's some good descriptions here already and you are finding out the hard an happy way . The parrot is not needed on a reflux still because it is run on the thermometer rather than %alc. Your description is a mixture between a pot still and a reflux still. Yes the % alc is tested after the dust settles but the % will be the max that the still will produce...should be over 90% for the whole run except for the last bit where the tails are stripped without worrying about the reflux.
SHUT her down age open for 1 week min cover containers with cloth tops < I use squares of old sheets (natural fiber) cotton

[still crazy]

Ayay
I added,with edit some of your vapor comments.
The takeoff valve MUST be open as your reflux still comes to heat as the bad shit FORESHOTS come off at a lower temp and should be removed as soon as they start to form. If you don't take them off at the start of the run when and how are you going to CUT them?
Also leaving the foreshot vapor within the column will form a layer of poison vapor that slows the temps down. Kind of like a cushion on top.
Lastly the comment about not needing as parrot is totally an individual choice. Note that I pre-qualified this by identifying this component in the opening comments.

[Pooyan]

The takeoff valve MUST be open as your reflux still comes to heat as the bad shit FORESHOTS come off at a lower temp and should be removed as soon as they start to form. If you don't take them off at the start of the run when and how are you going to CUT them?

Interesting point, and it seems logical if you think about it, why keeping the nasties for a longer period in the still if they want to go out first?? other LM still operation instructions found here on HD talk about keeping the valve closed while putting the still in equilibrium for half an hour or longer and than take of the foreshots/heads by slowly open the valve....the latter is the way i operate my Bok also, with in mind the thought that it would make sense to bleed off the fores after equilibrium so that by keeping everything in equilibrium the fores are better separated (compressed) thus giving you a "cleaner" heads part to keep for a future (feins) run.
(if my way of thinking is correct....)

Pooyan

[still crazy]

* Acetone 56.5C (134F)
* Methanol (wood alcohol) 64C (147F)
* Ethyl acetate 77.1C (171F)
* Ethanol 78C (172F)
* 2-Propanol (rubbing alcohol) 82C (180F)
* 1-Propanol 97C (207F)
* Water 100C (212F)
* Butanol 116C (241F)
* Amyl alcohol 137.8C (280F)
* Furfural 161C (322F)

With the above chart in mind.
Why wait till you reach equilibrium 172, when the bad crap is all there to take off at lower temp?
So at equilibrium your foreshots is not muddled in with your ethanol!
To me this is like changing your oil and draining the old oil as your adding the new.

[Hdflhx]

still crazy wrote:
The takeoff valve MUST be open as your reflux still comes to heat as the bad shit FORESHOTS come off at a lower temp and should be removed as soon as they start to form. If you don't take them off at the start of the run when and how are you going to CUT them?




I am a newbe and could be wrong as I often am but from my understanding from what I have read on running a LM, the longer you let the column run at equilibrium the better the fores will seperate at the top of the column and be ready to come off first.

[rad14701]

One aspect of structured packing not mentioned is that it provides nucleation points which help condense the rising vapor at differing fractional densities with heavier water condensing lower in the column than lighter alcohols which continue to rise...

[Ayay]

Ayay
I added,with edit some of your vapor comments.
The takeoff valve MUST be open as your reflux still comes to heat as the bad shit FORESHOTS come off at a lower temp and should be removed as soon as they start to form. If you don't take them off at the start of the run when and how are you going to CUT them?
Also leaving the foreshot vapor within the column will form a layer of poison vapor that slows the temps down. Kind of like a cushion on top.
Lastly the comment about not needing as parrot is totally an individual choice. Note that I pre-qualified this by identifying this component in the opening comments.

Cheers sc, you may be onto something new and worth while.

Pot stillin without a column, yes the first drips come out real early and they will be the earliest foreshots. During the stabilization of a reflux column with the needle valve closed, all the fores and early heads will be concentrated at the top ready to bleed off. The reflux (cooled condensates going back down the column) are self-balancing in a column, if they condense at 56.5*C then they will go back down at 55*c and keep the top of the column cooler. The magic 'latent heat of evaporation' is playing inside the column. The method you describe may separate the acetones and the meths better, while a stabilised reflux column will blend the fores with the early heads a little and they all get thrown into the meths bottle together.

My experience with a 1M packed LM column is everything worth drinkin comes out at 95% guaranteed. Fores/early heads measure 96% because they are bled off at 1 to 2 drips/sec after stabilization at the lowest heat my gas burner can do. I'm sure the acetones and meths come out first followed by an increasing blend of fores and early heads. After that I increase the heat (to maintain plenty of reflux) and open the take-off to 3-4 drips/sec for the late heads and right through the hearts and early tails. When the temp rises a point or two I have to decrease the take-off to maintain the temp that the hearts were doing. This tells me the tails are coming through. When I have to go back to 2 drips/sec it's all over...I open the tap fully and strip till the temp hits 96*C, and the % will steadily drop to around 40% because hardly any reflux is happening. My cuts are between late heads/hearts, and hearts/early tails. No late heads nor early tails for me

Your method may work very well. I can see your reasoning but depending on your column height it may be far simpler to trust the thermometer alone. It's the tried and true way of the reflux column and a parrot should stubbornly sit at one reading while smearing some the output inside it's 100ml mixing bowl.

[crazyk78]

Just thought I'd chime in and give my 2 bob's worth.

I also think that this is an easy way to look at what comes off at what and running with a wide open valve from the get go is fine, however, like Ayay says you would need to control whats going on by the thermometer and as soon as the column temp starts to rise back off the heat and run.

The idea would be that you need to run at the certain temp for a certain period in order to pull off all of the vapor.

If you merely start with an open valve and let the system work through the temp ranges, then you are going to leave behind what you don't want, and if this is the case then you are better off letting it run to equilibrium and blend it through.

Anyways, just my thoughts but pleased to be able to read how someone else runs their bok.

[FreeMountainHermit]

Pretty late to reply to this thread but here's my 2 cents.

Run your Boka as a pot and draw off all the nasties plus a little more to be sure and discard. Repack a make your run.

Better yet have an extra pot head on hand to remove the junk then clamp on your Boka and go for it.

FMH.

[Budapest8485]

So it it possible to get all tails? My first spirit run was about 177-178 the entire time.

[Expat]

This is a pretty old thread, what are you trying to ask?

Drop me a PM if you want.