Arduino anyone?

[Sr WiNdTech]

Has anybody used an Arduino or the like and incorporated it into their still in any way?

I'm looking at building a very modular still and looking to incorporate the Arduino where i can.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we are looking at specific temps most of the time to determine our final product. Now I know it will take quite a bit of time to perfect the programming and such, but once you get going and you have found your "best" recipe I think it would be possibly to automate some of the process, it's not that I wouldn't like "cooking" but there comes a point I'm sure where you just want to get it done, and it may be possible to get it done without the "eagle eye babysitting factor".

Possibly have temperature set points where it will activate a servo to turn your output into another container, etc... then you could effectively have 4-5 jars of your hearts, tails, etc... Or just to simply activate an alarm to let you know your 2 degrees away from checking on the product. I can't think of every possible scenario for this as I've only been a member for 2 days, and been reading the forum for 3 days.

Or perhaps adjust your water flow, valves, or energy source.

If you have any idea or actually spent some time with an Arduino or the like, I'd love to hear about it.

[blanikdog]

... but there comes a point I'm sure where you just want to get it done, and it may be possible to get it done without the "eagle eye babysitting factor". ...

It may well be possible, but what happens when (not if) something does go wrong? Remember the aim of this forum - I'm sure that you have read rule nine (9) along with all the others. Accidents occuring because someone wasn't 'babysitting' their still would do little to help our cause

Stay Safe

[Sr WiNdTech]

Sorry, with that quote I said eagle eye, as in standing there watching it for hours. I would still be in the same area as the still but may want to be doing some ammo reloading at the same time or whatever ya know.

[goose eye]

you ever hear bout popcorn barn that got got burned up

so im tole

[Mr.Spooky]

my water pump shut off during a run... if i wasent there paying attention to everything that was going on,, i might of had a problem,,, a big problem.... i dont think that you gotta eagle eye it or anything, but if you cant check your rig at least once a minuete, you aint got time for it.
spooky

[Sr WiNdTech]

my water pump shut off during a run... if i wasent there paying attention to everything that was going on,, i might of had a problem,,, a big problem.... i dont think that you gotta eagle eye it or anything, but if you cant check your rig at least once a minuete, you aint got time for it.
spooky

Hmm... You see..... I work on very advanced AUTOMATED Wind Turbines... I know a little bit about automation, there are ways to completely babysit a still without a person anywhere nearby... is it overkill... YES... but hey... I go 110% on everything. Money is no options if I really want something.

I think it's possible, hell simple alarms to let me know when it's on fire, or it's leaking, or there is no water pressure, or no liquid coming out of the take off... whatever... but my point is that it's all possible. Now in a sense that isn't automated, kinda, but kinda not... but eventually I want to have it adjust the heat source, adjust the water pressure, adjust every aspect of this to turning off the heat and having a carousel of jars rotating when it hits a different stage in distillation, done by temperature or even alcohol content. I know it's different for everyone and their still, this will only be on my still, I will make many many runs with this still to determine the average setpoints and such.

There are alot of old school thoughts on this forum and that's fine, to each there own, but when I come in here trying to do something few people have tried and failed at doesn't mean I can't do it. Just wait and see...

"Sorry I blew up"

[Mr.Spooky]

yup... i never said not to do it,, but you ask so i gave an example that hapened to me.. i always think about the way cars use to be. people had therir hands on them, and built them by hand,, thats why we have so many nice clasic cars... now, the newer cars are built by robots and stuff like that. people hardly touch em,,, thats why they usually arent worth a crap BEFORE you get them paid off.
as with anything you do,, keep a fire extenguisher around,, or alot of water...
i hope it works out for you though,, that would be cool as hell to see,,,,,,,,,,,,and in the event of a unmand catastorphy,, it will all be documented by cameras and everything.......... and that would be cool as hell to see too
sounds like a WIN WIN
spooky

[ArkyJ]

I'v gone thru quite a few hobbies in my time. Some quite complicated and so complicated to the point that... Well, they ain't hobbies no more.
I like fishing. I like fishing from the bank. Sitting in a lawn chair with a bobber floating 10 feet in front of me. Had a bass boat and a motor that got me down the lake so fast my lips were flapping on the side of my face. Gages to tell how fast I was agoing. Gages to tell me where the fish was, the water temp, PH. Don't have a bass boat no more. KInda like sitting along the bank and... I love to travel. Always have. Got to the point that I had one of them rear push motor homes. Damn thing cost twice as much as my house and got 6mpg going down hill. It had everything you could think of inside. To include a 60in color TV.. I kinda like my ol pickup with the popup camper in the bed now and it seems, I have more fun.
There are other hobbies that have come and gone and the latest is here. Wasn't sure if I would like it or not, but it's had it's laughs. You all told me I was crazy for laughing as I watched the bubble and grains of sweetfeed rise in the carboy. That's OK. My hobbie not yours.
Some here hook up computers and all sorts of machines to measure this and to do that and it's your hobbie not mine, but to do that so you can play or work at something else? Me? I kinda like sitting in front of a still. Watching as it goes drip, drip, drip... Mind kinda wanders to past adventures and... I guess I am getting old and I am glad to slow down. Looking forward to spring, sitting along the bank, pole in one hand and maybe just something to sip on. Remembering the fast times and glad they belong to someone else now.
ArkyJ

[LWTCS]

Your good windtech.

Guess we are of the "better safe than sorry" mind set. Lots of us would love to see what you can come up with but that doesn't mean that pitfalls won't be pointed out.

This kind of thing has to be hammer'd a bit, as lots of folks don't know what they don't know.

Good luck and stay safe

[loneswinger]

You should purchase Riku's book "Designing and Building Automatic Stills" There is also sequel but I have not read it. Complete automation is possible, you do not need as many adjustments as you might think, i.e. heat or coolant flow probably won't need adjustment throughout a run.

In terms of safety, an output water flow meter and temperature sensor that will shut off the power at certain thresholds would probably be sufficient automatic safety options. You could also put a distillate temp probe on there for good measure. Not much left to go wrong beyond what I just mentioned. I guess the still could fall over or spring a leak but these seem pretty unlikely, neighborhood kids could break in etc. I live stream video of the still and a way to kill power via the internet could be included for extra precaution.

Cheers,

-Loneswinger

[Mr.Spooky]

like i said,, this would be cool to see.. BUT if doing something like this,, i personally would do it in something that was detached from my home.. you could also use electric boiler,, that wat you could truley dile in an exact temp.
good luck,,, cant wait to see!!!
spooky

[Sr WiNdTech]

@ loneswinger - I will definitely check out that book, Thanks!
@Mr.Spooky - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come out the way I did, I had a PM from another member that kind of set me off....(no offense to that member) I will also be using electricity from my solar panels and wind turbine to help out
@LWTCS - I accept constructive criticism, I don't know everything by any means and will need alot of help along the way I'm sure, after all that's why I'm here.
@ArkyJ - I understand what your saying


The reason for doing this isn't because I don't want to watch the still or have no interaction with it, it's mainly because I haven't seen this done, I've seen this or that done but nothing like I'm wanting to do, Loneswinger's book looks to be right up my alley, obviously it's been done before, but I'm assuming this book based on commercial still's and not hobby stills. Just because my still will have automation to it doesn't mean it can't be manually operated. Even if I just end up with alarms for temperature I'll be happy.

I really hope I can get some people behind me with suggestions, comments and questions relating to this.

I'm working on my basic still design now, should have it up on one of the two links in my signature by Wednesday night.
Until then watch this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Ne-7TUVVw

[Mr.Spooky]

that was funny as hell,,,, not sure what it ment though..... chris running around with his junk on fire LOLOL
spooky

[LWTCS]

Carry on Sir and do what you do best.

[Sr WiNdTech]

that was funny as hell,,,, not sure what it ment though..... chris running around with his junk on fire LOLOL
spooky

To be honest I didn't watch that video on youtube, I'm watching the recording of that episode right now. If it didn't show why his junk was on fire, it's because Peter gave Chris some redbull... as you can figure out he went a little to fast...

The reason for the video is because as you know I'm a n00b to distilling, and I'm acting exactly like Peter on red bull. I'm running and diving into this head first with no helmet basically.

[rad14701]

I'll interject that unless you have run a still manually it is going to be pretty tough designing automation... Starting with a nice manual still and then pimp it as you go seems more logical... Trying to build in all the bells and whistles right from the get-go just sounds like a recipe for failure...

Build... Play... Contemplate... And then design the bells and whistles one or two at a time...

Anything is possible at an expense and amount of exasperation...


@ArkyJ

Love the fishing from the bank summation...

[LWTCS]

I'm diving into this head first with no helmet basically.

Well in that case every one take two steps back and wind tech do what you apparently must.

[Sr WiNdTech]

Rad - That is exactly what I'm wanting to do, I think I said in there that I would run my still until I could find an average of certain set points that i would need for automation. I would put my automation on the safe side aswell. Such as keep the hearts all hearts by a good margin, sure I may loose some good hearts but with the setup of having many different bottles made automatically from one batch I should be able to mix and match

[Mr.Spooky]

speaking of cuts,,, how would you determine that?
thanks
spooky

[Sr WiNdTech]

speaking of cuts,,, how would you determine that?
thanks
spooky

Well just based on what I've read, I will either go with a 2degree below temperature alarm route and taste/eye test everything, or I'll go with "safe bet" temp ranges to automatically switch jars.
All that is still a learning process for me right now, but I know it's possible, whether or not it's efficient at it is another thing.

[loneswinger]

Riku's book is targeted for the home distiller, certainly not for commercial rigs. It is mostly concerned with making automatic hobby stills for neutral/vodka production. The ideas could be extended to other types of spirits though.

Cheers,

-Loneswinger

[MuleKicker]

Windtech, I have messed with arduino. Infact the first controller i built for LWTCS is run with an arduino controller. It is simply a multiposition switch input with a PWM output at certain percentages of power. No temp inputs or valve outputs. Im not very experienced at all with programming. It would be cool, and yes do able. But let me tell you this: Get very good running your still manually first. Learn every characteristic and scenario or behavior before attempting this. otherwise all it will do is frustrate you. I know how to run a still, and what it does, I just never got the hang of writing a sketch with any kind of complexity. I read books, visited forums, but never completely grasped it. I needed some hands on with an instructor. I dont learn well by reading.

[Sr WiNdTech]

Windtech, I have messed with arduino. Infact the first controller i built for LWTCS is run with an arduino controller. It is simply a multiposition switch input with a PWM output at certain percentages of power. No temp inputs or valve outputs. Im not very experienced at all with programming. It would be cool, and yes do able. But let me tell you this: Get very good running your still manually first. Learn every characteristic and scenario or behavior before attempting this. otherwise all it will do is frustrate you. I know how to run a still, and what it does, I just never got the hang of writing a sketch with any kind of complexity. I read books, visited forums, but never completely grasped it. I needed some hands on with an instructor. I dont learn well by reading.

That's my plan to run my still until I know how she acts, I will have multiple temp sensors, I'm thinking 4 at this point, so that way I can better judge things. For now I'll start out with 4 analog thermometers for a while until I can get my temp setpoints figured out. I have my design made, but before I show you guys I want to put it in a nice CAD form so you can read it I will be measuring the boil, the vapor in 2 locations, the distillate at my take off valve. I don't think this still will be that easy to make but we'll see, I have most of the parts on order or already have.

Does anybody know of some site glasses that works well for 2"?

[MuleKicker]

Does anybody know of some site glasses that works well for 2"?

Talk to Kentucky shinner. He makes them, they are great.

As for temp sensors, what kind of collumn are you running? I only see a need for 2 sensors in most collumns. One in the boiler and one at the top of the collmn.

[Sr WiNdTech]

I'll PM KS

I'll be running a customized version of a Bokakob. You are right on only needing 2. But as a n00b I feel I can gather more information with more "data points"



And here are quick crappy CAD drawings of my Bokakob
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As you can maybe see... no... you probably can't... but I will have 2 different condenser coils, one on top of the other ( like o's in the number 8 ) Each will both be quad wound, not just double like most people do. There will be alot of surface area on my coil which should drop any vapor in it's path.
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*Revised disc

I noticed it cut the bottom off of this picture, (sometimes, not sure what happened, sometimes it shows, sometimes it doesn't...weird) but it shows the copper disc, under that is another male adapter, So if I need more copper mesh I can always make two of these bottom sections and screw them together to give me 4' of copper mesh
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I'm still working on thermometer placements....

[Sr WiNdTech]

Does anybody know a recipe that would give me something close to this? I have never had any better likker than this

[loneswinger]

I was just taking a look at your drawings.

I don't understand the point of all of the extra plates in the takeoff section, two is sufficient, and it only needs to be a few inches tall, not 12". A quad wound condenser would probably be overkill, but if you want it than go for it, it would look cool. 24" of packing is really not enough if you are going for neutral spirits, I would go with a minimum of 40", but two sections at 24" each would be nice and that is about what I do.

If you don't mind soldering copper to stainless, than the sanitary clamp (tri-clamp) fittings are in my opinion a lot nicer to work with in a modular design than the threaded adapters, but this is a minor convenience issue.

If you are going to put that perforated plate somewhere, I would recommend not attaching it to the column side, but instead attaching it to the boiler side. It is hard to pull the packing out from one side of the column only, even if it is only 24" long, having easy access to both sides would be easier.

Cheers, should be a fun, (and expensive) build. Cheapest online source I have used for copper fittings is: PEX The threaded adapters are about $10 each.

-Loneswinger

[Sr WiNdTech]

- I added the extra plates for turbulence of the vapor plus more contact between the distillate and the vapor and also more copper contact before the takeoff valve.
- It is expensive I just spent 100$ on the 10' of copper pipe because the store I bought it at won't cut it.
- I will have a stainless female sanitary adapter that will thread onto the bottom section.
- 10$ Damn I got ripped I paid anywhere from 15-20$ a piece for my adapters... Thanks for the link!
- As for the perforated plate, I will have it where it is, only because this may used on many different boilers, so I can already have the plate and won't have to screw with any boilers. I will make a long steel rod with a hook to get out the copper mesh.

[loneswinger]

100$ on 10' of 3"??? That is a steal, you kidding?

- I added the extra plates for turbulence of the vapor plus more contact between the distillate and the vapor and also more copper contact before the takeoff valve.

The plates will add little significant liquid/vapor contact. Plus, as drawn, they are above takeoff anyway which is fine for a heads bleed/heads trap, otherwise it is best to draw product from the upper most theoretical plate. Doing otherwise will only require more heads bleeding to get them out. The plates will not create turbulent flow other than perhaps at the plate boundaries. The Reynolds number are too low at the flow speeds (~ 20 in/s) you will have to be anything but laminar. The whole concept of trying to induce turbulent flow in these still is completely unfounded anyway. The condenser will work just fine with laminar flow.

Cheers,

-Loneswinger

[rad14701]

Sr WiNdTech, here's another piece of the puzzle you are apparently missing... In earlier posts you've mentioned multiple data points as well as monitoring for 2 degree temperature changes, etc... The fact of the matter is that cuts are not made based on temperature changes... Your spirit take off can change from heads to hearts to tails with virtually zero change in vapor temperature... The cuts will smell, taste, and feel different, but the vapor temperature may not change or change very little... It all depends on several factors, such as wash composition, %ABV of the wash, reflux column configuration, reflux ratio, heat, cooling, and on and on... I have done entire runs where the temperature never changed 2 degrees F from foreshots through tails...

Please take the advice previously given and just build a simple "Tried and True" design and get distilling so you can gather some hands on experience from which to dream... Your penchant for wanting to innovate is an act of futility until you have real world experience under your belt... I know you going to think I'm nagging, or "old school", but that's where you're wrong... Trust me, I know enough to know when you're going off half-cocked... Again, start with the KISS concept, and go from there... Pick a well supported design and put solder to copper...