uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[ct1870]

PREFERENCE, If you like the taste of corn take the hearts out of each run and put the rest back in the mash for the next run. It will give it a good corn flavor or should i say more of a corn flavor. I have done both and still do. I like to take a little of each run and let it set for a couple of weeks and bam ill take a shot when i need it. Then i will add enough of the low wins or rest of it back to the mash to make up about 8 to 10 gals of mash ( i don't want to be tided to the still all day ). i have 5 gals to 5 1/2 gals of mash and the rest low wines. I continue to keep my middle hearts. If or when I have collected alot of low wine i will do a spirit run and make the cuts and put it on oak. So there are a myiad of ways to do it. The nice thing about this distilling it is personal, it is yours, what you like. you have to find out which way fits you the best.

[homestillin]

Actually RAD , I did only backset 25% to the new ferment. Had a senior moment there. What I did as far as the sugar was to pre disolve it in a separate bucket of 3 3/4 gallon room temp water. This allowed me the ability to put it on the grain right after racking to the boiler. It starting working again right away. Problem was it left me with nothing to cool my 1 1/4 gallons of backset. I had to use a bag full of ice and stir for a while to reach 70-80 deg. I need to rethink that idea I guess.

[Austin Nichols]

finally I have some that's been on oak for 3 months

You should try it after 6 months, with a couple of drops of pure maple syrup added.


OD

I will let you know in 12 days time

But it is pretty bloody good right now after the day I had, maybe I wont be up so early tomorrow.... hic

[Tuna]

After running thru this recipe once, and just added the cooled backset to the wash, the one question I had, was do you stir the existing settled corn and all the ingredients to mix it all up good when you add the backset?

I didnt know, so after getting the sugar, replaced corn, water and backset all in the fermentation bucket, I stirred it up. It all settled back out pretty fast, and is bubbling full bore this morning.

[Bull Rider]

I stir mine, there's no oxygen in the backset, or at least not much, so pulling in some O2 should help with the pending fermentation. I've used a five micron stone on straight O2 to get some fresh oxygen into the mash. Just like my all grain beer. So far no problems.


Bull.

[WalkingWolf]

Stirring up the grain bed with each generation is a big help. The grain bed will get rather compacted after you've run several (or 20) generations. As i rack off a wash I will add 1 gallon of room temp water and stir up the grain bed. I make sure to break up any of the pieces that want to clump. After this vigorous stirring I will add the cooled backset with sugar and stir it again. I will then top up with water.

[Tuna]

thanks for the clarification. Kind of what I did

[Mashy]

I ran this UJSM successfully with turbo. No, I don't use turbo anymore but I'm having problems with a slow ferment. For the first two buckets I added all ingredients, stirred well and then added a packet of Prestige whiskey yeast at 85 or so degrees. Nothing vigorous in the ferment department. About 5 days later smelled like vinegar and was still sweet. Ran this through my still anyway to get some "backset". Only got about a half inch in the bottom of a 1 gal container.

Now, I almost through out the first two buckets but figured it may be okay the next time. So I used a couple gallons of backset to melt sugar and then used a tablespoon of straight distillers yeast this time. I also started two additional buckets (total 4, 20-25L) from scratch (new flaked corn, cane sugar) and used a tablespoon of distillers yeast in these as well. No vigorous fermentation,again, but also no vinegar so I guess that's good. However I'm in day 5 and the mash is still sweet to taste and the SG is still pretty high. The bubblers are still going. I just added a teaspoon of DAP to all 4 buckets and stirred them up good. Hopefully this helps.

Very frustrating trying to fill a 5 gal barrel an inch at a time. Never had any fermentations issues until this. Thought for sure the second time would be fine. Damn it!

[Mashy]

Any suggestions on how to get these ferments going?

I woke up this morning the two outside in my insulated cabinet are doing better. The two inside (the originals) are still doing their thing too. Maybe I should just let them go another week? Seems awfully long.

[homestillin]

Mashy, I am not real sure what your fermantion problem might be. It sounds like you are doing everything right. But I have never had to add nutrient to get it running. You said it still has a vinegar smell to it. That is probably not a good sign. Could be infected. I have never experienced a vinegar smell more like a sweet/sour cream corn smell. Could be the yeast if it is old or has begun to pass on. I inch of distillate after a run also means very low abv wash. I get just over 1.5 liters of strip from 5 gals of wash. I am currently in gen 5 on mine. I started with 7 lbs. crack corn, 7 lbs. suger and 2 packs baker yeast. I slop back 25% and 7 lbs. sugar on each run and she has been happy ever since. It does take a full week for it to quit and never really bubbles hard when fermenting. Hope some one can help. I have been there myself and no how it feels. Hang in there.

[RayDean]

So I finally made it through all 47 pages of this great topic! I've got a few questions for Uncle Jesse and others that are using column/tray or flute style stills. I've noticed reading through the thread that most say not to use backset from a spirit run only from stripping runs, but what do you guys do that distill with a "one run and done" type method do with these stills? I'm nearing completion of my flute build and plan on UJSSM being my first project. Any other changes to the procedure you guys would recommend for those of us not using a pot still?

Thanks,
Raydean

[WalkingWolf]

On a "one-and-done" you still have all of the elements present in the hot slops that you will want to incorporate back into a wash via backset. With the plate-still you have wrung out more liquor than pot-still folks but that will have no consequence on backset. Use it as you would any first run backset.

[Usge]

Ode to UJSM

I ran this recipe almost exclusively (for corn) for nearly 2 years!! I had forgotten just how user friendly this recipe is and also how great it smells!! Just mixed up my first UJSM in quite a while and I'm enjoying it. I used 5lbs of white dent corn, 2lbs of malted white corn, 7lbs of sugar and EC-1118 yeast. This is a really good recipe for those who are relegated to indoor/apt living as it's quite easy to do and maintain. However, it does tend to slow down over time if you keep it going for more than a few generations. Over the years running it, I made note of a few things that helped in that regard.

The secret to keeping your UJSM going for a while is:
1) to use minimal backset over more generations...as opposed to more backset from beginning.
There's several reasons for this, and it's all been covered scattered about in this long thread, but its worth repeating in one place....backset reduces PH. That's part of the condition for this recipe to work, lower ph, and it "will" extend ferment times over generations. BUT, if it gets too low, too quickly, it can stall a ferment completely. It also has little oxygen in it having been boiled over many hours. I use 1/4 or less per volume of "fresh water"....NOT the volume of your bucket/barrel. That's important point...because anybody who's done this recipe knows...you aren't always putting in the same volume of water if you are simply topping up your bucket...because you are starting with a lot of things that can fill up, or reduce the volume of your bucket.

2) stir/thrash, or otherwise oxygenate well every generation of your UJSM.
Make sure you oxygenate between rounds. Pour your backset (and/or sugar) and water mix from bucket to bucket letting it splash/aerate. Or, you can use an aeration stone and aquarium pump pushed down into the fermenter for about 15 mins or so. At the very "least"...hack/chop/thrash it with a spoon..etc for as long as you can stand it. Once you get it foamed up good...stir it up all the way from the bottom up. Get it all "roused" good. It will restart on it's own as long as your yeast from previous round is still viable.

3) try and get as much of the beer/liquid out after each ferment so you can.
This helps with all of the above. It give you more room/volume for proper amount of fresh water...AND it keeps the abv of what's sitting on the bottom of your fermenter from getting too high and killing your yeast bed. That's something that slips through lots of times. This is a fairly high abv wash (10% or so). If you are leaving 1/4" of beer sitting on the bottom of your fermenter...then add a bunch of low oxygenated backset on top of that, lowering the PH more, then adding minimal fresh water...your ferment is gonna give up and croak in short order. Make sure you rack out as much liquid/beer as you can.

4) replace old with fresh corn little bits at a time, but pay attention to how it's affecting your overall volume.
It's easy when adding new corn without taking out enough old..for it to build up a bed in the bottom of your container/fermenter which can reduce your overall volume. There's different suggestions for how to handle this. Scooping it out when it's still on the top/floating...is a little tricky given it caps when it's fermenting..and it falls when it's done. So, rather than scoop off the cap, I just wait till the end, after I drain it off good. I scoop the top layer of corn off, and replace it with similar amount. I find that easier..just a personal preference. As to volume...you can also just use a much larger fermenter/container that will allow your bed to grow and still have room for correct volumes on top.

5) when you decided to stop/end your UJSM, use a sanitized jar and scoop a jar full of white/milky lees off the bottom, cap it, and save it in your fridge.
This has your yeast and will restart the next batch when you are ready to restart. Take it out of the fridge and let it warm to room temp, pitch it into your new fermenter. I've always felt that regardless of the yeast brand, etc., it always tastes better in subsequent ferments than it does the first time. The flavor changes over time. Once you get one you like..save it and reuse it. No sense pitching new yeast every time unless you have some problems with it.

This no cook sugar recipe is a real Godsend for people who live in tight quarters (apt/condo, etc). Its easy, very efficient (recycling rounds without having to clean out or dispose of large amounts of grain at a time, and clean equipment, etc). It smells great while it's fermenting, makes a decent yield with good corn flavors, it's just hard to go wrong. The only drawback is it tends to slow down a bit over time...taking longer in between rounds. The solution to that...is to start another one There are plenty of other sugar based wash/recipes to try as well...each with their own distinct characteristics. But, this one will always remain close to my heart...as the one I learned on. Thanks UJ!

[NcHooch]

Found some 1 year old UJSSM in the closet today....still has oak in there. I figured I leave it in the closet, but had to sample some, damn, that was good!
See ya next year my friend.

Cheers,
NChooch

[Moonshine34]

Im on my second run of UJSMM .. It's fermenting great all is good.. Im using a potstill with single runs.. Usually comes out @ 70%ABV .. Im letting it run down to around 50%abv making slow runs.. Seems like I smell strong alcohol instead of a corn smell.

On both runs im getting no corn flavor at all in my spirit.. Im not boiling it off running really slow... Making good cuts.. Is my ABV% too high that I need to temper first to get flavor or do I have to save some of the tails to blend in ? .. What am I doing wrong ?

[bradsgonetrekkin]

I've enjoyed my first summer/autumn of continous generations of fermenting and stilling UJSSM, but after 5 generations of 3 X 25 litres (stripping around 39 litres of wash each run, with around 7-8litres stripped each time) and an epic 10+ hour spirit run a couple of weekends back I have decided to pull the pin after my 6th generation finishes fermenting due to lack of time, storage vessels and the fact that I've been battling with a CM still unit . Once I have my planned potstill built, I'm going to have a play with a mix of cracked corn and rolled barley to compare flavours with the straight corn version..
So far I have 4 X 5litre demijohns with approx 65% corn likker on oak which i'll be keeping an eye on over the next 6-8 weeks.
Bottle 1 has 2 sticks of toasted american oak (toasted in foil for around 3 hours at 220 deg c)
Bottle 2 has 2 sticks of toasted recycled french oak wine staves (toasted as above)
Bottle 3 has 3 sticks of toasted american oak as above
Bottle 4 has a combo of 2 toasted american and 1 french ...................Looking forward to testing and seeing if I can notice any diffences .
Anyway, I have a few questions,
1- If I want to save some of the leftover lees from the fermenters, is it beneficial to get the all leftover corn, creamy crud, liquid etc to retain flavours, or should I be aiming for a particular component?
2- How long would it keep if I froze it?
3- With the final 39litres of gen 6 wash, I've also got around 7 or so litres of faints from my last spirit run. If I combined these and stilled, would I still need to do an extra spirit run to get decent likker?

[Uncle Jesse]

First, I'm really gratified to see how many people have used this recipe and method to learn the fine art of distillation.

To answer a recent question, after my first "sweet" run, I put everything back into the still for the next run. NOT into the fermenter. The high proof alcohol doesn't make yeast very happy. I treat all the heads/hearts/tails from the first run as feints and throw them back into the next run because I prefer the sour mash result.

When I charge my still, I put in all my feints first, then I siphon in the mash until the still is full.

Now, that's not to say you can't keep your first run hearts, but it's not sour mash at that point. It's all about experimentation after you get the process down reasonably well. There is no single right way to do it. I choose to judge your ideas by your end product.

I provided this tutorial as a bare-bones way for beginners to make a real whiskey instead of flavoring a neutral spirit.

That lactic souring really helps the end product in my opinion.

[ottis1969]

Thanks Uncle Jesse for answering my question,have not had time unitl today to reply to you. I have a 7.5gal. s.s. pot that I will be using as a pot still. I was just not sure what to do with the product you collected off of that first run. I know you have to add back to your fermenter,but did not know you add all that you collect back to your still along with your wash,but you have made that clear and thank you. My Uncle has family that does copper work and is going to get some work done. Thanks again, Ottis1969

[slinging]

Just started 5 gal of ujssm did it to the recipe except used 1 pack of fleischmann's rapid rise highly active yeast don't know if I added too much yeast or not but I guess one of ya'll will let me know I have 1 ? do I need to give it a shake every day to aerate it or just let it sit will start another 5 gal tomorrow so let me know so I can correct it thanks

[rad14701]

Just started 5 gal of ujssm did it to the recipe except used 1 pack of fleischmann's rapid rise highly active yeast don't know if I added too much yeast or not but I guess one of ya'll will let me know I have 1 ? do I need to give it a shake every day to aerate it or just let it sit will start another 5 gal tomorrow so let me know so I can correct it thanks

One packet from a three packet strip, between 4 - 7 grams, won't be too much... If anything it'll just take longer to switch from the aerobic to anaerobic phases, or from yeast colony multiplication to fermentation phases...

[slinging]

should I have only used 2 tsp out of the 1 packet and do I give it a shake everyday or leave it

[mash rookie]

Thank you Uncle Jesse for a great recipe. Thank you USGE for a great recap.

I also had slowing ferments that were not wanting to finish.

After running another batch last weekend I adjusted the ph of my backset with baking soda and oxygenated it.

I have a large oxy / propane torch. After cleaning it with alcohol, I dropped it in the hot backset and turned on the oxygen for ten minutes. It brought the temperature down pretty fast as well and I was able to get my work done quickly.

24 hours later and this batch is working harder than any before!

I am also taking this opportunity to save some backset for later use by freezing a gallon.

I LOVE THIS STUFF!

[rad14701]

should I have only used 2 tsp out of the 1 packet and do I give it a shake everyday or leave it

How big was that "packet"...??? Did you buy the 2 - 1 pound bulk brick bundle like they sell at Sam's Club...??? I use 1 - 2 tablespoons per gallon from those because it's so cheap...

[slinging]

it has 3 packs I used 1 of the 3

[slinging]

it has 3 packs I used 1 of the 3

sorry 7g per pack. should I use more .equals 1 TBS that the recipe calls for

[slinging]

should this be aerated daily????

[Ayay]

Ode to UJSM ...Thanks UJ!

Great post Usage and further thanks to UJ. Here are the answers to some key problems encountered.

[freestyletrev]

Im pretty new to distilling, and im wondering a few things.. sorry if these have been anwsered before.
When you make the mash, say 5 gallons, you distill all of it, then put about 1 1/4 gallons back into the fermenter( after being distilled),then add new corn and sugar?
--or--
do you save 1 1/4 gallons to add to the next batch, then just distill 3 3/4gallons?

[blind drunk]

I have to concur. Just the other night, after a brutal day of pulling broom and cutting back the blackberry bramble, I poured my self a shot of some of my aging UJSSM (about 16 months) and it was awesome. I like to add a bit of wheat and rye to the basic recipe. Already planning my next several ferments. I've kept all of my backset in glass carboys, just sealed with some cling wrap

[violentblue]

I do my own variation of UJSSM and it makes some very tasty results.
I'll start with the corn in a bucket and add just enough water to cover and let it sit 3-7 days to let it pre-sour. I judge by the smell how long it needs.
got to let it get past the dirty feet stage of smell before its done.
after the pre-sour I'll boil the corn to kill off the Lacto-bacteria.
I'll add the sugar to the pot of boiling corn as well.
in another pot I'll boil up some wheat germ, boiled good and hard for an hour and 1/2 just like DWWG
and add it to the hot corn.

add enough fresh cold water to bring it up to your final volume (depends on how big a batch you're doing)
Allow it to cool enough to pitch your yeast. I prefer ale yeast, but ec1118 works well, and even bakers yeast will work in a pinch.

the taste is pretty strong to stand on its own, so I'll strip the first, second and Third generation and keep back a little of the live wash from third generation to dilute the low wines a bit (about 30% wash 70% low wines) and load that into my boiler to run.
I add just enough water to my thumper to cover the inlet tube, or I'll purposely collect some of the deep tails from a stripping run and keep it for charging the thumper.

Run it just hard enough to twist.
the lacto souring is blended between 3 generations so it comes out as very subtle but adds a complexity that is quite nice. its even better barrel aged, but the white dog is good too.